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CK3 Dev Diary #17 - Governments, Vassal Management, Laws, and Raiding

Good afternoon, everyone. I’m Magne “Meneth” Skjæran. You might know me from the CK2 dev diaries or the Paradox Wikis, but for the last couple of years I’ve been working on CK3 as a programmer. Today we’re going to cover a number of topics closely related to government types: governments themselves, vassal management, laws, and raiding.

Let's start off with a familiar concept from CK2: governments. For the player, we have three playable governments: Feudal, Tribal, and Clan, which each have some significant differences in how they play.

The Feudal government type is based on European feudalism, and is heavily based around the idea of obligations: you owe service to your liege, and your liege owes you protection in return. It is the most common government form in the game. Feudal realms play pretty similarly to CK2, focusing on claims and inheritance more so than the other government forms.

A new addition in CK3 is Feudal Contracts. Every feudal vassal (except barons) has an individual contract with you, rather than obligations being set realm-wide. These contracts have three levels; Low, Medium, and High, with Medium being the default. High will provide more levies and tax at the cost of an opinion hit, while Low provides less but improves opinion. Higher levels are usually better (though perhaps not if you’re at risk of your vassals revolting), but cannot be imposed unilaterally.

You’ll need to have a hook on your vassal in order to increase their obligations unless you’re fine with all your vassals considering you a tyrant, but you can always lower them. As a result this means you can significantly increase your power if you’re able to obtain hooks on your vassals; perhaps a bit of judicious blackmail might be in order?

Feudal Contract.png

[Modifying a Feudal Contract]

Furthermore we have the Clan government form. This government is the rough equivalent of the Iqta government in CK2, though in CK3 it does have a more Feudal bent than it did previously.

The Clan government type is used by most Muslim realms. This government puts more emphasis on the family rather than the realm, with most vassals being members of your dynasty. Obligations are heavily based on opinion rather than being contractual, with happy vassals providing significantly more taxes and levies than unhappy ones. A happy family is a powerful family.

Clan governments also have access to the Clan Invasion casus belli, which can be used once in a lifetime at the highest level of Fame to invade a kingdom, providing a powerful boon for a well-established clan ruler.

Finally we have Tribal realms. Much like in CK2 these have their own Tribal holding type, providing more troops but less tax. Additionally, most tribals are able to go on raids, which you can read more about below. Tribal realms are unaffected by development, and cause non-tribal realms to have lower supply limits in their lands, making them a tougher nut to crack, but reducing their influence as the years drag on. Tribal realms also pay for men at arms using prestige rather than gold, allowing smaller realms to punch above their weight.

Tribal rulers base their obligations on levels of Fame rather than on contracts or opinion; the more famous your ruler is, the more troops and money your vassals will be willing to provide for your pursuits.

Finally, Tribal rulers have a once-in-a-lifetime Subjugation casus belli, allowing them to forcibly vassalize an entire realm.

As the game goes on, you can eventually reform out of Tribalism, becoming a Clan or Feudal realm instead.

Vassal Overview.png

[The vassal management tab]

To get an easy overview of your realm, we in CK3 have the Realm screen. Let’s start with the Vassals tab of this screen where all your vassals are shown. This gives you a clear overview of where your levies and taxes come from, who might be a threat to you, and allows you to renegotiate feudal contracts.

This is also where you change your crown authority (or tribal authority), which I’ll talk more about later in this dev diary.

Lastly, the screen shows your Powerful Vassals. Much like in CK2’s Conclave DLC, your realm will have some powerful vassals; these expect to be seated on the council, and will make their displeasure known if that is not the case.

Domain overview.png

[The Domain Tab]

Then we have the Domain tab. This lets you easily inspect your domain, showing where you’re earning money and levies, and where you can build more buildings. It also shows the level of development and control in the counties you personally hold, letting you easily tell where you can make improvements.

Finally we have the Succession tab. Due to being a bit of a work in progress, I’m afraid I can’t show you a picture of it right now. Here you can change your succession laws, see your heir(s), and check what titles, if any, you will lose when you die. If you hold any elective titles, you’ll be able to easily get to the election screen from here.

Now with all these mentions of laws, let's go through what laws exist. We’ve trimmed down the number of laws from CK2 as much of what used to be law is handled on a more individual level now, but some still remains.

Like in CK2, we have crown authority for Feudal and Clan realms, and tribal authority for Tribal realms. Higher levels of authority unlock mechanics like imprisonment (for tribals, the others start with it), title revocation, restrictions on internal wars, and heir designation. However, increasing these levels will make your vassals unhappy. Tribal authority is significantly less powerful than crown authority, representing how Tribal governments over time gradually got supplanted by Feudal and Clan governments.

Succession Laws.png

[Changing succession law]

Then there’s succession laws. To no one’s surprise, Gavelkind is making a return, though we’ve renamed it to Partition to make it more obvious what it actually means. This is the default succession form of most realms in both 867 and 1066.

