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CK3 Dev Diary #79 - An Update on Cultures

Greetings!

We’ve talked plenty about cultures already at this point, but I wanted to give you a brief update on what we’ve done since the initial reveal of the culture rework. Since then, we’ve taken some time to add additional functionality based on your feedback!

Previously, you could only add new traditions to a culture to fill out any empty tradition slots you may have. If you wanted to change anything regarding your culture, you would have to create a new one. Which begs the question. What if I want to keep the culture I already have? Or why can I not replace that one tradition to make my culture perfect? Fret not. The cultural head has gained the ability to change, or ‘reform’ if you will, their culture in order to change it without the need to create a new culture. The cultural head cannot replace everything mind you, but may change the ethos, the martial custom, and any tradition. If you want to change any of the remaining pillars you’ll have to create a new culture, either by diverging or forming a hybrid. Do note that you need to own the Royal Court expansion to reform your culture, similar to creating a culture. Even without the DLC, you can always add new traditions to fill out any empty slots.

Reasoning for what you are able to change this way is twofold. First, changing heritage or language for an existing culture felt a bit off. While a language in reality does evolve over time, that is something we don’t really represent in the game, which makes it weird to simply “replace” a language. And you can’t really change your heritage in the same vein as, say, a tradition. Secondly, we wanted to make sure that you still have a valid reason to create a divergent culture. The two approaches are slightly similar in functionality, but it is important that both reforming and diverging a culture serves different purposes and that the distinction between the two is clear.

01_reform_button.jpg

[Image showing the options to reform or diverge a culture]

The major difference is, as mentioned above, that reforming only allows you to change certain aspects about a culture, while diverging allows for additional possibilities. A second significant difference is the cost. Replacing a pillar will cost you prestige. The ethos in particular includes a rather hefty prestige cost that should make it rather difficult to repeatedly change it over the course of a campaign. You are, however, free to pick any ethos, regardless of circumstances.

02_replace_ethos.jpg

[Image of the ethos replacement window]

Traditions will also be more expensive to replace. Instead of just a flat increase, replacing a tradition increases the prestige cost by 50%. The cost penalty will therefore be relative to how well your culture matches any given tradition, making the additional cost more harsh for already expensive (and less compatible) traditions.

03_replace_tradition_cost.jpg

[Image showing the prestige cost for the Agrarian tradition when replacing a tradition]

These additional costs will make reforming or diverging your culture easier or more difficult depending on your situation. Attempting to diverge from a large and unified culture, such as Greek when playing as the Byzantine emperor, will be rather expensive and the less viable option. Especially if you only want to change a tradition or two. Reforming your culture will be cheaper, allowing you to more easily tweak your culture over time.

If you are playing as the cultural head of a widely spread culture, such as Andalusian, diverging might instead be your preferred solution. Diverging from a culture that is spread out across multiple realms is significantly cheaper, allowing you to instead spend the prestige on replacing additional traditions or save it for something else entirely. Changing pillars is, for example, free when diverging, since you are forced to change at least one pillar in order to be able to create your new culture.

Finally, you might have noticed the hourglass in the above screenshots. This is the establishment rate. Whenever you add or replace a tradition, or change a pillar, it will take some time before the change is applied. The time required for a change to be fully adopted mainly depends on your culture’s size. Larger cultures will logically gravitate towards a slower establishment rate. The duration is also increased whenever you replace an existing tradition. As such, adding a completely new tradition to your culture is not only cheaper, but it will go faster as well. This is important because you may only have one cultural change pending at any given time. If you replace a tradition with something else, you will have to wait until that tradition has been fully adopted before you can change your culture again. Diverging, on the other hand, still allows you to do sweeping changes and they take effect immediately as you create a new culture.

04_establish_time.jpg

[Image of the establishment rate tooltip]

That about sums up all of the additional changes we’ve done. In short, the ambition here is to allow you to shape your culture more freely in the way you want, without having to always resort to doing something that might feel a bit heavy handed. On a final note, I’d like to thank you for providing us with feedback and voicing your opinions! Giving valid and constructive criticism does, at times, pay off.
 
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What does the bureaucratic ethos do? that does seem to be a new one that is added.
Thats a prerequsite if you want to form the german culture.
You can't form Germany without this ethos.
 
