* CKII: Charlemagne Developer Diaries will be released weekly on Wednesdays from now on up to release! *

Welcome to the Charlemagne dev diaries - and above all, welcome to the 8th century!

I'm Tobias Bodlund, scripter on the Crusader Kings II team, and in this first installment of the dev diaries for CKII: Charlemagne I will be talking about the new 769 start date and how we've chosen to represent that historical period in the game.

We've added a bunch of new cultures to the game. A few of these could arguably have been present in The Old Gods already, but going back to 769 we felt we really needed to shake up the map to properly represent the changing cultural landscape of the Early Middle Ages.

sw_eur_cult.png

In Spain we have the Visigoths, and they are in the Iberian rather than the Germanic group, since the Gothic migrations are long since over and they have been living in the peninsula since the early 6th century. With time, Visigothic provinces are likely to eventually become Castilian, Catalan or Andalusian depending on location and which other religious and cultural influences they are subjected to. In northwestern Iberia we also still have the Suebi, an old Germanic people. They have their own culture shift events which may see the rise of Portuguese culture.

Looking north, we have the Franks. They are still Germanic but becoming more and more latinized. You will see them slowly turning into something we call "French"...

Other new cultures you will find are Saxons, Lombards, Picts and Somali. Also, there are no Russians yet, but instead various East Slavic peoples such as the Ilmenians, Severians and Volhynians.

We've revisited cultural dynamics in some other places as well. For example, the emergence of Norman culture is now somewhat more likely than before.

Regarding religion, the old Norse religion in the game is now referred to as Germanic. We decided to do this because with the earlier start date this religion exists well beyond Norse lands (specifically, the Saxons), and the old name also sometimes caused players to confuse it with Norse culture.

Moving further south, the Ibadi faith is now its own religion and no longer a Sunni heresy.

We've also added a new pagan religion, available only in the Charlemagne start. They are the followers of the sun-god Zun, which was historically the Zunbil dynasty in Afghanistan. They start out surrounded by Muslims and Buddhists, and this should provide an interesting and possibly quite difficult start, comparable to the Jewish starts.

And where are the Jews in 769, you ask now - you will find them in Semien in Ethiopia (sometimes referred to as Beta Israel).

religion_map_persia.png

Oh, speaking of the Norse, yes... with the new start date the Viking Age hasn't begun yet. This means that the Norse will initially not be able to launch Viking expeditions overseas. This will change the early game for them as they'll need to focus more on local affairs initially. Don't worry, though, a few decades in things will start happening for them and the continent will properly learn to fear the wrath of the Northmen.

Finally, let's look at some of the large empires in the 8th century:

In 769, the Byzantine Empire is embroiled in what historians call the "First Iconoclasm". This basically means that the emperor and patriarch (and most of the elite) follow the Iconoclast faith, where religious icons are condemned as idolatry much like in Islam. There is a choice for the emperor to either stick with Iconoclasm or renounce it (via a special decision).

Meanwhile, the Abbasids are the great blob of the 8th century. During this time, they historically ruled an area from the Indus in the east to the Maghreb in the west. Though "rule" is perhaps a misleading word in some cases. To reflect the fact that in reality they had limited control over many of their nominal vassals, we have made some of these areas independent in the game. But the Caliph still has plenty of de jure CBs and claims on those areas, so beware...

In Spain, Umayyad rule is fairly recently established, so you have an Arab Muslim dynasty ruling over mainly Visigothic Christian subjects.

europe_map.png

Then there is the Frankish Empire. After Pepin died, his sons Charlemagne and Carloman inherited a kind of joint kingship over the Franks, with each of them ruling directly over a portion of the kingdom. In the game, this means the two brothers each have a king title but also a claim on the other's title. With powerful neighbors such as the Lombards, the Umayyads and the pagan Saxons, things may get very interesting here.

As you can see, the world in 769 is quite different from later starts, with many period-defining events still to unfold. Things such as the Holy Roman Empire (yes, you can found it), Vikings, Normans and Russians are still unheard of. There aren't even that many Karlings yet (!).

The 8th century is a strange and wonderful place. We hope that you'll enjoy it.
 

SBolshevik

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And the South Slavs are still Christian.
Thanks for ignoring us, Paradox.
 

iron0037

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Looking good! One quibble though. While I realize that game play trumps historical reality, I wish you'd work on mechanics to naturally break up a giant blob like the Abbasids. You can break up empires all you want at the start date, but blobs will form as the game evolves (like Francia and ERE). You need a way for them to crumble.
 

Rognvaldr19

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Love it, really like that Ibadism is it's own religion now, can't wait to see it in action!

Really liking to hear about that Iconoclast decision also.

Looking good! One quibble though. While I realize that game play trumps historical reality, I wish you'd work on mechanics to naturally break up a giant blob like the Abbasids. You can break up empires all you want at the start date, but blobs will form as the game evolves (like Francia and ERE). You need a way for them to crumble.

Isn't that what centralisation is suppose to do? :huh

>First dev diary and this feature has not yet been added
>Feature has been confirmed not to exist

Don't worry, pretty sure he's going to complain still even if his little niches get sorted for him.
 
