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CK3 Dev Diary #2- The Medieval Map

Hello everyone!

I would like to take a moment to talk about the map of Crusader Kings 3, what the vision for the map is, and how it is different from Crusader Kings 2.

Let’s start with our ambitions. CK2 had several parts of the map that was outdated, and to be frank, a bit underdeveloped. When we started to update the map for CK3, we knew that we wanted to take a pass at everything, do additional research, and update the different areas accordingly. This goes for the entire De Jure title hierarchy, so there are several new kingdoms and duchies present. In terms of scope, the map will roughly match that of CK2. I know I will disappoint those of you hoping for China, but, sadly, it will not be on the map. We will however, have a few new additions: the entirety of Tibet will be present, unlike CK2 where the most eastern parts were excluded, and sub-Saharan Africa is also extended, where we’ve gone all the way to the Nigerian coast.

When setting the map visuals, province layout, rivers, and more, the focus has always been on clarity. The map should be easy to read and get information from. For example, you should be able to read most of the terrain simply by looking at the map, without the need to click on the province, or tooltip it, in order to find that out, while rivers should be easy to see and let you know if you will cross one when moving armies around.

We represent the map on three different zoom levels. When zoomed far out, the map will turn into an actual paper map, allowing for an easy overview and stylish screenshots. Zoom in a bit and you will have the 3D map, with the typical political overlay, great for interacting with your vassals and other realms. Zoom in even further and you’ll see the names of all the counties along with the terrain, as we strip away the realm colors. Perfect for moving armies around and knowing where to pick your battles, without the need to switch around to different map modes (but don’t worry, we still have several map modes for easily accessing different information).

One of the most notable changes is how we handle Baronies. In CK2, Counties were the smallest entity we had on the map, a province if you will, with several Baronies represented through the interface of the County view. In CK3, we took the next logical step and made Baronies into their own provinces. We have been able to create a map with much more granularity and better accuracy. Most Counties will normally consist of two to five Baronies, with some exceptions. The amount of provinces will be noticeable when waging war, as it offers a larger degree of movement for you armies (more on that in the future).

dd_02_baronies.png


To give you a good idea of the increased province density, here is a comparison of the British Islands in CK2 and CK3, being on the left and right side, respectively:

dd_02_ck2_ck3_comparison.png


Before you all go nuts about playable baronies: No. You cannot play as a Baron. The lowest playable rank will still be that of a Count. The emphasis will therefore be on the Counties rather than the individual Baronies. As such, Baronies exist with a few things in mind. For example, they can never leave a county. This means Counties stay the same over time, avoiding weird splits where a single barony goes independent or to another realm (reducing that hideous border-gore ever-so-slightly). The number of Baronies within a County is one factor that represents its wealth and how “good” it is. Another important factor is the terrain. A County with a lot of Desert will not be as beneficial as one with a lot of Farmlands for example.

Speaking of terrain, we have several different terrain types spread out across the map. Instead of having a single terrain spread out across large areas of the map, we differentiate between similar terrain types by separating them, such as Forest and Taiga, or Plains and Drylands. Not only does it make the map look and feel distinct in different parts of the world, they also have a different impact on gameplay.

dd_02_england.png


dd_02_maghreb.png


Then we have Impassable Terrain. These are far more frequent, and in many cases much larger, than you will be used to from CK2. We’ve essentially used these for any area that we consider uninhabited enough to warrant it not being part of an existing County. Some areas have plenty of smaller impassable provinces, such as the mountains surrounding Bohemia, while others have fewer and far larger pieces of inhospitable land, such as the deserts of Arabia and Syria. Impassable Terrain cannot be traversed by armies, often creating bottlenecks that you’ll have to pass through or perhaps even choose to go around, should it be heavily fortified.

dd_02_impassable.png


That’s it for now. I hope you enjoyed this early sneak peak of the map and I'll be sure to show more to you in the future!
 
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The map should be easy to read and get information from. For example, you should be able to read most of the terrain simply by looking at the map,

It’s 2019 and you are coming to this basic fundamental of game design now?

Paradox is great at detailed modifiers and tiny mathematical details however deeply lacks a superior game design mentality.

