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Hello everyone!

I'm Tobias Bodlund, Scripter on the Crusader Kings II team, and I bid you all welcome to this week's dev diary for Crusader kings II: Charlemagne.

Autumn is coming in Sweden but the birds are still singing, though sometimes out of tune.

Today we'll be discussing some new changes that affect how you rule your realm. Some of these things are obviously patch content, while some are locked to having the Charlemagne expansion.

The first thing we've done is to add a vassal limit. This is exactly what it sounds like - a limit to how many vassals a ruler can have without receiving penalties. Every vassal of count tier or above will count against this limit. The vassal limit will be higher for rulers of higher tiers, and for rulers with higher diplomacy skill. Another factor that increases the limit is your dynasty's prestige. You can also affect your vassal limit by changing your Centralization Law (this touches on an important new law mechanic - more on this later in this dev diary).

So what are the penalties of going over your vassal limit? Well, you will immediately get a penalty to the taxes and levies for all your vassals. This penalty increases exponentially, and if you go far enough over the limit you will get no vassal taxes or levies at all.

The second danger of being over the limit is that when your ruler dies, there is a chance of any vassal simply becoming independent instead of swearing fealty to your heir. The risk of this happening increases the higher over the limit you are. Vassals who are geographically more distant from your capital are the ones who are most likely to declare independence.

cm_dd_3_laws_2.png

We've also made a very important change to how laws depend on technology. Many laws are now unlocked by advancing your Legalism technology. Higher levels in this tech are needed to unlock higher levels of Centralization, Crown Authority, Levy and Taxation laws and Viceroy laws (again, just keep reading to find out more about this). This means that you will see a big difference in the tools available to organize your realm early game vs late game.

With these changes, Legalism no longer directly increases your demesne size limit, this modifier has been removed. Also, the short reign penalty modifier has been moved to the Majesty tech.

So, what does the Centralization Law do now? Well, firstly, it's a demesne law and so applies to your entire realm. Secondly, it has five tiers, going from fully decentralized to fully centralized. Lower centralization grants you a bonus to Vassal Limit, while high Centralization grants a bonus to Demesne Size Limit and a penalty to Vassal Limit. This presents the player with an interesting choice - do you want to focus on a larger, less centralized realm or on a stronger personal demesne but having a harder time of organizing your many vassals?

How legalism unlocks laws will be moddable to a large extent.

Now, to viceroys... With the Charlemagne DLC, it will be possible for a non-tribal emperor tier character to appoint viceroys to rule any kingdom or duchy titles that the emperor himself holds. This is effectively a lifetime governorship, where the viceroy becomes a vassal of the empire. Any landed vassal of count tier or above can be granted a viceroyalty. However, the viceroy does not own the title, but rather rules in his liege's name. When he dies, the title goes back to the liege. For all other purposes, the viceroy functions as a normal vassal. One character can hold several viceroyalties.

cm_dd3_viceroy.png

The ability to appoint viceroys is unlocked by the Legalism tech, and kingdom viceroyalties are unlocked much earlier than duchy viceroyalties.

Viceroys will gain an opinion bonus to the liege who grants the title, so should usually be quite loyal. However, should a viceroy mount a successful rebellion or otherwise become independent he will gain the granted kingdom or duchy as a permanent title.

We have also made some changes to regencies. The essence of it is that a character's regent is now more of a conscious actor, and will not automatically act in the liege's interest. A regent who dislikes you will be somewhat likely to make things difficult for you, and certain types of personality traits will also be likely to cause problems. Diplomatic actions may be blocked if the regent does not approve, for example. A friendly regent is your best bet for getting things done your way, but there are also other considerations. Any regent is likely to prefer seeing you married to someone of their own religion and culture, for example.

cm_dd3_regent.png

Since choosing your regent has now become much more important, you will be able to name a regent beforehand, via "Award Honorary Title" in a character's diplomacy interface. Your Designated Regent is officially recognized as the one chosen to take the reins if a regency is required.

In addition to the things mentioned, there are a number of smaller changes intended to make ruling your realm more interesting, and some intended to just make it easier. One example of this is the possibility for a councilmember to help you assign recently acquired titles for you if you have a lot of them.

In the final dev diary next week we will be talking about the new tribal mechanics. See you then!
 

Chamboozer

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"Now, to viceroys... With the Charlemagne DLC, it will be possible for a non-tribal emperor tier character to appoint viceroys to rule any kingdom or duchy titles that the emperor himself holds. This is effectively a lifetime governorship, where the viceroy becomes a vassal of the empire. Any landed vassal of count tier or above can be granted a viceroyalty. However, the viceroy does not own the title, but rather rules in his liege's name. When he dies, the title goes back to the liege. For all other purposes, the viceroy functions as a normal vassal. One character can hold several viceroyalties.

This is great.

I would also suggest that going over the vassal limit scale for distance, so you initially get less money and levies only from distant vassals. This will more easily simulate the huge de-jure empires like the Abbasids where their practical authority was limited in distant areas, but still strong at the center.
 