Last edited:

EldarPanic

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I hope they will look on the threads we make and maybe fix some of these errors.Anyway keep em comin.
PS: Will manichaeism get some special events now ?
 

NoUsernamesHere

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In northwestern Iberia we also still have the Suebi, an old Germanic people. They have their own culture shift events which may see the rise of Portuguese culture.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but this is complete and utter hogwash.

Looking north, we have the Franks. They are still Germanic but becoming more and more latinized. You will see them slowly turning into something we call "French"...

Again, this fails spectacularly at representing the historical situation. Frankish never extended that far outside of Austrasian territory, and it never "latinized"; the linguistic border between the Latins and the Franks has remained more or less the same to this day. The Dutch and the West Central German dialects are all descendants of the Frankish language.

Regarding religion, the old Norse religion in the game is now referred to as Germanic.

That's good.
 

ekorovin

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Weird choice for pre-Russian cultures. Assuming there's only three of them I would go with Ilmenians, Polyans and Krivichs - big, well established and well researched tribal unions, rather with small and obscure Volynians, who were very quickly assimilated and even more obscure Severians, the only interesting thing about them is their possible Iranian descent, but that's a fringe theory.

And can you please rename the abominations of Dregovichia and Radimichia in at least Dregovia and Radimia?
 

SBolshevik

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>First dev diary and this feature has not yet been added
>Feature has been confirmed not to exist

:huh:
A number of simple database changes which take less than 5 minutes are not a feature, they're work a modder can do with no effort.

Don't worry, pretty sure he's going to complain still even if his little niches get sorted for him.
>religion of half of a large peninsula
>niche

Yeah, I am 140% sure that you would find it inappropriate if 769 Scandinavia was half-Christian.
 

Damarrocarion

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In 769, the Byzantine Empire is embroiled in what historians call the "First Iconoclasm". This basically means that the emperor and patriarch (and most of the elite) follow the Iconoclast faith, where religious icons are condemned as idolatry much like in Islam. There is a choice for the emperor to either stick with Iconoclasm or renounce it (via a special decision).

Will Orthodox heresies get some new flavor or is Emperors decision only thing which is different?

We've also added a new pagan religion, available only in the Charlemagne start. They are the followers of the sun-god Zun, which was historically the Zunbil dynasty in Afghanistan. They start out surrounded by Muslims and Buddhists, and this should provide an interesting and possibly quite difficult start, comparable to the Jewish starts.

Could you perhaps look making some changes to ToG start since historically they were around until 870. They could work well to whittle down event troops that Saffarids get and tone down the all-conquering blob a bit if they are defensive pagans. Biggest hurdle for them seems to be Shahi if they go for him bit later and he can whip out the Hindu holy order to save himself.

And where are the Jews in 769, you ask now - you will find them in Semien in Ethiopia (sometimes referred to as Beta Israel).

I don't think Semien being in game is news anymore...

In the game, this means the two brothers each have a king title but also a claim on the other's title. With powerful neighbors such as the Lombards, the Umayyads and the pagan Saxons, things may get very interesting here.

How will Crusade triggers function since Braunchweig is held by pagans at the start?

Moving further south, the Ibadi faith is now its own religion and no longer a Sunni heresy.

This is nice. Can you tell how much it differs from other sects of Islam, such not having decadence, different succession, etc? Can they be holy warred by other Muslims as typically they get annihilated by the northern Muslims in short order. What will be it's heresy?

And as said, below, Dalmatian coast and Slavs might need some love.

Anyway, only thing new thing here seems to be mention of Iconoclasm, since Ibadi was supposed to be done earlier already. Bit disappointed :(
 
Last edited:

Davisx3m

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Interesting!"
 

__schon__

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So far so good for me :)
 

MarkS00N

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Anyway, only thing new thing here seems to be mention of Iconoclasm, since Ibadi was supposed to be done earlier already. Bit disappointed :(
For how it was written (little new information, several mistake pointed out by poster still exist), I wouldn't surprised if this DD is composed at last minutes (well, maybe more than minutes but still) because this week MP stream failed to launch...
There is even no mention whether the DD will be weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly...

Hope next DDs going to be the 'real' DD...
 

Kljunas

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Why are the South Slavs Christian?

Shouldn't the Zunbils be there in 867 too?

Why is Egypt completely Arabic? I think there should be a new Coptic culture instead.

What's the reasoning behind the Visigothic/Occitan distinction? It looks a bit arbitrary to me.

Where there really that many Germanic people in Italy and Galicia (and France)? The Suebi in particular look really out of place.

Is Tengrism really a fitting religion for the Alans?
 

Damarrocarion

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For how it was written (little new information, several mistake pointed out by poster still exist), I wouldn't surprised if this DD is composed at last minutes (well, maybe more than minutes but still) because this week MP stream failed to launch...
There is even no mention whether the DD will be weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly...

Hope next DDs going to be the 'real' DD...

This :happy:
 

Talq

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Heh, sooking is starting early.

Its DD1 - its going to cover the most major point which is the new time period. What were you expecting? Immediately launching into whatever area interests you personally?

I don't think Semien being in game is news anymore...

If he didn't say it, somebody would hop in and ask if they or any other Jewish leader is in to play. There's always somebody wanting something else even if you deem it unimportant.
 
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