In any big studio and games from great directors one thing is clear that when something happens in game, game makes sure you feel it. Since even hoi2 and vic 2 times when something happens you get the same criminally dull notifications pop up with generic messages. When a marriage happens, cheering crowds and music should play the semi-animated happy couple’s drawings should appear on sides of the message etc... When a war is declared the whole UI should go red or something. To give you a short example just look at latest Tropico game, play that game and you will feel like a communist first time seeing New York. Or just look ar CDPR game Gwent and you will realise why CDPR is dramatically more prominent, famous, big and rich than PDX. Gwent is not a big fame with big funding, what makes Gwent great anyway is pure superior game design philosophy.

Because when it comes to music, drawings, concept art, sound design, ui design, the difference between Paradox games and Tropico is like communist Siberia vs New York. Game interactions severely lacks basic extra sounds, colors, drawings etc that doesn’t really cost much effort or funding but makes big difference.

In a well designed game when something happens or you focus on something by zooming or clicking etc... You should be constantly immersed to it by rich sound effects amd simple yet very effective drawings and simple fx. And the worst part is this is simple and relatively cheap yet effective yet you fail to implement properly which is the main reason this studio and game genre is not more popular than it is now.

I’m not here to tell you what you should specifically do I’m just reminding you just how terribly bad your studio is at special effects game design and concept work in general.
 
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Hey guys! The map looks stunning!

Sorry to be picky, but just becuase you're so awesome at the tiny details in the counties of what I assume is North and South Dúin (Down) in Ireland is a bit weird. The counties split the non-existant Ards peninsula, which should run along Strangford loch (from the Norse Strangfjord fun fact) which now appears to be a lake. This period is literally the epitome of activity in this area, the settling of Ardes, the Viking incursions at Movilla and across the North of Ireland is so rich!

TLDR; The lake in the east of the North of Ireland should be a Loch, the entire peninsula should be a part of the northern county, or a separate county of its own.

Loving it so far guys, I may cryogenically freeze myself until the game is ready.
 
A little concerned that the map is too busy, reminds me of Imperator, and not in a good way. Excited about the strategic implications but I really hope sieging provinces isn't as tedious as it is in Imperator. Yeah, it adds a layer of strategy, but tbh it's kind of tedious.
 
Hello everyone!

I would like to take a moment to talk about the map of Crusader Kings 3, what the vision for the map is, and how it is different from Crusader Kings 2.

Let’s start with our ambitions. CK2 had several parts of the map that was outdated, and to be frank, a bit underdeveloped. When we started to update the map for CK3, we knew that we wanted to take a pass at everything, do additional research, and update the different areas accordingly. This goes for the entire De Jure title hierarchy, so there are several new kingdoms and duchies present. In terms of scope, the map will roughly match that of CK2. I know I will disappoint those of you hoping for China, but, sadly, it will not be on the map. We will however, have a few new additions: the entirety of Tibet will be present, unlike CK2 where the most eastern parts were excluded, and sub-Saharan Africa is also extended, where we’ve gone all the way to the Nigerian coast.

When setting the map visuals, province layout, rivers, and more, the focus has always been on clarity. The map should be easy to read and get information from. For example, you should be able to read most of the terrain simply by looking at the map, without the need to click on the province, or tooltip it, in order to find that out, while rivers should be easy to see and let you know if you will cross one when moving armies around.

We represent the map on three different zoom levels. When zoomed far out, the map will turn into an actual paper map, allowing for an easy overview and stylish screenshots. Zoom in a bit and you will have the 3D map, with the typical political overlay, great for interacting with your vassals and other realms. Zoom in even further and you’ll see the names of all the counties along with the terrain, as we strip away the realm colors. Perfect for moving armies around and knowing where to pick your battles, without the need to switch around to different map modes (but don’t worry, we still have several map modes for easily accessing different information).

One of the most notable changes is how we handle Baronies. In CK2, Counties were the smallest entity we had on the map, a province if you will, with several Baronies represented through the interface of the County view. In CK3, we took the next logical step and made Baronies into their own provinces. We have been able to create a map with much more granularity and better accuracy. Most Counties will normally consist of two to five Baronies, with some exceptions. The amount of provinces will be noticeable when waging war, as it offers a larger degree of movement for you armies (more on that in the future).

