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CK3 Dev Diary #5 - Schemes, Secrets and Hooks

Greetings, dear would-be kings and queens!

I’m Voffvoffhunden (also known as Petter on the discord or even in private life), one of the game’s content designers. Most people probably haven’t seen me around a lot, since I’ve been working on CK3 in secret since the release of HoI4. It’s been a long journey, but it’s been fun to see the game develop and grow over time, and it’s even more fun now that we get to talk about it to all of you! Today, said talking will be about a handful of new features that together cover some of the most important parts of the Crusader Kings experience. So where better to start than with murder?

We’ve all been there. A united Scandinavia is within your grasp, if only it hadn’t been for your meddling siblings! In CK2, these kinds of problems were handled with the gentle application of the “Murder Plot”, as it was popularly called. That system has been expanded and replaced with our brand new Scheme system!

For Crusader Kings 3, we wanted a system that was slightly easier to predict while keeping it unreliable in its outcome, so that murder remains an… option, rather than a safe bet. We also wanted to reduce the number of agents that you need, to make it more valuable to focus on a few candidates close to the victim, rather than having to send messengers with bags of gold to every single courtier and vassal in the land.

All this is achieved through our new Scheme system, where you can use target a character with a Scheme in accordance with your plans, recruit Agents, build up your Scheme Success Chance, and finally achieve your goal. I’ll try to illustrate how it all works by referring to that most iconic of all Schemes: Murder.

ongoing murder scheme USABLE.PNG



By now, the progress bar might have caught your eye. Each month, a Scheme has a chance of progressing one step, with the odds determined by the Owner’s Scheme Power, and the Target’s Scheme Resistance. These two values are based on the relevant Skill (Intrigue in the case of Murder) but are also affected by Spymasters (in the case of Intrigue-type schemes), various modifiers, and of course - the Owner’s Agents. The closer a Murder Scheme’s Agents are to the Target (and the better their Intrigue), the more Scheme Power they add.

Once the Scheme has progressed 10 steps, it tries to execute. The chance of a successful outcome is determined by the Scheme’s Success Chance (which has a slightly different set of modifiers to Scheme Power), while its Secrecy is used to check whether you are discovered or not when you try to execute.

If you’ve gathered capable agents and you’re lucky enough to not get caught, that inheritance will be as good as yours!

As the Scheme's Owner, you are protected from discovery until you actually attempt to execute your scheme. This protection does not extend to your agents, however! And being discovered as a participant in a murder plot is rarely good for one’s reputation, or for one’s habit of seeing sunlight every day.

It is worth noting that when the existence of a Scheme is discovered in this way, its chance of success drops significantly, as the appointed victim makes every preparation possible to foil your plans.

On the other hand, perhaps you’re just not the murderous type? Thankfully the Scheme system is so flexible that it can be used for all manner of long-term interactions. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Seduction makes a return as a Scheme. Seduce does not use Agents in the way Murder does, and it’s not dangerous in the same way… unless your target happens to be married, that is. Achieving success - determined by things such as your skill at seduction, their sexual preference, and whether you get along whatsoever - can net you a new Lover.
I know where your minds are going at that thought, and yes - it’s a great way of acquiring Agents for your Murder Scheme!

Sway is another returning favourite that’s now a Scheme. Sway also doesn't use Agents but largely relies on your Diplomacy instead. It simply progresses towards its execution and then checks whether you successfully improve their opinion or not. Then it loops around and starts over, building up the target’s opinion of you until you stop it -- or commit some horrible diplomatic faux pas...

To add to the convenience, all characters can run one Hostile Scheme (such as murder) and one Personal Scheme (such as Seduction or Sway) at the same time. Unfortunately, you can only target a given character with a single scheme at a time, so you won’t be able to both murder and seduce the same person, just to see which one pays off sooner. You have to do one after the other.

Now, as I indicated earlier, trying to murder someone is usually illegal. (Fun fact: according to Paradox’s legal department this is also the case in real life.) However, if you’re not discovered when you do it, you’re off the hook, right? Not so! Let me introduce you to something that will change the way you nervously glance over your shoulder forever: Secrets!

hooks and secrets USABLE.PNG



Characters can acquire Secrets when they do something that is frowned upon or outright illegal. You want to keep your own Secrets close to your chest, while it can be of great benefit to uncover the Secrets of others. By sending your Spymaster to… well, spy, it’s possible to find out what is going on with your annoying vassals, your threatening neighbour, or even at your own court!

So what do you do when you discover a Secret? One possible course of action is to expose it for the world to see, of course! This will apply various effects depending on how serious the Secret is. Being the King’s secret lover will cause a scandal, being a Secret Deviant will leave you with the Deviant trait, while being exposed as a secret murderer is exactly the excuse your Liege has been waiting for to throw you in the dungeon. Not to mention those horrible Kinslaying penalties (“Hey, they’re my family, and I choose what to do with them, okay?”).

