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CO Word of the Week #3

Last week I promised to give you an update on where we are with the modding of Cities: Skylines II. The Editor is in the works and we shared an updated version of it with the closed Modding Beta group for a feedback round just last Friday. The Editor currently includes only maps and support for code modding and we’re looking forward to getting those ready for an initial release. I’m calling it an initial release as we will be adding to the modding tools throughout the game's lifetime, just like we did with Cities: Skylines.

We do not have the asset import feature available yet, so the creators are currently unable to import their own assets into the game. After we have the import feature in place we’ll be running it through the Modding Beta group. When the asset part of the Editor is ready, we’ll have the Paradox Mods nicely populated with the Region pack assets that the asset creators have been working on. The assets are looking amazing, and I’m sure you’ll have a lot of fun choosing the ones most fitting to your cities! If you haven’t already, check out the Region Pack teaser here:


Our goal is to release the Editor as soon as possible, and we will keep you updated on the progress. We expect it will take a couple of months to get the Editor in a shape where we can release it, but we don’t have a concrete timeline yet as we don’t want to make promises we can’t keep. Once the Editor is out we will continue to work on it with your feedback and suggestions to help us prioritize the most wanted features and improvements. We’re very much looking forward to seeing your creations and mods too!

As an update on console, the game will have all the intended Editor features in place when the console versions are released, so you’ll be able to catch up to the PC players in no time. The Editor on console will be on par with the PC version in all but two features: code modding and asset importing as these are not possible within the console restrictions. However, you will be able to download user-created assets from Paradox Mods and create custom maps! The performance improvements we are currently working on also benefit the console version, and we’re actively working on the console versions so they will be ready for you in the first half of 2024.

In the last three weeks, we’ve had a very quick pace with the patches. There is one more of those landing soon, but after that, we’ll be focusing on bigger fixes that take longer to work on. The team is now focusing on LODs and improving GPU performances, and while geometric LODs are largely automated, there are a ton of tweaks and adjustments required. We are expecting a relevant performance boost with these asset fixes. The workload is significant and unfortunately, there is no silver bullet to improve the performance at once, instead, it requires several tasks completed before we are happy with it. This results in less frequent updates so we won’t have weekly patches going forward. Please check the future Word of the Weeks for more information, as I plan to keep writing one every week until further notice.

Before I go, here’s a link to last week’s patch notes if you want to check what it brought! Thanks to everyone who reported an issue and gave feedback. Your effort is most appreciated!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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Thanks for all the feedback and apologies for not having time yesterday to write answers to your questions! I see some already answered so I'll just write a summary that hopefully answers at least some of the concerns raised.

You have the right to feel disappointed for the Editor not being already available. We have no intention to delay its release more than necessary. The asset import feature (where a user imports an asset created in a 3D modeling software to the game) is severely delayed due to various technical issues related to it and given it's mid November now we have zero chance of getting it ready before the Christmas break. When it comes to the map editor we'll see if it can be released before the asset import is ready. Regardless of when the Editor is released it is planned to be supported and improved upon based on the feedback from the creators and modders using it. The delay is most unfortunate but we are doing our best to getting the Editor out as soon as possible.

Gameplay issues are being actively worked on and we've been also looking into some pathfinding errors. Some bugs take longer to fix than others and it would cause added stress to try and keep a specific cadence so at no point have we committed to one. Since we've had weekly patches thus far I found it best to warn that it's not to be expected in the future, with the sole purpose of trying to manage expectations. While the patch cadence is expected to be longer going forward it doesn't mean we have stopped working on bugfixes.

We are also working on the performance not only because it's necessary for the console release but also for PC platforms to allow the creation of huge cities. I'm sensing that most are actually able to play with acceptable performance level if it starts to feel like we should be focusing on the other things more, but we are internally not satisfied with the current situation and will keep working on improving the performance until we are.

I will keep bringing you news every week, hopefully good ones but we must be able to discuss setbacks as well, if more occur. For those wanting to leave the game behind, I fully understand and respect that and I hope you will find your way back again later in time. We're not going anywhere.
Thanks for the feedback.

I understand that bad news should also be communicated, even if it isn't very fun to hear. But that way you manage expectations. I was a developer myself, and the general IT manager now, so I know how much stress additional sprints and releases bring to a team and the whole production pipeline.

That said, would it be possible to shed a light on which gameplay issues are being worked on short term and which long term?

Some are really massive gamebreaking bugs like postal service and cargo, import/export still not working. If these are not expected to be fixed very shortly I will leave the game and the forums behind for the time being because they are just ruining the enjoyment of every city I try. These are critital gamebreaking features everyone has been talking about for weeks.