DirtyRoberto

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The vassal will become independent without any war starting and without the ruller gaining a casus belli. However, if the vassal is your de jure vassal you can still use the existing De Jure casus belli to reclaim the lands.
WTF? How is that realistic and legitimate? I want to play a historical game and not a game with arbitrary MMO-like mechanics...
 

Lord Roivas

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The barony thing only gives you 1 point each. It'll take you a while to get points like that.

The only bad thing I'm seeing so far is that centralization tab seems to eat one base demesne point from Emperors.

Right now Emperor base is 4 and you get plus 5 from max legalism. Now with Centralization giving you only 4 on max, you'll max out at 8. I personally think it should be 2 for each tier, if you're losing vassal limit from it. An 8 county Emperor isn't exactly what I'd call centralized.
 

Joel M Bridge

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Feels semi-easy to exploit:
0. Matri-marry all females of your dynasty.
1. Land dynastic baron after marrying him off to some Lustful 16 year old courtier.
2. Wait for the baron to make his wife pregnant.
3. Kill dynastic baron.
(3b. Kill the baron's child if it was a daughter and she inherited, to avoid her growing up and marrying regularly).
4. Repeat.
so gamy!!
 

Novacat

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I am late to the party... but will there be other ways to lose a viceroy position other than the death of the viceroy? I can see immortal characters potentially throwing a monkey wrench in the works.
 

Thure

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WTF? How is that realistic and legitimate? I want to play a historical game and not a game with arbitrary MMO-like mechanics...

You have to much vasalls to manage them... Of course they will became de facto independent... That's absolutly logical and realistic.
 

Teten1

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WTF? How is that realistic and legitimate? I want to play a historical game and not a game with arbitrary MMO-like mechanics...
Losing control of vassals when you are far past your ability to control them? That's unrealistic?
 

Silversweeeper

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The barony thing only gives you 1 point each. It'll take you a while to get points like that.

Well, do it with counties, then (5 points every time a count of your dynasty dies). They cannot lose it (assuming that CA disallows internal fighting) except through inheritance (which you control), and they cannot grow by attacking others. Keeping them below duke level (unless you can give them a one-county duchy like Venice or Genoa) means that they cannot give away any of the counties you give them, which makes it super-safe. Worst case, a guy from another dynasty inherits (if it was the child of a matrilinear marriage and the father (or his family) inherits), in which case you eat a tyranny modifier and handle the problem (or excommunicate them and imprison/release them until they rebel, if you can).
 

Mackus

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-Will it be possible to use separate localisation to viceroyalities?
Example: Greek viceroy king is Despot, Greek feudal king is Regus. English viceroy king is Viceroy, English feudal king is King
-Can only feudal rulers be appointed viceroys? If not, will succession be kept on inheritance, or will it revert to gavelkind?
-Will it be possible to mod in count-tier viceroys?
-Will independent feudal kings be allowed duke-tier viceroys?
-Will it be possible to mod in ex-liege getting claims on vassals that got independence?
 

IsadorBG

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The mechanic basically loses it's purpose if those claims are not made into weak claims then.

Only if the former Liege has time to press the claim (and it's "logical and realistic"). If it's a small realm chance are big that it would not survive long anyway between a big empire and many potential claimant under it and probably wrong faith neighbor.

Game is harsh to small realms around Blobs
 

theKing1988

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Only if the former Liege has time to press the claim (and it's "logical and realistic"). If it's a small realm chance are big that it would not survive long anyway between a big empire and many potential claimant and probably wrong faith neighbor.

Game is harsh to small realms around Blobs

That doesn't change the fact that it would make the mechanic more or less pointless if you get a strong claim. To really have the mechanic achieve what it is meant to achieve it should be punishing to go that much over the limit. That the newly independent county or duchy falls to another blob is just too bad, but a strong claim would be an idiotic loophole.
 
Last edited:

Darkath

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duchy viceroyalties

Can you add this from the start to the Byzantine Emperor ? IIRC that's kinda how most of the Doux were appointed. Also there should be a relationship penalty with the viceroy's heir, and other viceroys if you do not grant that heir the viceroyalty.
 

IsadorBG

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That doesn't change the fact that it would make the mechanic easily abusable if you get a strong claim. To really have the mechanic achieve what it is meant to achieve it should be punishing to go over that much over the limit. That the newly independent county or duchy falls to another blob is just too bad, but a strong claim would be an idiotic loophole.

Really the other blob is the least problem. Say the blob is christian because it's the only religion that will permit the independent state to be independent for more than a few years from the blob with their limited cb. well there's probably a good number of claimant there perhaps even landed ready to take it.

Really for the player there is no real threat and for the AI a minor setback at worst. The levies and tax penalties are the real nerf to blobs not independence.
 

Jorlem

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The vassal will become independent without any war starting and without the ruller gaining a casus belli. However, if the vassal is your de jure vassal you can still use the existing De Jure casus belli to reclaim the lands.
If the vassal is your de jure vassal, couldn't you just ask them to swear fealty?