View attachment 523607

To give you a good idea of the increased province density, here is a comparison of the British Islands in CK2 and CK3, being on the left and right side, respectively:

View attachment 523608

Before you all go nuts about playable baronies: No. You cannot play as a Baron. The lowest playable rank will still be that of a Count. The emphasis will therefore be on the Counties rather than the individual Baronies. As such, Baronies exist with a few things in mind. For example, they can never leave a county. This means Counties stay the same over time, avoiding weird splits where a single barony goes independent or to another realm (reducing that hideous border-gore ever-so-slightly). The number of Baronies within a County is one factor that represents its wealth and how “good” it is. Another important factor is the terrain. A County with a lot of Desert will not be as beneficial as one with a lot of Farmlands for example.

Speaking of terrain, we have several different terrain types spread out across the map. Instead of having a single terrain spread out across large areas of the map, we differentiate between similar terrain types by separating them, such as Forest and Taiga, or Plains and Drylands. Not only does it make the map look and feel distinct in different parts of the world, they also have a different impact on gameplay.

View attachment 523605

View attachment 523604

Then we have Impassable Terrain. These are far more frequent, and in many cases much larger, than you will be used to from CK2. We’ve essentially used these for any area that we consider uninhabited enough to warrant it not being part of an existing County. Some areas have plenty of smaller impassable provinces, such as the mountains surrounding Bohemia, while others have fewer and far larger pieces of inhospitable land, such as the deserts of Arabia and Syria. Impassable Terrain cannot be traversed by armies, often creating bottlenecks that you’ll have to pass through or perhaps even choose to go around, should it be heavily fortified.

View attachment 523606

That’s it for now. I hope you enjoyed this early sneak peak of the map and I'll be sure to show more to you in the future!
Great dev diary!

I know this is a little off topic, but are you planning on making any changes to how feudal relationships are represented in game? For instance, in real life Henry II and other English kings were independent monarchs as the kings of England, but as dukes of Normandy and other French duchies they were also vassals of the French king, and were expected to pay homage to him. However, in-game, there's not really anything to represent that, and the King of England is instead wholly independent. Is there going to be any representation for that kind of complicated, nuanced relationship, or are feudal relationship going to be linear as they were in CK2?

If it's not something that you've thought about much yet, then I'd like to suggest you do - it's doubtless a tricky feature to work out and implement, but in terms of simulating medieval politics it would be really fantastic, and enthuse the player base about the ways in which CK3 is mechanically superior to CK2.
 
This is an old trope that survives in movies and videogames alike. Maghrebin flora is quite similar to Mediterranean flora (*shock* I know!), so anything you see in Sourther Italy, Spain or Greece is also what you find in Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. That is cork trees, olive trees, oaks, conifers in high altitudes. Yes you would find date palm trees deeper into the desert, but the game makes it seem like everything was covered with palm trees.
Absolutely agree.
 
Too bad :(
Can we create new baronnies?
MM That a good question. I Think 1 Castel per county would be good . Even its a EU4 Mechanic Like a fort. Meaning if Maintenance is up you can't just go through it in war time you have to attack it or go around. (Maintenance would just mean the garrison and defenses are up . Your levy's would always be available. But I think being able to build or zoning land for a couple of Abbys and Cities would be good. But maybe Estates or Villas (NOT like Eu4 Estates) that you can build rather than more Castles?? ya? So Castle (Military) Temple(Religion) Citys (Tax base economy) Estates or ViLLas (Natural Resources Economy) Of course all would give some Military like they do in CK2. Or go towards more a Retune System based on Food and population?
 
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It’s 2019 and you are coming to this basic fundamental of game design now?

Paradox is great at detailed modifiers and tiny mathematical details however deeply lacks a superior game design mentality.

In any big studio and games from great directors one thing is clear that when something happens in game, game makes sure you feel it. Since even hoi2 and vic 2 times when something happens you get the same criminally dull notifications pop up with generic messages. When a marriage happens, cheering crowds and music should play the semi-animated happy couple’s drawings should appear on sides of the message etc... When a war is declared the whole UI should go red or something. To give you a short example just look at latest Tropico game, play that game and you will feel like a communist first time seeing New York. Or just look ar CDPR game Gwent and you will realise why CDPR is dramatically more prominent, famous, big and rich than PDX. Gwent is not a big fame with big funding, what makes Gwent great anyway is pure superior game design philosophy.