For now we still don't know which bugs are being looked into and what is first priority. Performance is one thing, but for all of those who don't have performance issues anymore are eagerly awaiting those gameplay fixes that affect everyone.

Even big games like Call Of Duty have a public Trello board where the community can see what issues are being prioritised and worked on, and what is in the backlog.
 
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Thanks for all the feedback and apologies for not having time yesterday to write answers to your questions! I see some already answered so I'll just write a summary that hopefully answers at least some of the concerns raised.

You have the right to feel disappointed for the Editor not being already available. We have no intention to delay its release more than necessary. The asset import feature (where a user imports an asset created in a 3D modeling software to the game) is severely delayed due to various technical issues related to it and given it's mid November now we have zero chance of getting it ready before the Christmas break. When it comes to the map editor we'll see if it can be released before the asset import is ready. Regardless of when the Editor is released it is planned to be supported and improved upon based on the feedback from the creators and modders using it. The delay is most unfortunate but we are doing our best to getting the Editor out as soon as possible.

Gameplay issues are being actively worked on and we've been also looking into some pathfinding errors. Some bugs take longer to fix than others and it would cause added stress to try and keep a specific cadence so at no point have we committed to one. Since we've had weekly patches thus far I found it best to warn that it's not to be expected in the future, with the sole purpose of trying to manage expectations. While the patch cadence is expected to be longer going forward it doesn't mean we have stopped working on bugfixes.

We are also working on the performance not only because it's necessary for the console release but also for PC platforms to allow the creation of huge cities. I'm sensing that most are actually able to play with acceptable performance level if it starts to feel like we should be focusing on the other things more, but we are internally not satisfied with the current situation and will keep working on improving the performance until we are.

I will keep bringing you news every week, hopefully good ones but we must be able to discuss setbacks as well, if more occur. For those wanting to leave the game behind, I fully understand and respect that and I hope you will find your way back again later in time. We're not going anywhere.

Yes, giving us maps would help. More honesty before release would have helped more though. I'll take those maps as soon as possible, sooner.
 
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Hello Mariina, thank you for your update again.
Just one point/question regarding this:

The asset import feature (where a user imports an asset created in a 3D modeling software to the game) is severely delayed due to various technical issues related to it and given it's mid November now we have zero chance of getting it ready before the Christmas break.

Would it be possible to at least enable editing and saving of existing assets locally (with different file names so they don't overwrite vanilla assets on runtime) when the map editor part is being released?
I for one tried the _not intended to be used_ version of the Editor on my own and find that editing assets is working quite well (like creating longer trams and shorter subway trains, changing the bus station or airports).

To avoid too many people getting into trouble with that from my perspective it would be fine to have a toggle for that functionality in developer mode, so that you have to actively enable it with the certain level of knowledge. It would also provide the chance to have more feedback on certain aspects, even if you already have a set of modders testing in closed beta.
 
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For those wanting to leave the game behind, I fully understand and respect that and I hope you will find your way back again later in time. We're not going anywhere.
@co_martsu thanks for the feedback - any chance of discussing refunds for those of us who feel they've been misled and sold a game that is clearly not ready for a full price release just yet?
 
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Last week we released a patch to address some of the gameplay issues you have reported, and we're investigating several others as we're working our way through the issues that have been brought to our attention.
Hi there,
thank you for the patch last week. This helped allot. But, as the op said. There are a million bug fixes needed to bring the game to a state as it was adverted.
I think you dev's would also be closer to a full sim as it is right now.
I read op's comment as a disappointing communication after the last patch. You are working on the Mod editor, which most of us won't use. Most of us will use the outcome from others. But only when the game is working as intended.
I read a lot of posts in many forums where people uninstalling the game atm.
The other communication is, that you were now working on bigger problems and switch to a slower patch cycle to address the big problems.
This is a valid way of taking care of the game.
But for many people, it sounds like you are focusing on the wrong parts. Most of the people just want to enjoy the game.

Maybe you should create some kind of a roadmap with the known bugs and when you are planing to work on what topic and maybe what is actually in work.
I assume that not everyone is only working on the mod editor, atm.
I bet most of the difficulties you were already aware of before even a single play had a hand on the game.

It's a bit frustrating after all thy hype about this game. I was watching many of the content creators before the launch. None of them was addressing any difficulties of this size we are seeing now.

I still have hope in this game. But to be more confident, it would help to raise the communication a bit about what problems you are working on and how much time do you expect.