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Thank you for your work
looking forward to play it when it releases^^
 
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Will some of the cultural aspects give us options to build new culture specific buildings?
We do have a number of traditions that adds various modifiers to existing buildings, such as making coastal holdings more valuable, or certain buildings having additional bonuses in specific terrain types. New buildings, on the other hand, is more rare. I think we have one tradition that adds a completely new building, unless I'm forgetting some of the traditions.
1.) What does the bureaucratic ethos do? that does seem to be a new one that is added.

2.) What do all the various traditions do here? Some of these also seem new.
1. We renamed the 'Inventive' ethos, to make it more widely applicable, but I think the effects are remains the same as before.

2. I won't go into detail about all of the new ones, but here is one example:
trad_expert_artisans.jpg


Will scripts matter at all in the game?
Short answer; No. Scripts goes well above and beyond the intended impact and purpose of languages.
 
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Will there be a gamerule which enables/disables the ability to create new cultures for the ai or at least a rule to change the frequency? I can imagine the ai spamming new cultures like they do with cadet branches.
 
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Good way to head-off the potential issue of massive "culture spam".
 
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[...] While a language in reality does evolve over time, that is something we don’t really represent in the game, which makes it weird to simply “replace” a language. And you can’t really change your heritage in the same vein as, say, a tradition. [...]
A bit unrelated, but speaking of changing languages, I have the question whether those already on the map are the only possible languages one can speak or if there are some that developed through the games time, some possible languages or even some languages that went extinct for the choice of a language.
Is it the former or the latter?
 
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Will it be possible to rename cultures when reforming them? Sometimes, a player might want to rename his culture to reflect some in-game development, or alternatively, correct a typo he made while sloppily creating it in the first place.
 
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Will there be a gamerule which enables/disables the ability to create new cultures for the ai or at least a rule to change the frequency? I can imagine the ai spamming new cultures like they do with cadet branches.
I think we have a reached a fairly decent balance in how often new cultures are created, but as always, it won't be to everyones liking. As outlined in a previous Dev Diary, we do have game rules pertain to exactly this. You can change how frequent both divergent and hybrid cultures should be, adjust the cooldown of how often new cultures can spin off into new cultures, or even turn them off completely if you want to.

This looks fantastic! Could something like that be applied to faiths?
No such plans at the moment.

Will it be possible to rename cultures when reforming them? Sometimes, a player might want to rename his culture to reflect some in-game development, or alternatively, correct a typo he made while sloppily creating it in the first place.
You cannot rename a culture when reforming it, no. Creating a divergent or a hybrid culture allows you to name it however you like though.
 
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Greetings!

We’ve talked plenty about cultures already at this point, but I wanted to give you a brief update on what we’ve done since the initial reveal of the culture rework. Since then, we’ve taken some time to add additional functionality based on your feedback!

Previously, you could only add new traditions to a culture to fill out any empty tradition slots you may have. If you wanted to change anything regarding your culture, you would have to create a new one. Which begs the question. What if I want to keep the culture I already have? Or why can I not replace that one tradition to make my culture perfect? Fret not. The cultural head has gained the ability to change, or ‘reform’ if you will, their culture in order to change it without the need to create a new culture. The cultural head cannot replace everything mind you, but may change the ethos, the martial custom, and any tradition. If you want to change any of the remaining pillars you’ll have to create a new culture, either by diverging or forming a hybrid. Do note that you need to own the Royal Court expansion to reform your culture, similar to creating a culture. Even without the DLC, you can always add new traditions to fill out any empty slots.

Reasoning for what you are able to change this way is twofold. First, changing heritage or language for an existing culture felt a bit off. While a language in reality does evolve over time, that is something we don’t really represent in the game, which makes it weird to simply “replace” a language. And you can’t really change your heritage in the same vein as, say, a tradition. Secondly, we wanted to make sure that you still have a valid reason to create a divergent culture. The two approaches are slightly similar in functionality, but it is important that both reforming and diverging a culture serves different purposes and that the distinction between the two is clear.

View attachment 768069
[Image showing the options to reform or diverge a culture]

The major difference is, as mentioned above, that reforming only allows you to change certain aspects about a culture, while diverging allows for additional possibilities. A second significant difference is the cost. Replacing a pillar will cost you prestige. The ethos in particular includes a rather hefty prestige cost that should make it rather difficult to repeatedly change it over the course of a campaign. You are, however, free to pick any ethos, regardless of circumstances.

