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Conclave Dev Diary #1

Hi folks, I hope you have all had a nice and relaxing holiday! However, just in case you didn’t, let me take the edge off your existential angst with some soothing talk about the next expansion for Crusader Kings II; a little thing we eventually decided to call Conclave...

As you know, most of CK2’s expansions have “widened” the gameplay by unlocking new regions of the map and making various religions playable. You can now start the game in widely different cultural spheres for a great variety of different experiences; “Fifty Shades of Dark”, if you will. Meanwhile, we have gradually improved the core gameplay in patches (e.g. the technology system), but rarely in any radical way. Whenever we did try to “deepen” the core gameplay in an expansion, it often turned out to be a mistake: The Retinue mechanic of Legacy of Rome should, for example, have been a part of the base game so we could have kept building upon it.

Even so, it is high time that we addressed some of the major shortcomings of the strategy game that underpins the RPG experience. In particular, CK2 suffers from a kind of inverse difficulty progression; it is hard in the beginning and easy in the mid-to-late game. This is a great shame, because one of the main points of the whole feudal hierarchy mechanic - the need to rely on vassals - was to make it hard to maintain stable large Realms. So, my first and foremost intention with Conclave was to increase the challenge of the mid-to-late game. This was the general plan of action:

  • Reduce the “positive opinion inflation” of vassals vs their liege. (We ended up cutting many important positive opinion modifiers in half.)
  • Highlight the most powerful vassals by making them strongly desire a Council seat.
  • Give the Council more power without reducing player agency. (You are free to disregard the Council’s suggestions, but this will have ramifications on Factions. More on this later...)
  • Introduce Infamy and Coalitions against aggressively expanding Realms.
  • Improve the alliance mechanic to make it a more intentional choice. (A royal marriage is now simply a non-aggression pact. Alliance is the second step, but still requires a marriage.)
  • Improve the diplomatic AI in order to contain “blobs” (with the help of the above Alliance and Coalition systems.)
  • Bring the military AI to a whole new level.
  • Make it harder to quickly win wars through one or two major engagements. (Hence, we reduced the bloodiness of battles overall, introduced “shattered retreats” and made armies reinforce in friendly territory.)
Crusader Kings II - Conclave - Obligations.jpg


Thus, the features of Conclave and the accompanying patch are a combination of internal and external measures to make blobbing harder. This intention had ripple effects on other mechanics. For example, malcontents now tend to gang up into fewer but more powerful Factions, and we reworked the Law Screen while we were adding the new Council Power laws.

Crusader Kings II - Conclave - Council.jpg


We also took this opportunity to address an unrelated weakness in the game, namely the education of children. If you have the expansion, that whole experience should now be more interesting…

That’s all for now, stay tuned for the details!
 
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Redwulf_Storm

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Thank you so much Crusader Kings team. This is just what I wanted: A harder game after I became powerful...now maybe I will actually play more than two or three centuries per game. Really looking forward to more of a challenge, and here's hoping very hard is now truly very hard! Thank you for your work! :)
 
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Rags17

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Rather than having a regent, which in this game is somewhat disastrous right now, vassals should just be more "rambunctious" when their liege is not physically within the realm for extended periods, whether on council missions for his liege, leading troops, on pilgrimage, etc. For example, a crusading king should be more susceptible to problems back home, like Prince John trying to consolidate his own power in King Richard's long-term absence. The difference between a pilgrimage (regent assigned) and crusading (no regent) is an odd contradiction, but should be resolved in favor of fewer regencies, not more.

I also think it is kind of silly that councilors are physically located where the mission is being performed like they are some kind of lackey or messenger boy. Maybe they should just be physically located in their liege's capital when they are on missions, especially now that the council will have a more substantial role. Which in the scheme I suggested would mean that the councilor's own vassals would be more difficult to manage during those times since a councilor in his liege's capital would not be in his own realm.

That's brilliant ! Something like "Liege is way in the same Region, Liege is away in an adjacent region and Liege is Far Away (eg Crusading in Jerusalem)". There could be a flat opinion malus, say -5, -10 and -15, plus ever increasing risk of factions springing up, plots hatching etc.

While the cat's away the mice will play !
 

Lord_P

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Such strange hostility towards this expansion... In my honest opinion the mere sales pitch of this expansion is better than every expansion since RoI... especially Charlemagne (ew).
 
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Drake_Hound

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I am happy for the new CK2 fans this expansion.

Sadly as said before I don't see any new mechanics that makes jump wth joy.
Partly is my own fault for loving this game so much that am trying to get as much out it as I could with modding.

Now I do love to have new mechanics or factions or something that makes me go wow. Excited :(
Even if unlocking mercenary again or playable theologie or inland republics or council housings (for those not landed like forts with a small levy) something wow that makes me jump with joy.

