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CK3 Dev Diary #19: Factions and Civil Wars

Hello kings and queens, dukes and duchesses! I am back with another Dev Diary, and today we’re going to be talking about Factions and Civil Wars in Crusader Kings III!

Much like in CK2, vassals who are unhappy with the current state of affairs in the realm will create a Faction that other vassals can then join. Factions that grow large enough will eventually deliver an ultimatum to their liege, demanding certain concessions in exchange for continued peace.

Anatomy of a Faction
DD_WM_ExampleFaction.png

[A screenshot showing a Claimant Faction with Faction Members, Discontent, and Military Power displayed]

All Factions have a Military Power rating, which is a ratio between the combined military strength of all members and the military strength of their liege. Factions also have a Discontent score, which gauges how close the Faction is to sending their ultimatum.

Factions will begin accruing Discontent once their Military Power goes over a certain threshold, typically 80%. Stronger Factions acquire Discontent rapidly in an attempt to seize the moment, while weaker Factions hem and haw a little in the hopes that more supporters will join their cause. Either way, once Discontent reaches 100% the Faction will soon deliver their ultimatum; at that point, their liege must either accept their demands or fight all joined faction members in a civil war.

Civil Wars
DD_WM_CivilWarBorders.png

[A screenshot of the map showing several Faction Members at war with their liege, who is the player]

Unlike in CK2, when a civil war is declared faction members do not form a new temporary realm. While they nominally remain vassals of their liege, they will immediately stop providing taxes and levies to them, and their liege will lose access to certain powers (such as imprisonment).

During a civil war the faction members turn hostile to both their liege and all non-faction vassals, though they will focus on fighting their liege. The exact war goal varies depending on the Faction type, but both sides earn war score by defeating hostile armies and sieging down hostile provinces.

Once one side emerges triumphant, they will enforce their demands. A victorious Faction will enforce their ultimatum with some additional concessions thrown in, while a victorious liege will imprison all faction members and gain title revocation reasons against them. If a white peace is agreed to, things largely go back to the way they were, though the liege gains an imprisonment reason against all the rebels. Actually imprisoning the rebels is another matter entirely, as a failed imprisonment attempt can trigger another rebellion.

Types of Factions
There are currently 5 distinct types of Factions, each of which has its own goals.

  • The Independence Faction, seeking to gain independence from their liege.
  • Claimant Factions, seeking to replace their liege with a new one.
  • The Liberty Faction, seeking to reduce Crown Authority in the realm.
  • Populist Factions, seeking to form a new realm of their religion and culture.
  • The Peasant Faction, seeking to pay fewer taxes to their liege.

Vassals only join The Independence Faction if they feel like they do not belong in their liege’s realm. This can be due to a variety of reasons, but it generally boils down to a combination of three major factors: not being a de jure vassal of their liege, not sharing their liege’s culture [group], and their religious hostility towards their liege (more on that in a future Dev Diary!). As a result, Independence Factions tend to be ‘clumpy’, forming distinct regional blocs within a realm.

DD_WM_IndependenceWarTerms.png

[A screenshot of an ongoing Independence Faction War against the HRE, showing the clustering of rebels within Italy]

Claimant Factions, on the other hand, are all about opinion. Vassals who personally dislike their liege while still feeling like they belong to their liege’s realm will favor this type of Faction. Of course, Claimant Factions are also an area where opportunistic vassals can push to acquire titles for themselves or their relatives!

The Liberty Faction is the place for vassals who are almost happy with the current state of affairs. They want to lower either the realm’s crown authority laws or their obligations to their liege, and are typically the easiest Faction to manage.

Populist and Peasant Factions are special in that they are not created by unhappy vassals. Instead, they are created by unhappy counties.

DD_WM_CountyFactions.png

[A screenshot of the Faction Tab showing an active Kurdish Apostolic Populist Faction and a Peasant Rabble Faction]

Much like vassals, counties have an opinion of their holder which is influenced by culture, religion, events, and war. When the opinion of a county drops too low, they will join one of these two factions. Like the other factions, if these factions gain enough Discontent, they will send an ultimatum, and will revolt if the ultimatum is refused. This completely replaces the random province revolt chance that existed in CK2 — gone are the days of “Duke McPeasantFace has declared the 19th Orthodox Uprising on you.”

