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CO Word of the Week #4

In the last Word of the Week, I touched upon the frequency of the expected fixes for Cities: Skylines II. For the last few weeks, we’ve been focusing on performance improvements and bug fixes at a rapid pace. As we’re continuing to work on the improvements we’ll adjust the pace of the updates slightly so we won’t see a new patch every week going forward but will have a bit longer cadence between them. We have made it through the quicker fixes and we’re now digging into the ones that require a bit more work. The next patch is not yet scheduled as it has performance improvements pending that we absolutely want to include in it.

The priorities for the team at Colossal Order are the following:

1. Performance improvements
Specifically, we are working on the level of detail models for the assets. This includes both adding missing LODs and improving the existing ones to improve the GPU performance. It might take more than one patch to address all of them, but we’ll roll out the first fixes as soon as possible. Following the asset and LOD fixes, we’ll work on improvements to CPU performance. This means focusing on the CPU stutters and simulation performance to improve simulation speed and smooth experience while scaling up the size of your cities.​
2. Bug fixing
We continue to go through your bug reports and have logged around 100 reproducible issues that have been moved to the team to look into. There are another 100 reports that we are still investigating that require more information and a bunch of duplicates, some of which add valuable information so we’ll go through all of them. We are also checking suggestions for improvement or new features, but these requests are currently at a lower priority.​
While the forum is the best place to report issues, our community team also keeps an eye on discussions outside of the forum so we can gather relevant information for the development team. Fixing gameplay bugs and issues is a high priority for us, and these can be anything from bigger overhauls of systems that are not functioning as intended to the smallest of annoyances.​
3. Editor/Modding support
The modding Beta group is testing the map editor and we’ll improve it based on their feedback before releasing it. Especially the placement of water on the map is under review since it’s currently too complicated. The UI will also receive a bit more love as it’s really difficult to find the available assets that can be placed on the map. I’ll keep you updated on the progress of the Editor and code modding and their release schedule, but the performance and bugs need to be sorted out first.​


Where we are right now
Talking about sorting, let’s talk about the Mail Service. This is a good example of a bigger overhaul caused by a few critical bugs resulting in the entire system behaving undesirably. We identified that the mail sent to the residents of the city, whether it be a citizen, a company, or a city service, is not delivered as it should. One culprit is the Post Sorting Facility as the mail is sorted in an erratic way, which makes me wonder what they are actually doing there if it’s not to sort the mail. The other issue is the Post Office vans that only seem to be collecting the mail instead of ever delivering it. Let’s see if we can get the light-fingered mail personnel under control! All jokes aside, now that these bugs have been identified and are being fixed we’ll have to test the entire system to see if it requires a rebalance. Therefore fixing the bugs takes time as we need possibly multiple QA rounds to make sure it’s working as it is supposed to.

Another issue we’re investigating on the gameplay side is the pathfinding regarding the Citizens’ ability to reserve housing even with no connection to the city. It kind of makes sense that one makes a rental agreement before moving in, so personally I wasn’t too worried about the fact that a house is assigned to a citizen when it’s being built. However, the problem appears with the companies as the citizen that has a rental agreement may also accept a job even if they have never made it to the city to begin with. So a Citizen stuck at the border of the city with no access to their house or their workplace is basically reserving those until the Citizen is deemed a lost cause and deleted from existence. We’ll look to improve this behaviour in a way that is more understandable and there’s a clear cut between the citizens that have made it to the city and those that have not.

We’re also looking at reports about export and distribution of goods in the city. Like mail, these require a deep dive to determine what is working as it should and what is not. I don’t have any details to share yet as we’re still digging into the different reports, but I wanted to let you know we haven’t missed the concerns you have raised. More on those next time!

Once the PC version is where we want it to be, we will be focusing on the console release and DLC content. We are committed to bringing the marketed DLC content to you, but it will not be landing in the originally promoted schedule. The first Asset Pack, Beach Properties, has been worked on by our artists’ and our outsourcing partner, but we’ll only implement them after the asset fix and performance work are completed to our satisfaction. I apologize for the delay, but we must not rush new content out before the base is ready for it. This also stands for the Content Creator Packs and Radio stations. Stay tuned for more information on these later!

Last Thursday we released the last weekly hotfix and it included a bunch of fixes, all of which can be found in the patch notes, but I want to highlight a few of them. The patch included a fix for the stuck “Garbage Piling Up” notifications, which didn’t clear properly after the previous fixes to the garbage collection. Now citizens will finally recognize that their bins are empty. We also took another step towards solving the issue where texture resolution drops significantly so you should see it pop up less often, though the work is still ongoing as some cases still remain. Lastly, but definitely not least, we resolved an issue that caused saves to load to a black screen when playing offline, bringing up some bad memories for some of our players. Like its predecessor, Cities: Skylines II can be played offline, so thank you for bringing this issue to light.

