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* CKII: Charlemagne Developer Diaries will be released weekly on Wednesdays from now on up to release! *

Welcome to the Charlemagne dev diaries - and above all, welcome to the 8th century!

I'm Tobias Bodlund, scripter on the Crusader Kings II team, and in this first installment of the dev diaries for CKII: Charlemagne I will be talking about the new 769 start date and how we've chosen to represent that historical period in the game.

We've added a bunch of new cultures to the game. A few of these could arguably have been present in The Old Gods already, but going back to 769 we felt we really needed to shake up the map to properly represent the changing cultural landscape of the Early Middle Ages.

sw_eur_cult.png

In Spain we have the Visigoths, and they are in the Iberian rather than the Germanic group, since the Gothic migrations are long since over and they have been living in the peninsula since the early 6th century. With time, Visigothic provinces are likely to eventually become Castilian, Catalan or Andalusian depending on location and which other religious and cultural influences they are subjected to. In northwestern Iberia we also still have the Suebi, an old Germanic people. They have their own culture shift events which may see the rise of Portuguese culture.

Looking north, we have the Franks. They are still Germanic but becoming more and more latinized. You will see them slowly turning into something we call "French"...

Other new cultures you will find are Saxons, Lombards, Picts and Somali. Also, there are no Russians yet, but instead various East Slavic peoples such as the Ilmenians, Severians and Volhynians.

We've revisited cultural dynamics in some other places as well. For example, the emergence of Norman culture is now somewhat more likely than before.

Regarding religion, the old Norse religion in the game is now referred to as Germanic. We decided to do this because with the earlier start date this religion exists well beyond Norse lands (specifically, the Saxons), and the old name also sometimes caused players to confuse it with Norse culture.

Moving further south, the Ibadi faith is now its own religion and no longer a Sunni heresy.

We've also added a new pagan religion, available only in the Charlemagne start. They are the followers of the sun-god Zun, which was historically the Zunbil dynasty in Afghanistan. They start out surrounded by Muslims and Buddhists, and this should provide an interesting and possibly quite difficult start, comparable to the Jewish starts.

And where are the Jews in 769, you ask now - you will find them in Semien in Ethiopia (sometimes referred to as Beta Israel).

religion_map_persia.png

Oh, speaking of the Norse, yes... with the new start date the Viking Age hasn't begun yet. This means that the Norse will initially not be able to launch Viking expeditions overseas. This will change the early game for them as they'll need to focus more on local affairs initially. Don't worry, though, a few decades in things will start happening for them and the continent will properly learn to fear the wrath of the Northmen.

Finally, let's look at some of the large empires in the 8th century:

In 769, the Byzantine Empire is embroiled in what historians call the "First Iconoclasm". This basically means that the emperor and patriarch (and most of the elite) follow the Iconoclast faith, where religious icons are condemned as idolatry much like in Islam. There is a choice for the emperor to either stick with Iconoclasm or renounce it (via a special decision).

Meanwhile, the Abbasids are the great blob of the 8th century. During this time, they historically ruled an area from the Indus in the east to the Maghreb in the west. Though "rule" is perhaps a misleading word in some cases. To reflect the fact that in reality they had limited control over many of their nominal vassals, we have made some of these areas independent in the game. But the Caliph still has plenty of de jure CBs and claims on those areas, so beware...

In Spain, Umayyad rule is fairly recently established, so you have an Arab Muslim dynasty ruling over mainly Visigothic Christian subjects.

europe_map.png

Then there is the Frankish Empire. After Pepin died, his sons Charlemagne and Carloman inherited a kind of joint kingship over the Franks, with each of them ruling directly over a portion of the kingdom. In the game, this means the two brothers each have a king title but also a claim on the other's title. With powerful neighbors such as the Lombards, the Umayyads and the pagan Saxons, things may get very interesting here.