View attachment 768070
[Image of the ethos replacement window]

Traditions will also be more expensive to replace. Instead of just a flat increase, replacing a tradition increases the prestige cost by 50%. The cost penalty will therefore be relative to how well your culture matches any given tradition, making the additional cost more harsh for already expensive (and less compatible) traditions.

View attachment 768071
[Image showing the prestige cost for the Agrarian tradition when replacing a tradition]

These additional costs will make reforming or diverging your culture easier or more difficult depending on your situation. Attempting to diverge from a large and unified culture, such as Greek when playing as the Byzantine emperor, will be rather expensive and the less viable option. Especially if you only want to change a tradition or two. Reforming your culture will be cheaper, allowing you to more easily tweak your culture over time.

If you are playing as the cultural head of a widely spread culture, such as Andalusian, diverging might instead be your preferred solution. Diverging from a culture that is spread out across multiple realms is significantly cheaper, allowing you to instead spend the prestige on replacing additional traditions or save it for something else entirely. Changing pillars is, for example, free when diverging, since you are forced to change at least one pillar in order to be able to create your new culture.

Finally, you might have noticed the hourglass in the above screenshots. This is the establishment rate. Whenever you add or replace a tradition, or change a pillar, it will take some time before the change is applied. The time required for a change to be fully adopted mainly depends on your culture’s size. Larger cultures will logically gravitate towards a slower establishment rate. The duration is also increased whenever you replace an existing tradition. As such, adding a completely new tradition to your culture is not only cheaper, but it will go faster as well. This is important because you may only have one cultural change pending at any given time. If you replace a tradition with something else, you will have to wait until that tradition has been fully adopted before you can change your culture again. Diverging, on the other hand, still allows you to do sweeping changes and they take effect immediately as you create a new culture.

View attachment 768072
[Image of the establishment rate tooltip]

That about sums up all of the additional changes we’ve done. In short, the ambition here is to allow you to shape your culture more freely in the way you want, without having to always resort to doing something that might feel a bit heavy handed. On a final note, I’d like to thank you for providing us with feedback and voicing your opinions! Giving valid and constructive criticism does, at times, pay off.
I'm waiting to see mistresses,like man king back then could have a ton of mistresses some,had over 4 illegitimate children,so like,yea I wish there were events that yo usee a beutiful lady or smthng like that,because back then affairs outside of marriage for the husband was quite overlooked in terms of nobles and monarchs
 
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I'm waiting to see mistresses,like man king back then could have a ton of mistresses some,had over 4 illegitimate children,so like,yea I wish there were events that yo usee a beutiful lady or smthng like that,because back then affairs outside of marriage for the husband was quite overlooked in terms of nobles and monarchs
Sir, this isn't loverslab
 
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If you've explained this before, sorry for asking, but what is the logic behind the cultural head being able to diverge their culture? It feels to me like diverging your culture should be treated in a similar manner to establishing a cadet house in the sense that it should be limited to lesser rulers, who want to go their own way, and be unavailable to the person who is already controlling the parent culture.
 
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I like the new changes with the traditions.
 
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"Giving valid and constructive criticism does, at times, pay off."

I hereby suggest that you develop the team (and manager of the team) responsible for validating and fixing reported bugs. Some known bugs have existed for 6+ mos. Moreover, the validation process for reported bugs appears to have stalled or become very, very slow.

Cheers!
 
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If you've explained this before, sorry for asking, but what is the logic behind the cultural head being able to diverge their culture? It feels to me like diverging your culture should be treated in a similar manner to establishing a cadet house in the sense that it should be limited to lesser rulers, who want to go their own way, and be unavailable to the person who is already controlling the parent culture.

Look at it as an option to "improve" upon an existing culture without having to create a new one just because you don't like 1 tiny part of it. Those who want to create their own can just create a new one.
Yeah pretty much this. As outlined in my original post, the big difference is really that reforming is meant to be a way for you to make smaller changes over time, while creating a new culture allows you to do big changes all in one go. I don't see any reason to simply not allow both options. That way, you can pick the option that suits your preference, depending on what you want to do with your culture!
 
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