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CK3 Dev Diary #74 - Please Kaiser, Can I Have Some More?

Greetings counts and dukes! Today we will be looking at The Royal Court from a different perspective: your perspective!

While being a queen or emperor is great and all, sometimes it can be a bit of a drag to manage all those vying subjects. Sometimes, you just want to rule a small corner of a mightier realm, and enjoy the benefits of the Emperor’s protection, and while a duchess doesn’t have their own Royal Court, they can interact with their Liege’s via two new decisions.

Petition Liege
Player vassals can approach their King-or-above ranked Liege with a Petition at any time through a new decision, providing they have enough Prestige, there is something they can ask for, and they haven’t done so in the last 5 years. Lieges will currently only interact with this content if they happen to have a player as their vassal and they make their own—no doubt outrageous—requests.

The possibilities include asking for a position on your Liege’s Council, asking for a Title you hold a claim on, or dismantling an unruly Faction in your own realm. There are currently 14 different options, each having some equivalent in the Hold Court events brought to Lieges by AI vassals, ranging from helping you convert your lands to paying off your debts.

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This will allow you to ask for things directly without resorting immediately to war, which can remain a last resort for when you need to topple that king whose tolerance of border-gore clearly proves their illegitimacy.

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It is up to the Liege whether to receive a Petitioner, though outright refusing will damage relations and be seen as slightly tyrannical. The request itself may also be rejected once heard, and the odds of acceptance by the AI will be tipped more in your favor if you make reasonable requests and maintain good relations; after all, your boss doesn’t want to be seen as unreasonable.

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If they are astute, your Liege may also ask for something in return for granting your Petition, such as a Favor Hook or a bit of Gold—a counter you can of course reject, leaving you both empty-handed.

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If a Liege is not being very forthcoming, you can also attempt to convince or outsmart a trusted advisor as a last resort, at the cost of some Prestige. You will need to pass a skill check in a relevant area, usually against one of your Liege’s councillors, or have an ally near to the throne—the King’s wife perhaps—whose assent will force your Liege’s hand.

Pay Homage
Homage represents the formal pledge of loyalty by a feudal lord to their Liege, and provides Opinion, Renown, and Prestige to both parties, providing the occasion goes smoothly. This decision is also available to AI as well as players.

homage.png


This decision costs some Prestige to initiate, is only available to Feudal and Clan vassals, and can only be undertaken once per Liege. If the ruler changes or dies, you can make a new pledge of allegiance to their replacement.

As with Petition Liege, this decision can be rejected outright, and is not totally without risk even if they let you through the door. There is a great deal of pressure for such an important event to go well, and not all lords and ladies are made for public speaking.

Things can go awry in a variety of ways, depending on the Petitioner’s skills and other factors: Have you put in the hours to learn Norman, or merely practised a few key lines the night before on the road to Windsor? Will your Shah empathise with your stammer, or imitate it in front of the entire Persian court? Will you forever more be called ‘the Clumsy’ by your vindictive Sultan, simply because you lost your balance once?

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If something does go wrong, it is up to the Liege to decide if they will let it go—giving your rival the opportunity to publicly mock your clumsiness might not be the best idea. If they do decide to embarrass you, you will lose some Prestige and Opinion with your Liege, instead of gaining them.

Regardless of the outcome, both your Dynasties will gain a small amount of Renown, and the rewards are increased by offering gifts in addition to your pledge, such as a Contract change in favor of your Liege.

That broadly covers these two new decisions, so I’ll leave it there for now!
 
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Olaf Trygvasson

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Someone will have to correct me, but I believe this was tried. Was incredibly spammy for larger realms.
Would it be possible to do this but make a limit so that only one vassal could petition per year? Maybe so that every January the vassal with a petition with the most military strength is able to put forward a petition, with a limit so that any individual vassal could only put one up every five years?
 
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Tiax

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I think that if letting the AI send petitions was too spammy, it might indicate that petitions need some rethinking. Just as an example, consider the petition that transfers a claim to you. It shouldn't be the case that when my five year cooldown ends, I think to myself "well, I have this claim, so no harm in asking for it, you never know". That's a red flag that the interaction is too easy.

I previously gave the example of the ease of acquiring Council Rights on your feudal contract. Imagine if the AI was allowed to do the same - everyone would be spammed with requests for council rights in exchange for higher levy obligations. That's not a sign that you shouldn't let the AI renegotiate their feudal contracts, it's a sign that the cost and barrier to renegotiation is too low.