Populist Factions are the more dangerous type of county faction and form when counties wish to be governed by a ruler of their own culture and/or religion. While Populist Factions are created by and primarily consist of counties, sympathetic vassals in your realm may also pledge loyalty to their cause. A successful Populist revolt will cause all member counties and vassals to break away and form a new realm!

While an Independence Faction causes all members split off into their own separate realms, a Populist Faction will create a single realm with all members united under one ruler. That ruler will always share the Faction’s culture and religion, and as a hero of the liberation war they will almost always be a competent commander. In addition, a successful Populist Faction will automatically usurp or create an appropriate title for their leader to hold, which can even generate new Kingdom-tier titles in certain circumstances!

DD_WM_SuccessfulPopularRevolt.png

[A screenshot of the Kingdom of Jüterbog, split off of the HRE by a successful Polabian Popular Revolt]

All of this taken together means that any realm formed by Popular Revolt will end up being a formidable foe that likely has several De Jure claims on its neighbors. This can substantially alter the balance of power in your region — even if you weren't the initial faction target!

On the other hand, Peasant Rabble are the simplest and least dangerous type of Faction. Unlike all other Factions, there is no minimum Military Power requirement for the Peasant Rabble to revolt, and its Discontent will always tick upwards at a constant rate. When the Rabble inevitably revolt, they will almost certainly be weaker than the liege they are targeting — but don’t let that lull you into a false sense of security! Every time the Rabble’s forces occupy a county, all of that county’s levies will immediately join them. What started as a minor uprising can quickly balloon out of control if left unchecked! Luckily their only demands are to pay reduced taxes and provide fewer levies to their liege, which is an annoying if manageable setback.

Faction Management

So as a ruler, how do you manage all of these Factions? Well, there are several ways!

For starters, any alliances you have made with your vassals will prevent them from joining a Faction against you. This makes arranged marriages within your realm valuable even if you don’t benefit as much militarily as you would from a foreign marriage.

Adding to this, any vassals you have a hook on will be unable to join a Faction against you, whether that hook is due to them owing you a favor or due to blackmail.

You can also attempt to intimidate vassals away from their Faction, as a high Dread will lower their willingness to be in one. If the threat of imprisonment and torture doesn’t work, actual imprisonment will — vassals in your dungeons can not be part of any Faction. Just be careful, as an unjust imprisonment attempt may provoke a powerful Faction into revolting early, regardless of their Discontent!

DD_WM_FactionRetaliation.png

[A screenshot warning the player that imprisoning this vassal may trigger a Faction Revolt]

Finally, if all else fails you can actually address the grievances your vassals have with you. Vassals who are happy enough will never join any kind of faction, which means improving their opinion of you and fixing structural issues in your realm will ensure that nobody challenges your rule!

That is all for this week, but I have an extra special treat in store you next time when we finally begin diving into how religion works in Crusader Kings III!

Blooper Reel: The Extremely Popular Revolt
Very early on in CK3's development, I started looking into ways to make Popular Revolts more challenging. No matter how large a revolt got, their forces would always be spread out across all of their member counties, making it trivial to pick off their armies one at a time.

To help remedy this, instead of letting each county spawn its own army I made it so each duchy would spawn a single army based on the combined military power of all faction counties inside of it. However, I made a mistake — instead of adding up the military power of all counties in a duchy, I accidentally added up the military power of all counties in the world... per duchy.

DD_WM_Blooper_RevoltingPeasantsCut.png


It turns out that no matter how many knights you have or how good of a commander you are, 8.8 million angry peasants will overwhelm you in battle every time.
 
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blackninja9939

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Aren't hooks becoming too much of a universal cure for every problem a ruler could have? Why should hooks prevent someone from joining a faction?
Hooks do take some effort generally to get if you want them on a specific person, and it makes a good amount of sense to me at least that a vassal is not gonna want to piss you off by joining a faction if you blackmail them about all those murders they committed and threaten to reveal it to the world...
 
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Aaron_S

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Independence faction changes seem like a massive improvement. And peasant uprisings seem to be an actual gameplay element instead of some RNG based annoyance now. But is this really all there is to be said about managing the factions? Surely the fixing of structural issues part you've mentioned has some actual mechanic behind it for adressing specific demands? Because just getting your opinion up seems very lame in contrast to how much better the rest looks than ck2.