As you can see, the world in 769 is quite different from later starts, with many period-defining events still to unfold. Things such as the Holy Roman Empire (yes, you can found it), Vikings, Normans and Russians are still unheard of. There aren't even that many Karlings yet (!).

The 8th century is a strange and wonderful place. We hope that you'll enjoy it.
 

Kljunas

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Oh, speaking of the Norse, yes... with the new start date the Viking Age hasn't begun yet. This means that the Norse will initially not be able to launch Viking expeditions overseas. This will change the early game for them as they'll need to focus more on local affairs initially. Don't worry, though, a few decades in things will start happening for them and the continent will properly learn to fear the wrath of the Northmen.

Will the subjugations be available from the start? If so, what will prevent Norway, Sweden and Denmark from forming almost instantly?
 

Tuerai

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Will the subjugations be available from the start? If so, what will prevent Norway, Sweden and Denmark from forming almost instantly?
- The same thing that prevents it now (nothing.
- Would you really want to remove from them a CB that every pagan ruler gets?
 

Desslok

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How about the Frisians? Has a decision been made about whether or not to include them?
 

Damarrocarion

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If he didn't say it, somebody would hop in and ask if they or any other Jewish leader is in to play. There's always somebody wanting something else even if you deem it unimportant.

Well, it has been show in in streams so far but I guess I forgot one thing. This confirms that Khazars start as Tengri in this particular start. Might have few Jews around to educate heirs or use as concubines of course for players.
 

blackchoas

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Interesting stuff, I like the idea of cultural changes over time I just hope it works out instead of being endless posts in the strange screen shots thread, its fine if weird stuff happens cause of it, it should just be the exception and not the rule. Also would be really cool if we could get some ahistorical cultures like special cultures that appear if the Norse conquer England or if Muslims conquer France

I certainly hope that there is some improvement to the break up of empires as I feel they often don't at all but I assume that will be covered later on and since you mentioned Iconoclasts it would be cool if they were given more depth as a heresy but thats kinda true for every heresy other than the Cathars
 

dav77-b

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Why are the South Slavs Christian?

Shouldn't the Zunbils be there in 867 too?

Why is Egypt completely Arabic? I think there should be a new Coptic culture instead.

What's the reasoning behind the Visigothic/Occitan distinction? It looks a bit arbitrary to me.

Where there really that many Germanic people in Italy and Galicia (and France)? The Suebi in particular look really out of place.

Is Tengrism really a fitting religion for the Alans?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Period
( I suggest the german version which has more details and much more information. ). Most modern west european countries have their origin in the germanic migration period ( Instead being a roman province ).
 

Damarrocarion

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As said before, Zunbils ought to have territory in ToG start, even if doomed. With supposedly new cultures coming, do we get Khitans to later date? It would make for a potentially interesting start.
 

Ols

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Give the Alans a Pagan religion of their own or a Zoroastrian heresy (given that they had an Iranic religion with similarities to the Zoroastrian pantheon). Let the Khazars have a decision to become Jewish, otherwise it feels unlikely to happen. Please let there be a few Zunbil counties left in 867, please stick some Slavic Pagan areas in Croatia, Avaria, Serbia and Bulgaria, and please make sure Manicheanism is fleshed out sufficiently if some Altaic peoples are going to have it.

Also, as far as I'm aware, there shouldn't be Breton culture in Nantes. It should be Frankish.
 

IsadorBG

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Looking north, we have the Franks. They are still Germanic but becoming more and more latinized. You will see them slowly turning into something we call "French"...

Why do you hate me paradox ? *sigh* guess I'll have to live with the fact that norman and occitan aren't considered as a part of the french culture anymore. :(

And North Africa is in dire need of love. Dat huge green berberic blob was already bad in the old god making 2 completly different cultures (maghrebi arabics and berbers) as a unique culture but it's 3 cultures that will be included (apparently roman civilisation never existed in maghreb it's a 100% european thing).

My eyes will continue to hurt me everytimes I see Tunisia being depicted as "berber" even tough that culture was long dead in the region even before Rome was a thing.
 