For added fun, there’s now three variants of Partition. We’ve got regular Partition, which functions like Gavelkind in CK2; your realm gets split roughly equally between your heirs, and any heirs that end up a lower tier than your primary heir becomes a vassal.

However, many realms start with a worse form, especially in 867. This is Confederate Partition, which will also create titles of your primary title’s tier if possible. So if you as Norway have conquered all of Sweden but destroyed the kingdom itself, it will get recreated on your death so that your second heir becomes an independent ruler. Tribals are typically locked to this succession type, with some exceptions.

Finally we have an improved version of Partition: High Partition. Under High Partition your primary heir will always get at least half your titles, so it doesn’t matter if you’ve got 2 or 10 kids; your primary heir will get the same amount of land.

We’ve also done a lot of tweaks to the internal logic of who gets what titles, which tends to lead to far nicer splits than in CK2; border gore will of course still happen, but to a lesser degree than before.

Then we have the other succession forms. There’s Oldest Child Succession (replacing Primogeniture), Youngest Child Succession (replacing Ultimogeniture), and House Seniority. A notable difference from CK2’s Seniority Succession is that under House Seniority, the oldest eligible member of your house inherits, not of your entire dynasty.

We also have a number of variants on elective succession, ranging from Feudal Elective, to Princely Elective (HRE succession), and a handful of cultural variants. Each of these have different restrictions on who can vote, who can be elected, and how the AI will select who to vote for.

Additionally, we’ve got a full suite of gender laws, corresponding to the gender laws in CK2. These are: Male Only, Male Preference, Equal, Female Preference, and Female Only.

Finally, we have raiding. If you’re a Norwegian like me, sometimes you feel your Viking blood coursing through your veins, the noise of it drowning out everything else. Times like this, there’s only one solution: go on a raid.

Fans of Pagan gameplay in CK2 will be glad to hear that not only have we implemented raiding in CK3 as well, we’ve made some improvements to it to make it more fun to play with, and less unfun to be on the receiving end of.

The core system is very similar to CK2. If you’re a Pagan or Tribal ruler, you have the ability to raid other rulers’ lands. To do so you raise a raid army, and march or sail over to your target. Only the Norse can raid across sea; other raid armies will simply be unable to embark.

Rally Point.png

[Raising a raid army]

Once at your target your army will start looting the barony they’re in. This is a pretty quick process, but during it your army will be unable to move, preventing you from running away from any counter-raiding force. This change makes it a lot simpler to deal with raiders if you’ve got enough men and can raise them quickly enough, as the AI won’t just immediately run away.

Raid Lindisfarne.png

[A raid in progress]

While in CK2 raiding was done on a county level, in CK3 it is on a barony level. Another difference is that in CK3 raiding no longer uses the siege mechanics directly, but rather a similar system where things like siege engines do not have an impact since you’re raiding the countryside, not a heavily fortified castle.

Another significant change is that if you beat a raid army, you receive all the gold they’re carrying. This means that even if you cannot respond instantly to a raid, it is still very much worth it to beat up the raiders. Like in CK2, you also become immune to raiding by that enemy for several years.

Just like in CK2, a raid army is limited in how much loot it can carry based on the army size. Loot is deposited once the army is back in friendly lands, after which you might either disband or go raiding once more.

On the quality of life side, we now show on the map what provinces have already been raided when you have a raid army selected. This makes it easy to see what places to avoid. Hovering over a province will also tell you how much loot raiding it would provide.

Raid.png

[Northern England in its natural state]

That’s all for today, folks. Tune in next week to learn more about how war functions in Crusader Kings 3.
 
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Pied-Noir

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On another note for CK3 will there finally be a way for a Catholic Roman restoration/recognition of/as Rome as the HRE or even the Latin Empire? Please it's weird how you have to take the east first to do so even if you're obviously superior in all means.
1066 is the latest bookmark - I strongly doubt there will be any Latin Empire mechanics.
 

Meneth

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Can the Feudal Contract be modded?

For example: could Succession be nested in the Contract, so the liege locks succession when granting the title, forbidding vassals to change it?

And very good Diary. Thanks @Meneth .
I think that'd be feasible to mod in; the requirements for changing succession law are scriptable, so you should be able to check for a specific feudal contract level.

Do Vassals levies come from their own pool or they are coming from the void like in CK2 ?

Meaning rising feadal contract reduce vassal power ?
I think they currently reduce the # of men available to the vassal, though I'm not 100% sure about that.
If you can raid across sea, that means you're playing Norse. What I meant was if you can embark on a major river. Not embarking on a sea-side province and traversing major rivers, regardless of culture/religion.
Yes, you can embark directly onto a major river if you can travel on them.

Do the new raid mechanics mean that I won't be able to sack Paris even if I have a sufficiently large raiding army?
There's nothing stopping you from sacking Paris.
 
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@Meneth

Is Tanistry in for the Irish & Scots?
 

