CK3 Dev Diary #60 - The Cost of Warfare

[IndigoRage]

I hope some news improving the Crusading Systems in the PDX Con. The custom crusading kingdoms was a very interesting mechanic discarded by CK3 and would be nice if that system could have a comeback.

I'm kind of against custom "Crusader Kingdoms" coming back because the way random "custom" generation is handled in Paradox games usually makes things feel very bland. Though if this could be paired with them having proper titular titles they can form via decision or w/e and I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[RhoxOS]

Speaking of factions, is executing a bunch of heathen prisoners a still viable strategy?

 

[johnty5]

I didn't mention it but now characters will never join a faction if they have a high opinion of their Liege.

I like that this is coming back. What's the opinion threshold?

 

[bsmithers333]

The Azure patch has been getting some great dev diaries! These are really thoughtful balancing changes.

Interestingly, the cost-scaling of mercenaries should be a huge buff to factions as well. On paper, a faction with even ~80% strength could be a real threat to the liege because of how Men-at-Arms caps work (e.g., a single 15k army from an emperor-tier character can't field as many Men-at-Arms as a 15k stack merged from 10 dukes). In practice, hiring a bunch of cheap mercenaries circumvents the MAA limits and can win faction wars >100%. Too often I find myself skipping the step where you try to dismantle factions with the sway/bribe/befriend interactions because the cost/benefit of hiring mercenaries and then revoking titles seems too good to pass up. Scaling mercenary costs would definitely make me think twice about finding a more peaceful route to realm stability.

 

[johnty5]

This all looks really great. There's been lots of talk about how to make holding a large empire together more difficult - and the faction changes really look like they'll make a difference to that.

Can I make a request re the war declaration display?

There are times when it's possible to bring up the declare war screen, but the "Declare War" button is greyed-out. It's usually because the claimant is a woman and the current owner is an adult male - meaning the claim can't be pressed at that time. I've seen quite a few posts on the forum and on Reddit since launch from confused players who don't understand why they can't declare war. Is there any chance you could add a tooltip to the greyed-out "Declare War" button explaining why it's greyed out in any given situation?

I'm sure for every player who asks the forums what's going on, there are a lot more who remain confused. I think it'd really help them out.

Example here (posted in the bug forum, despite it not being a bug - which I think underlines how confused some people were/are and how much a tooltip would help)

 

[Kazanov]

Everything that hurts blobbing is good for the game

Crusader Kings is a game about familiar drama and religious conflict more than a game about painting the map!

 

[Cymsdale]

View attachment 720469​

Cheers,

What's the secret attachment? Why must you toy with us?

 

[SausageSpirit]

i hope claimant factions are gonna be tweaked so the claimant is only someone willing to join the rebellion or something, ive had way too many wars where the declared claimant is fighting against the rebels trying to put them on the throne

 

[Eltener]

Hopefully no Greek Orthodox North Africa 100 years into every game now

 

[johnty5]

What's the secret attachment? Why must you toy with us?

It was a link to a Word doc that said "Victoria 3 confirmed"

 

[Koyraboro]

I'm kind of against custom "Crusader Kingdoms" coming back because the way random "custom" generation is handled in Paradox games usually makes things feel very bland. Though if this could be paired with them having proper titular titles they can form via decision or w/e and I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't know I liked the dynamic Crusader States. Also made conquest outside the war goal feel relevant

 

[GingerContingent]

Fantastic stuff!

I see that the ability to leave some of your levies to garrison a castle you just took is planned for a future patch, which is great because it seems like a logical extension of the new system. Also the faction changes are amazing, including the fact that people who like you won't join factions any more - that was pretty annoying.

There's one extremely minor gripe I have with the war declaration screen still: I wish the target area were highlighted in a third color (maybe purple since it's chromatically between red and blue) instead of the same color as my lands. It would help make it clear at a glance where me and my allies are, where the enemies are, and where the target area is without having to really do any parsing of the map. With the change to the target selection I think it will be less of an issue but still a pet peeve of mine.

 

[NarcomancerPL]

In addition to that, characters will be more inclined to join an Independence Faction if they own enough territories outside of the de jure area of the primary title of their Liege. Again, fast conquest will be more challenging, and consolidating your Realm will be more important.

I hope that will help with the Eastern Roman issue

 

[IndigoRage]

I don't know I liked the dynamic Crusader States. Also made conquest outside the war goal feel relevant

As I say. I don't mind them existing. It's a very cool concept. I just dislike that they're "dynamic", which is code for random and generic. I'd much rather have a "Principality of Antioch" or "County of Tripoli" that's a titular title actually programmed into the game than a dynamic "Random Crusader duchy of XYZ". At least actually pre-designed flags and names so they don't feel "random" if you know what I mean.

 

[TheMongoose]

Nice changes! I'd like to see levy reinforcement rates decreased as well.

 

[Tondro]

I have a question. Can AI make good use of change? From the user's point of view, I think this patch note is a very good change. It's going to be harder to get to a higher position and harder to maintain that position. As such, I think it will be harder for the AI monarch. Right now, with some parts of the Holy Roman Empire belonging to other imperial de jure, the roar of independence is inevitable. Users can be prevented by appropriate tools, but the AI monarch may just have to lift the white flag like France in WW2. After the update, I think other factions will be similar. Can the AI monarch manage the faction well?

 

[Voodoo Lilium]

Excellent idea to make mercenary hiring dependant on the client's size.
However i must say that the war declaration interface is perhaps too informative. I don't think a player should know (without the use of spies that is) the exact size of an enemies troop numbers and treasury amount. It makes things too easy and automatic. Perhaps you should have a close approximation of the troop numbers and treasury size, an approximation that will become more precise with the use of spies or some other mechanism.

If there was an espionage system, this would absolutely make sense. However, that doesn't exist (at least not yet), so there's no reason not to simply include all the info you already have access to.

I do agree with the general concept though. Maybe a future dlc

 

[Koyraboro]

If there was an espionage system, this would absolutely make sense. However, that doesn't exist (at least not yet), so there's no reason not to simply include all the info you already have access to.

I do agree with the general concept though. Maybe a future dlc

I mean we can always hope...it seems that they have rolled out some sort of intelligence system in at least two games (IR and Stellaris)

 

[Tiax]

Will this allow the pope to hire even more mercenaries than they already can, on the basis of having a very small realm?

On the factions change, I'm concerned that this creates a very all-or-nothing dynamic, in which either no faction can threaten you, or, once one rises up, a cascade begins that collapses the realm. The AI already struggles to deal with factions, and tends to do things like give large swathes of land to populist peasant leaders, leading to border gore and nonsensical, ahistorical outcomes. Will this change exacerbate this issue?

 

[grzegorz444]

I do not know whether I like the mercenary scaling. It's one step closer towards making gold insignificant (AKA medieval moneyless society). When the cost of everything scales up with any growth, there is no point in growing at all. It was especially irritating in late CK2: 'oh, now I make 3x more money, awesome! nevermind, now almost everything costs 3x more too...'. It was even more irritating to guess which values are scaled, which are not, and what is the scaling algorithm. At moments I felt that it would be better to express prices in terms of '% of yearly income', instead of actual gold

It make sens, because larger realem had more income, so now can hire more merceneries, it's obvious I know. But in general CK3 is a game, simulation so dev can, balance game in such way, maybe it's not historical, but it's simulation
And also you can spend money for development