The other possible course of action ties into our new evolution of CK2’s Favors. This is now a generalised system called “Hooks”, which come in various flavours. Favors is one of these, while another might represent the loyalty that a House member owes to the House Head.

A Hook is used to force characters to do what you want them to, such as accepting marriage offers, changing your Feudal Contract, or forcing them to join your Scheme as an Agent…

forcing prince bishop to accept USABLE.png



There are Weak and Strong Hooks, where weak Hooks are used up once expended, while Strong Hooks only get a cooldown, ready to be used again later. The source of a Hook determines its strength, and the strongest Hooks come from Blackmailing someone over their most horrible secrets…

blackmail over incest USABLE.PNG



You might want to keep hold of a Hook once you have it, though, rather than spending it. Having a Hook on someone can prevent them from taking hostile actions towards you -- particularly useful when dealing with pesky vassals. Be warned, however. While having a strong Blackmail Hook on someone really gives you the upper hand, it will be lost if the Secret you are blackmailing over is exposed.

There are many types of Schemes, Secrets and Hooks in the game, and while it would be entirely possible to list them all, I think it would be way more fun for you to gradually discover them through future dev diaries or once the game is released.

Hopefully, it’s clear by now how everything I have talked about hangs together. Maybe you want to murder someone, so you need some Agents. However, no one wants to join, so you dig for Secrets that can be converted into Blackmail Hooks. Meanwhile, you’re running a Personal Scheme (such as Sway) to increase another potential Agent’s opinion of you, so that you can convince them that -- yes, their Liege really is that bad.

But what if everyone hates you (on account of all the murderin’) and you’re unable to find a single blackmail-worthy speck of dirt on anyone?

Well, in Crusader Kings 3 there might be something you can do about that…

Fabricate Hook teaser USABLE.PNG
 

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Will the homosexual trait affect who you can seduce? Also will that be a trait visible or can it be hidden?

They've said a couple of times in this thread that sexuality isn't handled by traits any more. I don't yet know whether it will be a visible characteristic. But they have said in this thread that you won't usually be able to start a seduction scheme against someone you're not at least somewhat oriented towards, and it can't succeed unless they're at least somewhat oriented towards you. (We know from elsewhere that there will be asexual characters, who will presumably be almost wholly resistant to seduction.)

Wait a minute, can't you seduce your opponent's wife while you conspire to murder her husband?

Why? Uther Pendragon did it!
You can have one personal scheme and one general scheme concurrently, and seduction is personal while murder is general. So you absolutely can do what you describe!

nd
 
Really empressive,
I hope this will work also speaking about elections, g.e Byz elections to Emperor
 
It would be cool that if you have a very high Intrigue score (or your Spymaster does) you can fabricate a "scapegoat" character that can take the fall for the scheme if the scheme is revealed. Maybe it can be one of the Agents, maybe it's someone else.

Think Tyrion at the Purple Wedding.
 
This system sounds so good!

My biggest concern is that the effects of having your secrets exposed really is bad enough that you would do these other things to keep it secret.
 
It would be cool that if you have a very high Intrigue score (or your Spymaster does) you can fabricate a "scapegoat" character that can take the fall for the scheme if the scheme is revealed. Maybe it can be one of the Agents, maybe it's someone else.

Think Tyrion at the Purple Wedding.

A plot within a plot! I think that's beautiful.
 
So let's say I use a hook on AI Duke to get a marriage going between your character heir and his daughter. Will said AI Duke then be more likely to plot murder on my character or his son to undo the marriage?

Speaking of marriage - will there be any event related to purity of wife or something? Some cultures and religions might have a thing for virginity. Also knowing your character wife or someone else wife is not a pure maiden could be a just reason for divorce.
 
I can't quite make out what it is you're trying to highlight in your post. Guess my eyes aren't what they used to be :cool:

I believe they’re interpreting the paragraph ‘A Hook is used to force characters to do what you want them to, such as accepting marriage offers, changing your Feudal Contract...’ to mean that the relationship between a liege and vassal is now specific to those individuals, with specific details and obligations such as tax amount, levy amount, title etc, rather than the CK2 system of every vassalage of the same government type having roughly the same terms & obligations.

IE; two different Feudal vassals could have different obligations in providing troops and taxes, rather than laws adjusting all Feudal vassals at once.

I assume this isn’t the case, but I’d be ecstatic if so.

Ooooh, this one would be very controversial. Some players like the vagueness, and some players absolutely hate not knowing exact dates of durations...