That’s it for this week, I’ll keep you posted!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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A big problem is, CO has not delivered what was promised. Not in gameplay and not in graphics.
I see a big discrepancy between CO and the majority of buyers in their perception of the quality of the game.
The performance problems are on top of that!
 
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Another issue we’re investigating on the gameplay side is the pathfinding regarding the Citizens’ ability to reserve housing even with no connection to the city. It kind of makes sense that one makes a rental agreement before moving in, so personally I wasn’t too worried about the fact that a house is assigned to a citizen when it’s being built. However, the problem appears with the companies as the citizen that has a rental agreement may also accept a job even if they have never made it to the city to begin with. So a Citizen stuck at the border of the city with no access to their house or their workplace is basically reserving those until the Citizen is deemed a lost cause and deleted from existence. We’ll look to improve this behaviour in a way that is more understandable and there’s a clear cut between the citizens that have made it to the city and those that have not.
Oh good, because this one is annoying. They take the jobs, which makes the business function as though it has workers.
 
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I asked this last week, but would really appreciate some clarification; for the Region Packs, have those assets not already been imported into the game? From the trailer it looks like those assets are already importable into the game. I realize there's a difference between dev imports and the coming asset import tool, but my question is this; if the asset packs are far enough along and already importable into the game, can we PLEASE have that release prior to PDX mods or the editor so that we can at least have some variety in buildings?

If the answer is no, why are you showing the assets in-game in the trailers already if that's not the case? In that context it would feel very deceptive and may have contributed to folks thinking that the mod tools were further along than they actually are...
 
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A big problem is, CO has not delivered what was promised. Not in gameplay and not in graphics.
I see a big discrepancy between CO and the majority of buyers in their perception of the quality of the game.
The performance problems are on top of that!
Why is that a problem? Its a fact. But it is what it is and they are working hard to fix it.
 
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While the forum is the best place to report issues, our community team also keeps an eye on discussions outside of the forum so we can gather relevant information for the development team.

Just want to give a thanks / appreciation for this detail. There's a lot of interesting discussions and deep insights being found by players both here and in communites like Reddit that gets to the heart of what some people find interesting and miss from the game as it currently is :) Taking a long-term perspective, it's things like these that's really going to matter for the game. And something many large companies don't bother to ever do.
 
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This is the communication I have been waiting for 2,5 weeks now.

Looking forward to all those gameplay system fixes. I have put the game down and went back to CS1 and Anno 1800 because I play games for the gameplay and these issues are too big to ignore atm.

Hopefully these things are at least fixed before the holidays.

Postponing DLC and packs makes sense. As long as the gameplay and performance foundations are not 100 percent solid there is no point building on top of them.

Still this will remain one of the most disappointing releases of the past years in gaming for me, worse than other offenders that came before. U did a lot of hype building but really didn’t delivered at all and I hope you learned a valuable lesson here for future game and DLC releases. U know this game should be labelled ‘early access’ with a 10 euro price drop until 1.0 is ready.
 
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Thanks to all of you at CO for your hard work <3

I know that you guys are working so hard to keep up with requests from us.
But i see you guys try a lot.

The truth is, yes the game is not perfect.
But the game is also amazing at places i was not expecting at all. This game had a great potential and i think you guys took the right decision to release before perfection.

Anyways, people will always complain, we are humains lmao.

Take care,
Dapho999
 
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Hello @co_martsu,

wow this is an extensive blog post. Thanks a lot for writing it up. It really helps to get a much better sense of what is happening behind the closed curtains and I'm happy about every glimpse I can get.

I'm happy to hear that you're working on CPU performance improvements as well as GPU performance improvements. In the past I've argued that in the current state GPU optimization is really the most important, but I am seeing quite significant simulation speed slowdowns in my own cities so I'm taking all the optimization I can get. Also I'd like to add that I quite appreciate how responsive the game still feels even when FPS are low (outside of stutters).

I'm REALLY happy to hear that you're actively working on the post sorting bug. It's currently the biggest gameplay issue I'm having in my own cities because of its happiness impact and it's quite challenging to work around that. Maybe you could add a toggle in settings that turns off the impact of certain systems (like mail sorting) on citizens happiness in the meantime?

Thank you very much for directly communicating your priorities and things you're working on. Thank you to the team for their hard work they definitely are putting in.