Because when it comes to music, drawings, concept art, sound design, ui design, the difference between Paradox games and Tropico is like communist Siberia vs New York. Game interactions severely lacks basic extra sounds, colors, drawings etc that doesn’t really cost much effort or funding but makes big difference.

In a well designed game when something happens or you focus on something by zooming or clicking etc... You should be constantly immersed to it by rich sound effects amd simple yet very effective drawings and simple fx. And the worst part is this is simple and relatively cheap yet effective yet you fail to implement properly which is the main reason this studio and game genre is not more popular than it is now.

I’m not here to tell you what you should specifically do I’m just reminding you just how terribly bad your studio is at special effects game design and concept work in general.
Consummation of marriages? The sounds O ah O ah baby baby O ah LOL:rolleyes:
 
Thank you! I believe we manage to settle on a font that not only looks good, but feel very medieval as well.


Sadly not, no.


That is indeed the case. Major rivers have designated fords that allow for crossing.
So... What about harbors? With the new province system, will them be tied to baronies?
 
...Before you all go nuts about playable baronies: No. You cannot play as a Baron. The lowest playable rank will still be that of a Count...
May I request that this be fairly easy to mod in? There are a few efforts to allow baron level and even landless characters in the modding community, but some run into engine limitations. I understand you don't want to make this kind of thing part of the base game, but I for one would love it if the engine at least supported it for the modding community.
 
The state of the castles and round palisades are currently very mobile phone game, definitely hope that changes and please make that moddable at least. When I first saw a screen shot and hadn't read the article yet on the day of announcement I honestly thought this was a mobile game. It still looks like one.

I'm just being honest about what it looks like to me, I won't be swayed by what another person thinks. The trees are the worst atm, let's hope this is super alpha placeholder stuff.

I do like that there are more counties and that baronies are shown on the map and are territory that can be occupied. I do hope that we can choose what type of building to put in the empty ones and not have to build x because there is y in the territory.

I hope we can create combined arms forces, you know, like real life. At least have units as diverse as the Total War series in 2001. I want to decide if I want pikemen, sergeants, longbow, pavise crossbowmen etc, and the multiple types of cavalry. For the speed players who just play to take screenshots of empire names, let the AI build their armies for them. The rest of us Paradox players want the detail and immersion.

I don't understand people down voting others who ask for optional settings and content, I don't mind any additional gameplay I don't like as long as I can leave it off if I don't like it.

Not sold on CK3 at the moment: Change my Mind Paradox
 
Will the eastern Slavic region be redesigned? Or it will still be all 'russian' and 'polish'?

For example, Kiev. How could it be of a russian culture if the Kievan royals founded Moscow in the 13th century which was the start of the russian culture as it is, and so on, and so forth.

I deeply enjoy playing CK2 but I always was a bit bitter that the eastern European region was represented so poorly, despite very old historical and cultural roots.
 
I know it was said that the development of CK3 started before Imperator, but with Imperator already released with it's amazing map, it's now hard to see the CK3 map as an upgrade. I mean, it's good and all, but the Imperator map is even better and by the time CK3 will be released, we'll have 2 years of getting used to the beauty of the Imperator map...
 
When I first began reading the DD and saw there will be no playable baronies, I was a bit disappointed. I had dreamed that CK3 would involve deeper gameplay mechanics, to include playable baronies (and even unlanded nobles). The idea of a fresh start was (and still is) exciting and the possibilities were (are) endless. However, even with this lingering disappointment, I pressed on and continued to read the DD...

The decision to bring barony-level holdings onto the world map sounded like a step in the right direction! More provinces with more terrain differential sounds interesting and will definitely make the army management aspect of the game more engaging. Things were looking up after my initial disappointment... that is, until I saw that these baronies were perma-tied to their de jure county.... WTF Paradox?

Not being able to play as a baron is a minor disappointment, but tying these baronies to de jure counties is a HUGE mistake. Not only is it extremely ahistorical, but it goes against the primary game fundamental of title inheritance! Please reconsider this Paradox.

P.S. I'm totally digging the dynasty system changes talked about in the first DD!