Perhaps it could be a game rule?
 
#1 plot I've always wanted in CK2 but was never added, will there be a scheme to try and disinherit your heir? It would be great for simulating when a stronger second son took power but the better claimant survived to cause trouble later, but it's really hard to do in CK2 as it stands. I hope to see this.

Still, the consolidation of these systems looks friggin' great. Very excited to see what else you've got going.
 
Some schemes I’d like to see -

Hostile;
  • Usurp throne (More successful if supported by vassals)
  • Imperial coup (More success if supported by powerful commanders)
  • Force law change
  • Frame for crime (possibly previous plots?)
  • Accuse of heresy
  • Steal (artefact)
  • Kidnap (character)
  • Arrest/banish (character)
  • See (character) disinherited
  • General intra-dynastic/house schemes (having a character cast out, getting a bastard legitimised, etc)
  • Schemes involving the Church (Rigging papal elections? Establishing anti-pope?)
Personal;
  • Befriend
  • Turn against (character)
  • Convert to religion/heresy
  • General societies related schemes
  • Generally convincing characters to support you with a specific thing (HRE election, declaration of war, etc)
 
Some schemes I’d like to see -

Hostile;
  • Usurp throne (More successful if supported by vassals)
  • Imperial coup (More success if supported by powerful commanders)
  • Force law change
  • Frame for crime (possibly previous plots?)
  • Accuse of heresy
  • Steal (artefact)
  • Kidnap (character)
  • Arrest/banish (character)
  • See (character) disinherited
  • General intra-dynastic/house schemes (having a character cast out, getting a bastard legitimised, etc)
  • Schemes involving the Church (Rigging papal elections? Establishing anti-pope?)
Personal;
  • Befriend
  • Turn against (character)
  • Convert to religion/heresy
  • General societies related schemes
  • Generally convincing characters to support you with a specific thing (HRE election, declaration of war, etc)

I really like the kidnap scheme - something that was in Sengoku. I totally see myself playing as a pagan or tribal lord, or as an heretic christian for all that matter, and kidnap the king's only daughter to sire the future heir to the throne!
 
Is there any particular reason why a murder plot leader should be protected from discovery before attempting to execute an attempt? It doesn't seem realistic to be so safe just because you are still laying the trap.

I hope there will be a larger range of assassination attempt choices and outcomes, such as choosing when and how to do it, as well as having a chance of murdering the wrong target, etc.

It would be nice to be able to get personal retainers experienced in ``handling this business'' that you can send to foreign courts to carry out the attempt personally.
Should put high risk and job done with all inclusive to I want to keep it secret at all cost like the guy that used the snake instead of using a dagger on the baby. And the high risk is to do it yourself the kill mission and agent are here to hasten the timer of murder time. Average is your vanilla CK2 plot and low risk you make your agent keep the hat but plotting go very slowly as you never contact them without a middleman.
 
I think you should have the ability to conduct in court and out of court schemes at the same time. This idea that you can't put time into plotting the murder of your idiot brother whose idling around your court being a nuisance because you're scheming the murder of a nearby King that may take months to see fruition seems kind of unrealistic. Also in court plots should resolve faster than out of court ones.
 
I think plot system could be improved with spynetwork system where you can set up or order mutitudes of plots by giving command to spymaster and he finds agents so you dont have make your hands dirty.

Also could be possible to send your agents in other courts who set up you plots there, sway people seduce people and triger murder or kidnaping plots.

Also you could give your agents a orders like sway this charcter to join a plot or seduce this character so i can get hook on her.
 
Excellent post @Voffvoffhunden - Whenever the CK3 and Stellaris Dev Diaries go live, I always take the time to read them out when I am streaming. Everyone seems pretty stoked about the upcoming changes, and it sounds like Schemes, Secrets and Hooks are precisely what I was hoping they would be.

Not sure if the question was answered yet, but I am very curious if being a bastard can be a secret, what impacts it could have on being revealed. And most importantly, can you fabricate a false hook about someone being a bastard?
 
Not at the moment, no. We don't want every agent to immediately turn around and Blackmail you :p
Though some persons would be that depraved enough.

Then, could I use Hooks to force a sexual intercourse?
 
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Would it be possible to "rush" a scheme, perhaps for a significantly reduced chance of success (based on where you are in the progress chart) and much more chance of discovery? I can think of situations where you haven't had a chance to put everything into place, but you need to go now, or you'll lose your chance. The wife of your older brother (the King) is about to give birth, and that child will take precedence over you in the succession, so even if you're not ready, you have to try for it. (Make it impossible to rush, or impossible to succeed until two or three progress marks have been gained so you can't just spam schemes in a ploy to assassinate someone.)