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Hello everyone!

I'm Tobias Bodlund, Scripter on the Crusader Kings II team, and I bid you all welcome to this week's dev diary for Crusader kings II: Charlemagne.

Autumn is coming in Sweden but the birds are still singing, though sometimes out of tune.

Today we'll be discussing some new changes that affect how you rule your realm. Some of these things are obviously patch content, while some are locked to having the Charlemagne expansion.

The first thing we've done is to add a vassal limit. This is exactly what it sounds like - a limit to how many vassals a ruler can have without receiving penalties. Every vassal of count tier or above will count against this limit. The vassal limit will be higher for rulers of higher tiers, and for rulers with higher diplomacy skill. Another factor that increases the limit is your dynasty's prestige. You can also affect your vassal limit by changing your Centralization Law (this touches on an important new law mechanic - more on this later in this dev diary).

So what are the penalties of going over your vassal limit? Well, you will immediately get a penalty to the taxes and levies for all your vassals. This penalty increases exponentially, and if you go far enough over the limit you will get no vassal taxes or levies at all.

The second danger of being over the limit is that when your ruler dies, there is a chance of any vassal simply becoming independent instead of swearing fealty to your heir. The risk of this happening increases the higher over the limit you are. Vassals who are geographically more distant from your capital are the ones who are most likely to declare independence.

cm_dd_3_laws_2.png

We've also made a very important change to how laws depend on technology. Many laws are now unlocked by advancing your Legalism technology. Higher levels in this tech are needed to unlock higher levels of Centralization, Crown Authority, Levy and Taxation laws and Viceroy laws (again, just keep reading to find out more about this). This means that you will see a big difference in the tools available to organize your realm early game vs late game.

With these changes, Legalism no longer directly increases your demesne size limit, this modifier has been removed. Also, the short reign penalty modifier has been moved to the Majesty tech.

So, what does the Centralization Law do now? Well, firstly, it's a demesne law and so applies to your entire realm. Secondly, it has five tiers, going from fully decentralized to fully centralized. Lower centralization grants you a bonus to Vassal Limit, while high Centralization grants a bonus to Demesne Size Limit and a penalty to Vassal Limit. This presents the player with an interesting choice - do you want to focus on a larger, less centralized realm or on a stronger personal demesne but having a harder time of organizing your many vassals?

How legalism unlocks laws will be moddable to a large extent.

Now, to viceroys... With the Charlemagne DLC, it will be possible for a non-tribal emperor tier character to appoint viceroys to rule any kingdom or duchy titles that the emperor himself holds. This is effectively a lifetime governorship, where the viceroy becomes a vassal of the empire. Any landed vassal of count tier or above can be granted a viceroyalty. However, the viceroy does not own the title, but rather rules in his liege's name. When he dies, the title goes back to the liege. For all other purposes, the viceroy functions as a normal vassal. One character can hold several viceroyalties.

cm_dd3_viceroy.png

The ability to appoint viceroys is unlocked by the Legalism tech, and kingdom viceroyalties are unlocked much earlier than duchy viceroyalties.

Viceroys will gain an opinion bonus to the liege who grants the title, so should usually be quite loyal. However, should a viceroy mount a successful rebellion or otherwise become independent he will gain the granted kingdom or duchy as a permanent title.

We have also made some changes to regencies. The essence of it is that a character's regent is now more of a conscious actor, and will not automatically act in the liege's interest. A regent who dislikes you will be somewhat likely to make things difficult for you, and certain types of personality traits will also be likely to cause problems. Diplomatic actions may be blocked if the regent does not approve, for example. A friendly regent is your best bet for getting things done your way, but there are also other considerations. Any regent is likely to prefer seeing you married to someone of their own religion and culture, for example.

cm_dd3_regent.png

Since choosing your regent has now become much more important, you will be able to name a regent beforehand, via "Award Honorary Title" in a character's diplomacy interface. Your Designated Regent is officially recognized as the one chosen to take the reins if a regency is required.

In addition to the things mentioned, there are a number of smaller changes intended to make ruling your realm more interesting, and some intended to just make it easier. One example of this is the possibility for a councilmember to help you assign recently acquired titles for you if you have a lot of them.

In the final dev diary next week we will be talking about the new tribal mechanics. See you then!
 

illathid

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Was thinking about centralization some, and I had an idea. Feudal elective is one of the best succession types in the game with very few drawbacks. However elective realms had a hard time becoming centralized, so why not make it harder for elective realms to raise the centralization law to represent that?
 

Byzan

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now all we need is to be addressed as Imperator Semper Augustus, be crowned by our vassals as Rex Romanorum, then crowned Emperor by the Pope and 1, 2, 3; we're the Proper Western Roman Empire Reborn
 

Teten1

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And he ruled with a fair and just paw.