You have given you one year for the console editions.... Atm. the game is barely runnable on the biggest machines. So what will this tell us for the consoles?
Who will purchase the game in this current state on a console?
You have put a lot of pressure on yourself
I think you should give the crowd some faith in you.
 
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We're investigating the bug reports and fixing issues. There's a lot of people enjoying the game so we are not looking to pull it of the market.

Actions speak louder than words: patches will be released and the game improved. I'll share the latest news next week and I hope to see you all then!
 
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This entire release has been Leviathan-level.

Edit: Also it's interesting that the news about mods being MONTHS rather than DAYS away drops just after the 14-day Steam return window closes, isn't it?
 
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We're investigating the bug reports and fixing issues. There's a lot of people enjoying the game so we are not looking to pull it of the market.

Actions speak louder than words: patches will be released and the game improved. I'll share the latest news next week and I hope to see you all then!

Hi Mariina,

i can only imagine how it feels to have such strong issues with your baby and see people that much disappointed. My understanding on CO's mission is that all this is the total opposite of what you intended. Your goal is to give people a good time and not frustration.

We all hope it will grow into something good soonish. The foundation is there and I am sure you will manage these issues. I understand how hard you are trying to manage expectations here. I guess you have some kind of sprint planning. So if it is possible, just export a report and share it. ;)

Anyway, take your time to finish things as they should be. It does not help anyone to get more untested, buggy things.

To all of those here that are that much angry:

It's humans working at Colossal Order! Just like you and me. So go ahead and throw the first stone if you never did misstakes.
Remember that this is just a game. They try to correct it and it's not the end of the world.

I only truely hope that the team does not have to crunch because of all this.
And that they can get some good rest arround christmas and recharche batteries so that they can bring us what we all wished for without a burnout.

I am pretty sure that studio and publisher learned their lesson, so calm down.
 
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It's humans working at Colossal Order! Just like you and me. So go ahead and throw the first stone if you never did misstakes.
It's not about making mistakes. We all make mistakes. It's about what you do after making the mistake that matters.

Do you acknowledge it? Do you apologize for it? Do you offer solutions (refunds) to fix it? Perhaps most importantly, do you learn from it?

So far, I am not seeing any of these things.
 
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For those not wanting to read 11 pages of comments

The conclusion of the all the official posts is: 'We will fix things eventually at some unspecified date and before we release any DLC. We don't want to say what the priorities are, and we will not commit to any date, timeline, roadmap or promise whatsoever'

Why even communicate then... You will just make people more angry or disappointed if you give nothing at all beyond 'we are working on things'
 
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We paid for a full game and received a very expensive early access beta.
  • Simulation is broken
  • No performance optimization
  • No map editor
  • No mods
  • Day one DLC
  • Critical bugs since launch (Cargotrains dont export, Garbage Management broken, Post Sorting Office Not Working, Commercial demand, Traffic IA, ...).
 
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Wow. Really? Well, now I am really looking forward to seeing more aspects of the game that won't be available to general players for months. Video showing us what the Editor will be able to do...eventually. Video showing new Region Packs that will be available...eventually. Please dangle some more aspects of the game that are not yet available because I am done with CSII until more aspects of the game actually become available. It is just too frustrating to play in its current state. I'm going back to CSI for awhile. It's much more fun.
 
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For those wanting to leave the game behind, I fully understand and respect that and I hope you will find your way back again later in time. We're not going anywhere.

So for those of us willing to leave the game behind, can we get a REFUND? If so, I bought an Ultimate Edition Steam activation key on Nuuvem, how should I proceed?
 
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Cities: Skylines 1 was a huge success, and much of its success was due to its accessibility (low hardware requirements) and an immense library of mods.

How do CO and Paradox launch the next game? Unbelievably high hardware requirements and no mod support. It's almost hard to believe.
 
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If asset importing isn't operational then why are there custom assets literally in the game in the Region Packs trailer? Why is that going to be delayed as well if the trailers show it's already in-game?
 
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the spam filter is a bit weird, so i will post it as a picture
reply.png
 
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If asset importing isn't operational then why are there custom assets literally in the game in the Region Packs trailer? Why is that going to be delayed as well if the trailers show it's already in-game?
Well I reckon it's either a) bullshot marketing showing us things that never actually existed in game; or b) it's CO now realising there's no way on God's good Earth that those lovely, highly detailed, GPU-intensive assets will ever ever run in a console environment so the creators are having to remake all of them.

I don't know which would be worse to be honest.
 
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