CK3 Dev Diary #67 - A View to a Map​

Greetings!

The team is slowly coming back together after a well deserved summer vacation. Today, let’s have a look at what we’ve been doing to the culture setup and some small scale map tweaks. Most of the work we’ve spent on cultures has naturally gone into the cultural overhaul itself, but we have made some general improvements as well, most notably over in India.

Starting with a small culture addition in southern Europe, and that some of you keen eyed readers noticed back in a previous dev diary, we’ve added back a fan favorite from CK2; Carantanian. The culture is quite extensive on game start and covers most of south-eastern Bavaria. From a historical point of view, the culture is of a west slavic origin, but as they got cut off from their ancestral brethren in the Carpathian Basin, they became gradually closer to the south slavic peoples. We represent this by Carantanian having a West Slavic Heritage, but speaking a South Slavic Language.

[Image of Carantanian culture]​

Next, I’ll hand it over to our local India expert, @Trin Tragula, to talk about (you guessed it) India!

Indian Culture Changes
The culture rework has been a good opportunity to rework the cultures in India a bit. The current setup here is one we inherited from Crusader Kings 2 and it was in some ways not entirely appropriate for our era. To better reflect the diversity of the subcontinent we have added two new cultures, changed the old ones a bit and also added a great number of potential culture names for when the large starting cultures diverge.

First of all we have gotten rid of Hindustani culture, and two new cultures have been broken away from what it used to cover in the south. The core part of the culture covers the Gangetic plain, and is now known as Kannauji after the Imperial city of Kannauj (Kanyakubja) which was the main prize of the region and often gave its name to it.

Hindustani itself is still around in a way, as a possible name for a cultural hybrid between an Iranian or Turkic culture with one of the north indian cultures.

[Image of the cultures in northern India]​

Starting in the central parts of India the newly added Gond culture has been carved out of areas that were previously Hindustani, Marathi or Oriya. In 1066 most Gond counties are under the control of the Cedi kingdom and many of these counties are now also tribal at start. This culture covers a region that was in an odd place in the old setup, at the border of several cultures but not quite belonging to either of them.

[Image of the Gond culture]​

Covering the Malwa plateau as well as some of the adjacent regions that were previously considered Hindustani. This new culture shares a language with the Rajasthani and Gujarati cultures, Gurjar Apabhramsa. The existing Rajput culture has been renamed to Rajasthani (since Rajput as a cultural distinction does not really fit our start date) and Assamese is now known as Kamrupi.

[Image of the Malvi culture]​

Indian History and Title Improvements
While looking over the subcontinent it was also clear that in some areas the title setup was also better suited for the early modern era, rather than the medieval era around Crusader Kings III start dates. A number of baronies have been renamed and reorganized into new counties, and a number of new vassals have been scripted in, especially for the 1066 start.
The starting presumptions about who controlled what in 1066 have also been revisited to bring things better in line with history and create a more interesting start. There are now more starting characters, both independent and vassals, and most kings will no longer start above their domain limit.

Some things like the crisis of the Chola empire should also be a bit better represented in the initial setup, with strong and somewhat unruly Pandya vassals, a much stronger Lankan revolt and the Chera Raja now independent (with his historical vassals to support him). You can now also play as the future king, Kulottunga.
There are also other, minor changes, such as revisiting the extent of cultures like Kashmiri, and Telugu, and assigning a number of tribal counties in the eastern-central part of the subcontinent.

[Image of the Sinhalese rebellion in 1066]​

That concludes today’s dev diary. Until next time!

 

[Nikicaga]

Any chance we'll see Albanian/Arvanite and Dalmatian?

The Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian cultural border also might need some adjustments, with Bosnian being much smaller in the early bookmarks and spreading later

 

[Voy]

Worth noting that India is not the full focus of this update, so any larger overhaul would have to come later. Since coming unto the project I have gone after some of the very visible problems in the subcontinent however Both because it deserves to be better portrayed and because I could identify a few areas that could be readily improved.

The Vengi Chalukyas should at least now have a full title history going back to the founding of the dynasty, as well as some more queens and princesses (mainly the ones that had intermarried with the Cholas, since those are the ones that are the most important in the 1066 start - they are what ties Kulottunga to the Cholas).

With that said, I haven't yet come across a specific landed Reddy lineage at our 1066 start date. If you could point me to one then I'd love to do something about this. The Vengi Chalukyas could do with holding less land directly, and the the Kakatiyas are by far the Chalukya vassal that holds the most land right now and really need some vassals under them.

A little step is still much better than the CK2 legacy we currently got. We appreciate every effort, thank you.