Looking forward to next week's post already to hear about your progress.
 
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A big problem is, CO has not delivered what was promised. Not in gameplay and not in graphics.
I see a big discrepancy between CO and the majority of buyers in their perception of the quality of the game.
The performance problems are on top of that!
CO was always clear even before release. They are a very small team and they did much better then those big companies out there.

The gameplay is more then fine. Lots of stuff to do. Maybe not like CS1 with mods but close to it.

Graphics not great but they are ok, i have 200k pop, high settings, 3060 ti, 30fps.
it's more then okay, its not a fps you dont need 60. Also just tweak the settings and its gonna work.

Be nice, and give them a break.
 
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Thank you for your hard work, Team! You'are doing great, keep it that way. I know this must be hard hearing from community about dissatisfaction and still trying to work with passion to make them happy. I hope that many of them will appreciate it after time.
 
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I would appriciate it, if the CO devs would be a bit more humble regarding the state of the game, but in general things seem to go in the right direction.

Hoping to see more bugfixes soon, until then, the best of luck.
 
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Another issue we’re investigating on the gameplay side is the pathfinding regarding the Citizens’ ability to reserve housing even with no connection to the city. It kind of makes sense that one makes a rental agreement before moving in, so personally I wasn’t too worried about the fact that a house is assigned to a citizen when it’s being built. However, the problem appears with the companies as the citizen that has a rental agreement may also accept a job even if they have never made it to the city to begin with. So a Citizen stuck at the border of the city with no access to their house or their workplace is basically reserving those until the Citizen is deemed a lost cause and deleted from existence. We’ll look to improve this behaviour in a way that is more understandable and there’s a clear cut between the citizens that have made it to the city and those that have not.
Does Cims also live in outside connections only to come work and then drive home to the outside connection? Or is is just Cims that live in the city that can work in the city?
 
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In the last Word of the Week, I touched upon the frequency of the expected fixes for Cities: Skylines II. For the last few weeks, we’ve been focusing on performance improvements and bug fixes at a rapid pace. As we’re continuing to work on the improvements we’ll adjust the pace of the updates slightly so we won’t see a new patch every week going forward but will have a bit longer cadence between them. We have made it through the quicker fixes and we’re now digging into the ones that require a bit more work. The next patch is not yet scheduled as it has performance improvements pending that we absolutely want to include in it.

The priorities for the team at Colossal Order are the following:

1. Performance improvements
Specifically, we are working on the level of detail models for the assets. This includes both adding missing LODs and improving the existing ones to improve the GPU performance. It might take more than one patch to address all of them, but we’ll roll out the first fixes as soon as possible. Following the asset and LOD fixes, we’ll work on improvements to CPU performance. This means focusing on the CPU stutters and simulation performance to improve simulation speed and smooth experience while scaling up the size of your cities.​
2. Bug fixing
We continue to go through your bug reports and have logged around 100 reproducible issues that have been moved to the team to look into. There are another 100 reports that we are still investigating that require more information and a bunch of duplicates, some of which add valuable information so we’ll go through all of them. We are also checking suggestions for improvement or new features, but these requests are currently at a lower priority.​
While the forum is the best place to report issues, our community team also keeps an eye on discussions outside of the forum so we can gather relevant information for the development team. Fixing gameplay bugs and issues is a high priority for us, and these can be anything from bigger overhauls of systems that are not functioning as intended to the smallest of annoyances.​
3. Editor/Modding support
The modding Beta group is testing the map editor and we’ll improve it based on their feedback before releasing it. Especially the placement of water on the map is under review since it’s currently too complicated. The UI will also receive a bit more love as it’s really difficult to find the available assets that can be placed on the map. I’ll keep you updated on the progress of the Editor and code modding and their release schedule, but the performance and bugs need to be sorted out first.​


Where we are right now
Talking about sorting, let’s talk about the Mail Service. This is a good example of a bigger overhaul caused by a few critical bugs resulting in the entire system behaving undesirably. We identified that the mail sent to the residents of the city, whether it be a citizen, a company, or a city service, is not delivered as it should. One culprit is the Post Sorting Facility as the mail is sorted in an erratic way, which makes me wonder what they are actually doing there if it’s not to sort the mail. The other issue is the Post Office vans that only seem to be collecting the mail instead of ever delivering it. Let’s see if we can get the light-fingered mail personnel under control! All jokes aside, now that these bugs have been identified and are being fixed we’ll have to test the entire system to see if it requires a rebalance. Therefore fixing the bugs takes time as we need possibly multiple QA rounds to make sure it’s working as it is supposed to.