Also second and more important question: Can you actually lower the discontent? If it's simply going up at different paces, then its a modifiable timer. I absolutely don't want to have to put up with a rebellion timer just ticking constantly in the background.
 

Baron von Shoes

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Can a Duke or Count join a peasant revolt against their leige. To use it too their own advantage.

Landed vassals who share a Faith with a Populist Faction may join it. If the Populist Revolt succeeds, they will become part of the new realm which is split off of their former leige's realm.
Landed characters can never join the Peasant Rabble faction.

Are populist/peasant faction's military power based on province development or something else?

County military power is based off of how many levies it provides to its holder, which is indirectly influenced by development.

While this does seem to be a more streamlined, less awkward system than what was present in CK2, it is a bit disappointing to see that factions are still only single-issue entities and that they remain completely oppositional as well. Feels like a lot of interesting opportunities have been missed out here...

We actually played around with this early in development, but it became clear that it was an unwieldy beast which quickly exceeded the resources we had for the system. Potentially an idea we can revisit in a future patch, though!

Is Blooper Reel possible to reproduce in CK3? :p

The bug has long since been fixed, but it is possible to mod back in ;)

some question :

About populist and peasant faction :

Do you have to deal only with counties you have directly ? Meaning counties rules by vassals can't join a faction against you ?

If no, do vassal who rules counties which have joined a faction will automaticaly join this faction too ? If no what happen if the faction win and your vassal didn't joined this faction, does he lose his counties ?

And last, do vassals who didn't pleged the faction will join you to defeat a civil war or just lurking at you like in CK2 ?

Populist Factions always target the top liege in a realm, regardless of who personally holds the county. Peasant Rabble always target the actual holder of the county.

Vassals join and leave factions independent of counties. It is possible for 100% of a vassal's holdings to be part of a Populist Faction without the vassal themselves being in the Faction, and visa versa. Indeed, this is likely if the vassal and the counties have differing cultures/religions.

Non-faction vassals will not help you directly in civil wars, but will continue providing levies and taxes to you as normal.
 
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Cassilda

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No religious type of faction, like in case a crusade/religious war annexed a kingdom whose population follow a different faith than the new ruler or when there are enough nobles around practicing a different religion than their liege?
 

Katana500

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No religious type of faction, like in case a crusade/religious war annexed a kingdom whose population follow a different faith than the new ruler or when there are enough nobles around practicing a different religion than their liege?
Wouldn't that just be part of the Populist faction.
 

Heiliges Thüringens Reich

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Finally, if all else fails you can actually address the grievances your vassals have with you. Vassals who are happy enough will never join any kind of faction, which means improving their opinion of you and fixing structural issues in your realm will ensure that nobody challenges your rule!/QUOTE]
]

How much is that? +50? +80?
 

Mindel

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Hooks do take some effort generally to get if you want them on a specific person, and it makes a good amount of sense to me at least that a vassal is not gonna want to piss you off by joining a faction if you blackmail them about all those murders they committed and threaten to reveal it to the world...

It seems to me that the ruler should have an option to blackmail the vassal by threatening to expose the hook, and an option to expose if the vassal refuses. This gives more freedom of action than pre-emptively banning them from factions outright.
 

Katana500

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Vassals join and leave factions independent of counties. It is possible for 100% of a vassal's holdings to be part of a Populist Faction without the vassal themselves being in the Faction, and visa versa. Indeed, this is likely if the vassal and the counties have differing cultures/religions.

If 100% of your holdings revolt do you still have troops you can control?

and if the revolt wins would you loose the game?
 

Spaninq

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It seems to me that the ruler should have an option to blackmail the vassal by threatening to expose the hook, and an option to expose if the vassal refuses. This gives more freedom of action than pre-emptively banning them from factions outright.
This is a good idea, especially if lunatics and characters with a lot of dread are inclined to ignore the hooks.
 

LukeCreed13

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Stronger Factions acquire Discontent rapidly in an attempt to seize the moment, while weaker Factions hem and haw a little in the hopes that more supporters will join their cause

Yes! I wanted this so much. So many times I escaped the wrath of a 130% faction crashing down upon my realm just because they... simply did nothing and just chilled in their palaces, just angry at me, until one of them died, or I had time to assassinate them.

During a civil war the faction members turn hostile to both their liege and all non-faction vassals, though they will focus on fighting their liege
Again, it makes things more difficult for me but I like it. So many times I've seen rebel factions armies hurrying up and down my realm in a frenzy, don't knowing what to do while I comfortably siege their counties. I hope now factions will be more coordinated.