As far as Reddy chiefs go, I have not seen many names that are even connected to make up a full dynasty anyways. Better to just have some Reddy inspired placeholders than none at all similar to the made-up Boyars and remnant tribes in the Russian principalities.

On that note I truly want tribal communities like the Hunas, etc. to make an appearance even if just as one vassal chieftain.

On the topic of missing queens, can we expect (everyone's favourite Cedi kingdom ruler) Karna's Huna wife Avalla-Devi for 1066? I've always enjoyed playing as that kingdom and it would be even more fun now that they're getting their own culture. EDIT: Also make Karna's in-game brother his son.

 

[Flockingbird]

In the various culture windows, should "Martial: Men Only" be "Marshal: Men Only? If not, what does men only for martial mean?

From the dev diary “Cultures Are Forever:”

Noble Martial Custom
The martial custom decides which gender you may appoint as knights and commanders. As you’d expect, you can either appoint men, women, or both. We always felt that having the gender doctrine on faiths decide which characters can and cannot participate in battles felt off. The doctrine is about the right to rule and the holding of titles, more so than anything else. Just because you want the Equal doctrine to allow female rulers, doesn’t mean that women would automatically lead your armies or join you as knights. Revising cultures gave us the ample opportunity to move the functionality from faiths over to cultures. Which also means that you’ll have additional options in shaping your realm.

 

[wojtek704]

Will this update finally add sexual dimorphism? Pretending that women are as strong as men is silly.

Where game measures raw strength of characters ? Martial skill measure military knowledge of character (things like strategy, combat awareness, cunning and calm during battle,) while prowess determines how well they perform in individual combat, as well as duels. So raw strength is calculated in it but also characters agility, skill, equipment, experience ect. is consider.

 

[Vladisvlach]

I hope many many more regions are touched up with this culture map update.

 

[Tiax]

​

Indian History and Title Improvements
While looking over the subcontinent it was also clear that in some areas the title setup was also better suited for the early modern era, rather than the medieval era around Crusader Kings III start dates. A number of baronies have been renamed and reorganized into new counties, and a number of new vassals have been scripted in, especially for the 1066 start.
The starting presumptions about who controlled what in 1066 have also been revisited to bring things better in line with history and create a more interesting start. There are now more starting characters, both independent and vassals, and most kings will no longer start above their domain limit.

It's good to see that we're finally (a year after release!) getting some vassals added for the many Indian realms that currently have a dozen or more counties in the hands of the king. I honestly don't know how the current set up was deemed to be of suitable quality for the initial release, but I guess better late than never.

However, India is hardly the only region with this problem, and it sounds like it's being addressed in an ad-hoc manner. Is there some structured plan to address the current shortcomings of the history files, or should we only expect it to occur in bits and pieces when a dev happens to take notice of a particular region?

 

[Riamus]

It's good to see that we're finally (a year after release!) getting some vassals added for the many Indian realms that currently have a dozen or more counties in the hands of the king. I honestly don't know how the current set up was deemed to be of suitable quality for the initial release, but I guess better late than never.

However, India is hardly the only region with this problem, and it sounds like it's being addressed in an ad-hoc manner. Is there some structured plan to address the current shortcomings of the history files, or should we only expect it to occur in bits and pieces when a dev happens to take notice of a particular region?

I think you can expect it to be in bits and pieces except when a flavor DLC for an area is released as that will focus more heavily on completing things for that given area. I'd assume history files will be a free update that coincides with the flavor DLC for that area.

 

[Tiax]

I think you can expect it to be in bits and pieces except when a flavor DLC for an area is released as that will focus more heavily on completing things for that given area. I'd assume history files will be a free update that coincides with the flavor DLC for that area.

Would be very disappointed if this is the case - many of the most lacking areas, like Nubia, will likely never get a DLC.

 

[Voy]

I think you can expect it to be in bits and pieces except when a flavor DLC for an area is released as that will focus more heavily on completing things for that given area. I'd assume history files will be a free update that coincides with the flavor DLC for that area.

Since they did not have the time to update the database for the update name lists nor change anything with the Scandinavian setup with Northern Lords besides defined sexualities, I'd say this is not necessarily going to be a concurrent thing.

In fact, it seems like updating the database is the last priority since it's the easiest thing for the community to fix themselves.

 

[Nerewar90]

Soon.™

These are wrong times to use that ™

 

[Riamus]

Since they did not have the time to update the database for the update name lists nor change anything with the Scandinavian setup with Northern Lords besides defined sexualities, I'd say this is not necessarily going to be a concurrent thing.

In fact, it seems like updating the database is the last priority since it's the easiest thing for the community to fix themselves.

Good point.