Another issue we’re investigating on the gameplay side is the pathfinding regarding the Citizens’ ability to reserve housing even with no connection to the city. It kind of makes sense that one makes a rental agreement before moving in, so personally I wasn’t too worried about the fact that a house is assigned to a citizen when it’s being built. However, the problem appears with the companies as the citizen that has a rental agreement may also accept a job even if they have never made it to the city to begin with. So a Citizen stuck at the border of the city with no access to their house or their workplace is basically reserving those until the Citizen is deemed a lost cause and deleted from existence. We’ll look to improve this behaviour in a way that is more understandable and there’s a clear cut between the citizens that have made it to the city and those that have not.

We’re also looking at reports about export and distribution of goods in the city. Like mail, these require a deep dive to determine what is working as it should and what is not. I don’t have any details to share yet as we’re still digging into the different reports, but I wanted to let you know we haven’t missed the concerns you have raised. More on those next time!

Once the PC version is where we want it to be, we will be focusing on the console release and DLC content. We are committed to bringing the marketed DLC content to you, but it will not be landing in the originally promoted schedule. The first Asset Pack, Beach Properties, has been worked on by our artists’ and our outsourcing partner, but we’ll only implement them after the asset fix and performance work are completed to our satisfaction. I apologize for the delay, but we must not rush new content out before the base is ready for it. This also stands for the Content Creator Packs and Radio stations. Stay tuned for more information on these later!

Last Thursday we released the last weekly hotfix and it included a bunch of fixes, all of which can be found in the patch notes, but I want to highlight a few of them. The patch included a fix for the stuck “Garbage Piling Up” notifications, which didn’t clear properly after the previous fixes to the garbage collection. Now citizens will finally recognize that their bins are empty. We also took another step towards solving the issue where texture resolution drops significantly so you should see it pop up less often, though the work is still ongoing as some cases still remain. Lastly, but definitely not least, we resolved an issue that caused saves to load to a black screen when playing offline, bringing up some bad memories for some of our players. Like its predecessor, Cities: Skylines II can be played offline, so thank you for bringing this issue to light.

That’s it for this week, I’ll keep you posted!

Sincerely,
Mariina

PLEASE have also a look on the level of detail. You mentioned that your team is working on it but i read "to improve performance" so it doenst sound as an improvement for the graphics. Especially at night you see a complete dak city when you zoom a little :(
 

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I think the modders have already successfully fixed a number of the gameplay problems, while the CO is still investigating whether (!) and what is going wrong in the simulation.
 
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if the asset packs are far enough along and already importable into the game, can we PLEASE have that release prior to PDX mods or the editor so that we can at least have some variety in buildings?

Pretty unlikely for some reasons:

1. Reason (from word of the week)
we’ll only implement them after the asset fix and performance work are completed to our satisfaction. I apologize for the delay, but we must not rush new content out before the base is ready for it.
Just pushing some Gigabytes of stuff out to everyone would make performance and stability worse for players as long as the platform ist not stabilized.

2. Reason there is no way currently for people to control if they want that content or not. It's not DLCs. It's packs intended to be distributed through PDX mods. If they'd include them in an update all 8 packs will be installed for all players which would be some horrible chaos. I think asset management, caching and download is one module including the connection to PDX mods.
 
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I think the modders have already successfully fixed a number of the gameplay problems, while the CO is still investigating whether (!) and what is going wrong in the simulation.
That's not really fixes - that's workarounds. They detour stuff or add something new through (Unity) API calls.

Only devs can actually "fix" something by changes within the games source and these fixes have to work on consoles too down the road which has to be tested in depth by one or maybe (in case of consoles) two QA teams before going live.
 
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As for me, I prefer a smaller but more frequent pathces, so that every time the gameplay is better, as for now, I do not really enjoy the game, saddly.
Making patches takes additional time, you don't "just" have to develop the fix. Reducing the frequency of patches gives the developers more time to actually fix things.

Additionally, as mentioned in this blog post, the quick fixes have been made. The things they're working on right now take a little bit longer so weekly patches won't be possible.

I agree that as players we want fixes as quickly as possible. The Devs want the same though and if lowering patch frequency frees up more time to work on fixes it's possible that in the end we get more bugs fixed through less frequent patches.
 
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PLEASE have also a look on the level of detail. You mentioned that your team is working on it but i read "to improve performance" so it doenst sound as an improvement for the graphics. Especially at night you see a complete dak city when you zoom a little :(
lol, This must be lowest priority of all the listed issues probably, a few lights or 3 millimeter of muddy texture in the background
 
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