Actually imprisoning the rebels is another matter entirely, as a failed imprisonment attempt can trigger another rebellion
I wonder, can a failed imprisonment attempt also trigger other vassals in joining the rebellion too? Even if they're not in the same faction?

Populist and Peasant Factions are special in that they are not created by unhappy vassals. Instead, they are created by unhappy counties.

County unrest is here! Yay!

This completely replaces the random province revolt chance that existed in CK2 — gone are the days of “Duke McPeasantFace has declared the 19th Orthodox Uprising on you.”

FINALLY! FINALLY!

That is all for this week, but I have an extra special treat in store you next time when we finally begin diving into how religion works in Crusader Kings III!

By Azura, by Azura, by Azura! It's the Religion DDs, coming right up, next week!
 

PhilzuNeide

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I would like to see some more things implemented for factions. I think the AGOT mod had some pretty nice ideas about factions and civil wars.
The ability to stay neutral in civil wars. This of course incurs a opinion penalty with your liege and potentially be crime depending on crown laws. A historic example for this would be Heinrich the Lion of the Welf dynasty who choose not to support his relative Barbarossa because he didn’t get a silver mine for his support. Tied to this both sides of a civil war could negotiate for support of neutrals with money, marriage and titles.

Additionally it would be nice if you were able to bribe certain members to leave their factions with money, titles etc
 

Baron von Shoes

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But is this really all there is to be said about managing the factions? Surely the fixing of structural issues part you've mentioned has some actual mechanic behind it for adressing specific demands? Because just getting your opinion up seems very lame in contrast to how much better the rest looks than ck2.

Also second and more important question: Can you actually lower the discontent? If it's simply going up at different paces, then its a modifiable timer. I absolutely don't want to have to put up with a rebellion timer just ticking constantly in the background.

Claimant Factions and Liberty Factions are primarily governed by opinion, but keeping your vassals even moderately happy (around +30 opinion currently, numbers subject to change) will keep them out of both of those factions. If you don't want to play a benevolent ruler, a high dread value is just as effective at keeping them in line.

By contrast, opinion and dread have only a minor impact on Independence Factions and Populist Factions. Those two are more concerned about structural problems with your realm, and can generally be fixed by re-arranging your liege <-> vassal hierarchy to achieve the following objectives:
  • Ensure you are the Rightful Liege of all of your direct vassals (by creating or usurping the appropriate Duchy/Kingdom/Empire title, or transferring them to someone who holds it).
  • Ensure your direct vassals share your religion and culture. This is less important if your religion is more tolerant, such as when playing in India.
  • Ensure the holders of individual counties share a culture and/or faith with those counties.
EDIT: I forgot to answer your second question. Discontent is mostly out of your control, but it won't be ticking up all of the time; only Factions whose military power rivals your own can gain Discontent, and if you manage to reduce the power of the faction back below 80% discontent will start going down instead.

In addition, several events you can receive (especially within the Stewardship - Duty Focus) give you the option to reduce discontent in active Factions, or 'persuade' Faction members to leave them for a minimum of 10 years.
 
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DSet

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I'd like to see some personal traits impact willingness to join factions. There should be some Ned Stark types who remain almost fanatically loyal to the realm irregardless of how much they hate it's ruler, where you basically have to start going after them or their family for them to revolt.

And of course, some decietful, oppertunistic types who will jump on any oppertunity to increase their Power irregardless of how much you suck up to them.
 

madnessario

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What happens if a populist faction wins and an adjacent nation is of the same religion/culture? Do they create a new nation or they integrate with an appropriate tittle?

In the same manner, can an adjacent nation get a CB against you in the same way separatist rebels work in EU4?
 

Ixalmaris

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I don't see why there was a need for discontent. Not everything needs to be deterministic and by knowing when the ultimatum will come you can game the system too easily. When you don't know when the ultimatum will come factions are a lot more threatening.
 
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LordofLight

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I don't see why there was a need for discontent. Not everything needs to be deterministic and by knowing when the ultimatum will come you can game the system too easily. When you don't know when the ultimatum will come factions are a lot more threatening.
To me a lot of paradox titles are great because you know why something happens. You have tooltips for everything, nothing is vague. Numbers show why you cant or can do something etc.

It fits with that.