Even if you guys can't ad it unlock some stuff or finish the province screen so I can ad houses or other places beside fort and tradepost.
Yes I was thinking of adding a raidable brothel :p but that is something else ;)

Playable baronies for adventurers :p or even courtiers (aside from clunky workaround to give them counties landless titles)
I don't know something that excist already , am not asking you guys to support nomad merchant republics :p

Give me something small to make wow like.
 
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Asakhra

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  • Make it harder to quickly win wars through one or two major engagements. (Hence, we reduced the bloodiness of battles overall, introduced “shattered retreats” and made armies reinforce in friendly territory.)

Isn't this how most wars of the time were won, though? A few major battles, deciding the entire outcome of the war? Sieges were fought, of course, but it was reasonably common for fortified towns to just surrender rather than trying to withstand invaders if the war was already going badly.
 
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Knotz

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Sadly as said before I don't see any new mechanics that makes jump wth joy.
Partly is my own fault for loving this game so much that am trying to get as much out it as I could with modding.

This is literally the entirety of a very much you problem.

I, for one, AM jumping with wow.
 
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Drake_Hound

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This is literally the entirety of a very much you problem.

I, for one, AM jumping with wow.


And I am happy for you, like I am for others who haven't gotten to the map painting stages yet.
And am happy that women players can now select equality without modding and other features I already have or had without the fancy UI.

Do you see me talk people down cause of there wishes? I am genuine happy for those new players that they approach the map painting stages with a sense of challenge.
 
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Mixxer5

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Reduce the “positive opinion inflation” of vassals vs their liege. (We ended up cutting many important positive opinion modifiers in half.)


Oh, wow. So You actually do read forum topics :p Now, You should do something with this great gap between successful small states having negligible amounts of piety and prestige versus empires falling apart, but giving ruler enough prestige to make him "the great" (and nickname is not an issue!).
 

Thure

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And you do need to avoid having a global variable that ignores religion, though I'm actually looking forward to coreligionists disliking those rulers who abuse religion to expand. Which is not unrealistic at all, the opposite even. But realistically there should be less perceived infamy for expanding into 'infidel' land than 'fidel'.

Tell this Castille... They were not happy about Leon expanding into Taifa territory. So Castille allied with the Taifas against Leon. It's more about danger than about religion (And I think 'threat' would be a better term for 'Infamy' in this case).

And I am happy for you, like I am for others who haven't gotten to the map painting stages yet.
And am happy that women players can now select equality without modding and other features I already have or had without the fancy UI.

Do you see me talk people down cause of there wishes? I am genuine happy for those new players that they approach the map painting stages with a sense of challenge.

I'm not a new player and I like this expansion very much. It was allways asked to expand internal politics.And now we get it.
 
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Tagora

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What an utter disappointment. Quite literally the only dlc I will never purchase. It only saddens me to realize that I'll have to avoid the patch, too, and possibly lose access to newer versions of mods that integrate the update. Esp @ shattered armies, annoying and not historically accurate one bit. Basically all the reasons why I played ck2 over eu4 are going away.
 
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shulima

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I also think it is kind of silly that councilors are physically located where the mission is being performed like they are some kind of lackey or messenger boy. Maybe they should just be physically located in their liege's capital when they are on missions, especially now that the council will have a more substantial role. Which in the scheme I suggested would mean that the councilor's own vassals would be more difficult to manage during those times since a councilor in his liege's capital would not be in his own realm.

I think it comes from the fact that court mechanics are the same for a baron and an emperor, while in reality, a baron's spymaster would likely take a journey to Constantinople to snoop around, but a king's would have his own spy network and pull the strings from the comfort of the court. Same with any other council position, really.
 
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Tell this Castille... They were not happy about Leon expanding into Taifa territory. So Castille allied with the Taifas against Leon. It's more about danger than about religion (And I think 'threat' would be a better term for 'Infamy' in this case).



I'm not a new player and I like this expansion very much. It was allways asked to expand internal politics.And now we get it.

That example is fairly local though (Shared borders between everyone involved). The showcased example we've seen so far is Qarakhanids allying with the Arabs and Georgia against the Seljuqs, which is basically complete BS. First of all, all 3 are way too far away to care or do anything about attacks on each other (I am aware of the fact that real-life actual distance apparently does not exist in CK2 Thure). And the Muslims would certainly not care one bit what happened to a Christian state when it wasn't at least of similar power to them. And Georgia in the 1070'ies and 1080'ies were a poor and weak country, in crisis.
 
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TheDungen

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That means nothing in CK2.
Historical accurace? Well it's not needed but having heredetary council membership and the council voting the the emperor actually modells the post golden bull HRE better than kings voting, you can have any number of kings the council is like the electors a set number.