Aren't we gonna get a dev diary about weather? That's still a thing right?
Maybe i'm mistaken, but wasn't that included in the first dev diary?
 

J_C

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Ahh very cool, but I can't bother to read all 11 pages...:p

So can anyone tell me if gavelkind succession will affect liege's vassal limit?
i.e. super duke dies, three sons inherits. King cries, and loses all his troops and income...
 

Thure

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Emphasis mine :)

As I said... this phrase don't say much... It could also mean the patch beside the DLC... And it don't make much sense to be DLC only... The devs are angry because important gameplay elements like retuines are DLC only... And now they make viceroys DLC only? That don't make sense. And it would make it hard to make viceroys in the history files... And viceroys are a crown law. This would be the first dlc only crown law...
 

frolix42

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Vassal limit is a balance fix I've been more and more cognizant that we need and so these changes are pretty great. As it stands, from a 867 start it doesn't take me long to implement absolute crown authority. No longer!
 
Last edited:

LumberKing

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As soon as the title for this DLC was announced I had my suspicion that this would be the "Empire DLC" that everyone has been demanding for quite some time now. I think this dev diary proves my suspicion.
 

Axe99

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Haven't read the whole thread (am sure it's great, but only so many hours in the day) but the general gist of this dev diary is excellent - I'd say the vassal limit is the single most important balancing element they've introduced, and a great idea, as is the linking of structure of Government to technology. Viceroys also a great thing :).

Can we install a horse or a dog as viceroys since someone did do that in history.

This way, we could have national dogs in both HoI4 and CK2 :D.
 

LumberKing

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loup99

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Can we install a horse or a dog as viceroys since someone did do that in history.

That would be an event for lunatic rulers.
 

Scotsh

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Hmm, was just thinking of:

- retract vassalage of baronies from as many counts as possible
- create duchies for those counties (possibly the duchy holder will keep his baron vassals)

will this result in more taxes, levies for yourself without violating the vassal limit whilst weakening your dukes/kings and that without opinion penalties?
 

Damarrocarion

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I'm just curious... You're saying that the chance of vassals becoming independent after ruler dies depends on their distance from your capital and your vassal limit... It is also true for players? I mean they will be simply notified they're independent and that's it, right?

I would assume you get similar pop-up like Muslims get after successful decadence revolt. Though I would give ruler a claim on your land to subjugate it back.

It will be interesting to see starts like Alexiad and will Seljuks fracture upon death of a ruler. People have mentioned about vassal limit and will it really affect things much and quote Twitch and Abbasids as example of it. However, the Caliph on that start was apparently qualified and his statistics might reflect this, unlike in Old Gods where the Caliph is grand example of a "guy who should not have gotten anything more complicated than a toll booth to rule".

I would assume Abbasid start represents current mechanics, except that Caliph has claims to press (probably to leave Byzantines alone for a bit), fairly well. And it's better for Caliph to have subjugation claims so it will take a while for Abbasids to turn their attention to India or Byzantines.
 
Last edited:

fanoI

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A question regarding Viceroys: the title will be localizable via religion / culture? So a Byzantine Viceroy will be an Exarch, a Roman a Prefect and so on?
The Viceroy title will be revocable without penalties? It makes sense as they are holding the ruler title temporary...

Really interesting mechanic if localizable I could do good use in my mod...
 

Pecka

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well....I was pretty skeptical of Charlemagne at first, but now... Hail Tobias, the first of his name! :)

anyway, about this centralization - great idea, but the practical implementation sounds a bit weird. If I want to build huge empire, I have to decentralize it as much as possible (to have a big vassal limit)? When I have centralized empire, I have to delegate power to my viceroys. So put a big effort to improve legalism and thus main central court bureaucracy just to create big powerful domains within my empire? That sounds strange to me....centralized empire means - I have no strong local authorities to solve the local problems on local level. Just send your taxes to Rome and Imperial officials will tell you, what kind of fruits should you plant on your garden.

Other way around - what about change the plus to minus? What if better centralization would allow bigger vassal limit? You have to research legalism to maintain a big empire - or it will be just loose confederation of couple strong vassals. And, of course, your mighty vassals should revolt against your centralization effort possibly lowering the centralization down. This could make nice self-propelling process of imperial collapse. At the begging, the empire was to big. So the emperor decided to give up of his titles to decrease number of vassals. Internal struggle (e.g. succession war) resulted in decrease of centralization, so further delegation of power was necessary. Finally, those powerful magnates pressed to completely dissolve imperial power and subsequently empire itself....