I hope that if I decide to petition for the transfer of a claim, I have to do some real leg work to get it, and that there's a real cost to being rejected. Otherwise the player just gets to spam (well, once every five years) for free stuff while the AI doesn't.
 
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VenetianPriest

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inventory, grandeur, amenities, modding, bugfixes... possibly more
I felt they already covered grandeur in some detail in a very early DD for Royal Court. They do need to flesh out amenities, and I’m interested to see inventory for sure.

We’re just playing the estimating date of release game.
 

boorkie

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I felt they already covered grandeur in some detail in a very early DD for Royal Court. They do need to flesh out amenities, and I’m interested to see inventory for sure.

We’re just playing the estimating date of release game.
Yeah, I know they've touched grandeur but it feels like it's not fully explained yet and I assume it will get a dedicated DD before the release

The only reason why I have this list is because I was trying to estimate the number of DDs the other day
 
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With the new homage system and the 3d throne rooom, this dlc would be a great time to incorporate the coronation mechanic from CK2. Any chance of the coronation system coming back for this dlc?
baptisms too while they are at it. and hopefully bring back college of cardinals so we no longer have 17 yo popes
 
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AjayAlcos

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Can petitions work with foreign rulers?

Like petitioning the pope to lift a friend's/relative's excommunication?
 
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Could you perhaps add the flag of the title that the person who petition you hold? I mean, if I rule the HRE or any other large title, I cannot possibly be remember all my vassals.

However, I do remember the flags of many of the titles. So, having the guy who petition you and the flag of their title would help me a great deal in figuring out who they are, and where they rule.

I also have some questions:
What happens if you don't pay homage?

Can you negotiate the vassal contract better than today, for instance if you play as a powerful kingdom and decides to vassalize under an empire; could the emperor suggest that the king is not allowed to eat up his fellow vassals/disturb the interior of the empires, while the king on the other hand would get some other benefits etc. In other words; would it be more of a haggle than what it is today where it's basically a question of who is fastest to click the right buttons?
 
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I like it!

But... one thing I hope CK3 (and all PDX games) moves away from is hard cooldowns on thing. I dislike arbitrary 'you can do this action in exactly 5 years and not a day sooner' buttons. I would MUCH prefer if you can try to petition your liege the day after having petitioned them, but you annoy them and lose a lot of opinion. So that, after 5 years, you wouldn't lose any opinion, after only 4 years you'd lose a little opinion, etc. Soft limits instead of hard ones, you know. Makes it much more of a strategic thing of how much it's worth to you.
I like this suggestion, though the issue with it is that it is far too easy to make someone have very high opinion of you, so you could spam this pretty frequently and still keep opinion high enough. But I do agree that a soft limit is far preferable to a hard limit.
 

jtorr

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This feature looks great and will add a new layer of depth and interaction to CK3 that is very exciting for me.

If I can just make one comment as a silly non-European who's never actually seen a throne room IRL and probably has the wrong idea about them - This is the first time I've seen the 3D rendering of the throne room in Royal Court, and personally I think there should be stairs leading up to the throne. Even just like, 3 steps right before the throne would be enough.

Without stairs before the throne, I don't know... it's looks like less of a throne room to me and more of a meeting room with not enough chairs.
 
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baptisms too while they are at it. and hopefully bring back college of cardinals so we no longer have 17 yo popes
Yes, and also similar systems for other religions too. I hate the random head of faith. Come on, give me at least some reason why it should be the random person that got that position. At least give me some schemes to put a relative or my own archbishop into this position. It could be extremely expensive to do so but it would be more fun than the random person suddenly pope mechanic.
 
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Speaking of requesting a seat in the council. I think it would be good to have an option when our liege asks us to join their council if we could do a different function like Spymaster if I have high intrigue instead of Steward that I have low.
 

Edamir

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If someone requests a title and the king is willing to transfer another vassals title, is this at least seen as slightly tyrannical? And can the vassal losing his title refuse the king`s revocation? Im concerned in two cases: When a powerful and stubborn/just/bold AI vassal would lose his title without being guilty of anything, he should refuse the unjust revocation. And, if I as a player would lose my title (could happen in multiplayer, if I understand it correctly) I would want the option to refuse!
 
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