TL_

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A relief to finally see a dev diary. Only a little bit of new information in this one, but it's something. Hopefully we get some substantial information on pre-feudal societies soon, but I guess they're probably still working out the details for balance which is why they've shied away.

I'm looking forward to building up Old Prussia.
 

Kljunas

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Period
( I suggest the german version which has more details and much more information. ). Most modern west european countries have their origin in the germanic migration period ( Instead being a roman province ).

I know about the migrations but I thought these tribes tended to assimilate to the local populations rather quickly, rather than spreading Germanic cultures over such large areas.

I could maybe understand this setup if the game took place in the 6th century or something but it looks very weird in 769
 

Ols

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I know about the migrations but I thought these tribes tended to assimilate to the local populations rather quickly, rather than spreading Germanic cultures over such large areas.

I could maybe understand this setup if the game took place in the 6th century or something but it looks very weird in 769

I think it's because the low level aristocracy (minor landholders, mayors, bishops and the like) are Frankish. Not that Vulgar Latin isn't spoken and understood there, but rather than they couldn't unite under that banner and would always be deferential to a Germanic speaking landholder. It's not hugely accurate, but prevents a bizzare French revolt from Frankish rule that wouldn't have happened historically. As the minor landholders start speaking a Romance language, the shift is depicted.
 

Flamestalker

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Looking good! One quibble though. While I realize that game play trumps historical reality, I wish you'd work on mechanics to naturally break up a giant blob like the Abbasids. You can break up empires all you want at the start date, but blobs will form as the game evolves (like Francia and ERE). You need a way for them to crumble.
Agreed, just adding a vassal-limit probably isn't enough to keep the blobs down. They really need to add a better way for large Kingdoms and Empires to fall apart and stay apart. Currently the Abbasids tend to always bounce back no matter how hard they are hit because they can hold on to their Empire title for ever, there needs to be a way for titles to be destroyed if you lose to much power and influence.

How about the Frisians? Has a decision been made about whether or not to include them?
It would be kind of wierd if they didn't put them in. Frisian is different enough from Saxon in my book and they would also be large enough to add in the game, having atleast 6 provinces and posibly a few more which would make them the same size if not larger than Breton, Welsh, Serbian and the new Suebi cultures. Also if the added Roman just for the history files i dont see why they cant add Frisian.

Also would be really cool if we could get some ahistorical cultures like special cultures that appear if the Norse conquer England or if Muslims conquer France
I would love this
 

IsadorBG

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I think it's because the low level aristocracy (minor landholders, mayors, bishops and the like) are Frankish. Not that Vulgar Latin isn't spoken and understood there, but rather than they couldn't unite under that banner and would always be deferential to a Germanic speaking landholder. It's not hugely accurate, but prevents a bizzare French revolt from Frankish rule that wouldn't have happened historically. As the minor landholders start speaking a Romance language, the shift is depicted.

Frankish rule wasn't like the norman or other germanic rules... . The romance subject had the same right that their germanic neighbor and were all considered Franks. Already at that period romance speaking franks could be found in the army, the church and probably in the aristocracy altough it was still dominated by germans.

That huge Frankish blob is there to represent that I guess.

"French revolt agains Frankish rule". :wacko::mellow::(
 

Ruwaard

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Glad to see this Dev Diary! :)

I like others here, have a few remarks. First of all not all the Franks latinized, this happened to most of the Franks inside Neustria, but those within Austrasia remained Germanic. These Franks also need a culture shift. Germanic Frankish can roughly be split in two groups (made up of a variety of dialects), due to the fact that southern (and eastern) dialects were affected by the High German Consonant shift, but the northern (and western) dialects (Low Frankish) weren't (the ancestor of Dutch).
Still I do like how those Franks, which did latinize were handled.

@ Duarte: perhaps (seems likely to me) Suebi, like Visigothic is in the Iberian group?
So even in those provinces Frankish should probably shift to Dutch or become German.