I think the issue is that each developer has their own area of expertise and it doesn't include the entire map, so if you ask a few to work on improving the history files, it would require a huge amount of research if they aren't already familiar with the area. If you ask all of them to do it, you put everything else on hold until they are done. They could hire experts, but I don't think that's really something they'll do at this point. This means, most of the time, these updates come down to specific devs who know the area who see a problem and decide to fix it when they have free time. That, combined with some things being not entirely clear and up for debate, means these changes are only seen infrequently and piecemeal.

If anyone really wants an area's history files improved, what may work out to be the fastest option besides mods may be to compile research information about the changes you think need made and provide it in a suggestions post so they can see all the details in one place for the area without having to do a lot of their own research (they'll probably still do some verification research). I don't know if that will really help or not, but it's an option that may work out.

 

[Tiax]

If anyone really wants an area's history files improved, what may work out to be the fastest option besides mods may be to compile research information about the changes you think need made and provide it in a suggestions post so they can see all the details in one place for the area without having to do a lot of their own research (they'll probably still do some verification research). I don't know if that will really help or not, but it's an option that may work out.

I have never had success with this method. I've tried detailed suggestion posts as well as bug reports for minor, easy fixes.

 

[Hospodar]

We haven't added any new cultures other than the ones already mentioned in the DD.

Any plans on adding new cultures following the DLC's release?

And in particular, were there any specific reasons for deciding against bringing Albanian ('Arberian') culture back from CK2? Given that we have the Basque already, the isolated nature of the (proto-)Albanian language shouldn't be an issue from a design perspective for the new culture system.

 

[Black7Emperor7]

Is it possible we could get a look at a couple of the culture profiles (showing traditions etc) of some of the West African cultures please?

 

[Leader144]

May I ask of there will be also many QoL Fixes like filtering who may be your knight so that you won't have to manually check every time so you don't loose your son?

I know that there is a mod for that but i would like to see more enhancement on that kind of aspect in the vanilla game.

Cheers.

 

[Koyraboro]

Is it possible we could get a look at a couple of the culture profiles (showing traditions etc) of some of the West African cultures please?

They showcased the Charitable Tradition from Malinke at some point but I absolutely wanna see what they cooked for us in Africa...

 

[Vasiklios]

I really like the changes! I‘m glad Caranthanian is back!
But one question: I see South Slavic and West Slavic are two different (not mutually intelligable) languages in game. Yet the Vlachs speak a genericn“Latin“. Which other languages will be included in this „Latin“ category? Isn‘t Romanian/Aromanian much more distant from any other romance languages than the slavic languages are from one another?
I have to suppose that you have since changed Aromanian to be a seperate language which is not mutually intelligable with any other language. This is the only way I can make sense of South and West Slavic being two different languages.

Where is the source for those changes ? As Telugu is it's own language and not in a Dravidian language group, I think European cultures should get their own flavour.

 

[Vasiklios]

Actually I've just found out that Vlachs have a south slavic heritage (why ?) and Latin language (why others have specific languages ?) honestly this kind of dissapoints my view of how cultures would work now.

I hoped that cultures will be very unique, cultural acceptance now being based on a system of how related cultures are one to another, like Romanian language would give cultural acceptance boosts to both Romance languages and Slavic languages, CK2 even had a special cultural variable for related cultures that would give no negative opinion. It seems barebones as it looks now, it is good it is lovely and amazing, I was just hoping for something a bit more flexible.

 

[Vernichtere]

There is no guarantee that it will happen but we have added a number of possible divergence names for Russian culture for if a divergence happens in the game (Red Ruthenian, etc).

With regard to the division of the Russians, it should be noted that the division into Russians, Belarusians and Ukrainians took place much later. But theoretically one cannot speak of the split in that sense. Theoretically, the area around Novgorod was culturally relatively independent, as were other parts. So please do not orient yourself so much to today's result.

 

[Vernichtere]

Actually I've just found out that Vlachs have a south slavic heritage (why ?) and Latin language (why others have specific languages ?) honestly this kind of dissapoints my view of how cultures would work now.

I hoped that cultures will be very unique, cultural acceptance now being based on a system of how related cultures are one to another, like Romanian language would give cultural acceptance boosts to both Romance languages and Slavic languages, CK2 even had a special cultural variable for related cultures that would give no negative opinion. It seems barebones as it looks now, it is good it is lovely and amazing, I was just hoping for something a bit more flexible.

It remains relatively flexible. Just by being close, there is an effect of getting used to it and the common language actually gives bonuses from assimilation. The Romanians speak Latin and not a Slavic language. Which is rather good for the Romanians in the game. They always run the risk of disappearing relatively quickly anyway.