DahndI

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Levies are taken from the vassals themselves, unlike CK2's magical troops.
I do believe that in the start it was like that for the ck2. You "reserved" a percentage of the holdings levies to be raised. And I am pretty sure you decided to change it when people started to whine "I can't do anything as a vassal! My liege is constantly in a state of war! HEEEEEELP MEEEE !" and thus was magic troops born. I worry you will repeat that.
 
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I don't think we've decided yet how moddable that will be. Republics and theocracies don't work well with the dynastic gameplay of CK3 though.

Hey, hey, let's not get crazy here! I'm expecting a republic DLC in 1-2 years! Don't you guys rob me of sweet Republic gameplay! :p
 

Denkt

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I mean for historical "councils" you would really be choosing the most competent person for the job aside from at best voting on laws as the council, which imo is better represented by a possible parliament mechanic, getting a council role both historically and to a lesser extent in game is really nothing but burdensome, possibly dangerous work for little financial gain and not much political gain when one is already a "powerful vassal".
The council thing is Obviously setup to be a good gameplay mechanic, paradox games tend to take quite big historical liberties when they feel for it. They clearly want the council to be about a tradeoff, which is how many gameplay mechanics are designed.
 

ogarrr

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Yes, you can embark directly onto a major river if you can travel on them.

I'm very, very glad that this is no longer a religious doctrine. So the question now becomes; can the Rus finally travel on the rivers that they historically travelled? The Ruriks, of all people, not being able to travel rivers was always bloody ridiculous.
 

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The council thing is Obviously setup to be a good gameplay mechanic, paradox games tend to take quite big historical liberties when they feel for it. They clearly want the council to be about a tradeoff, which is how many gameplay mechanics are designed.
Yeah I know. Just spit-balling some interesting ideas.
 

Trinita132

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It is ment to make council positions a choice between satisfying the powerful vassals or put the most competent person in charge. If vassals don't care, council positions would be just about finding the most competent person.

Bro, the question is if it's historical or no.

To make it more historical, they need to add a council for specialists like spy master ... and a council for decisions where the great vassals must be, no need to go to the liege's capital. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

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I do believe that in the start it was like that for the ck2. You "reserved" a percentage of the holdings levies to be raised. And I am pretty sure you decided to change it when people started to whine "I can't do anything as a vassal! My liege is constantly in a state of war! HEEEEEELP MEEEE !" and thus was magic troops born. I worry you will repeat that.

Cause it was poorly implemented in early CK2.

It's simple, if the contract allow for exemple 20% on the vassal levies. Those 20% can only be raised by the liege whatever the vassal is doing with his own part and vice versa
 
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Denkt

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So if I understand the three government forms:
  • Feudal: Stable tax and levy but restrictive expansion.
  • Clan: Tax and levy based on opinion thus less stable than feudal but maybe more powerful at high opinion with vassals and also have access to a powerful once in a life cb.
  • Tribal: Have its own holding type that is not affected by development, thus combined with weak tribal authority tend to fall behind as the game progress. On other hand tribes can raid, have a powerful once in a lifetime cb and the amount of tax and levy vassals provide is based on fame of the ruler. Tribals can also become feudal or clan.
Basically Feudal is the safe option, clan seems to be more hit and miss with bigger ups but can also fall hard. Tribals is the most different out of the three and designed to get weaker over the course of the game.
 

DominusNovus

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Might be a DLC, kind of sucks but at least theres a high chance it will be added.

That really isn’t good enough. The Byzantines are one of the more popular starts, and it took P’dox forever to do them anything remotely resembling justice in CK2. Why should we assume that they’ll be handled in any more timely a fashion? Imperial elective wasn’t added until more than six and a half years after CK2’s initial release - and it still is just a better succession type and titles reverting to a liege slapped on top of an otherwise identical feudal system. The Byzantines should be unique from day 1.

@Meneth Please take this into consideration. Notice that, your initial post here has a reasonably high level of downvotes. I can’t say its all due to the Byzantines getting ignored, but between that and making intra-realm politics a little too homogenized and simplified, I’d say the two combined are not boding well.
 
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This is of course sound advice, and I'm leaning towards it - not so much for the Byzantine thing (which is a minor issue) but for the lack of scenarios and feeling of style/visuals over substance. Let's see what future diaries bring.
 
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This is of course sound advice, and I'm leaning towards it - not so much for the Byzantine thing (which is a minor issue) but for the lack of scenarios and feeling of style/visuals over substance. Let's see what future diaries bring.


I didn’t buy Imperator until just last month. (I feel like I still got screwed a little, but that’s a discussion for another thread.) I’m leaning the opposite direction, but I’m holding off on final decisions until it gets much closer, as I still feel like there’s a lot to go over and a lot to be built between now and then. (And they could butcher religion, still, Idk.)
 
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I didn’t buy Imperator until just last month. (I feel like I still got screwed a little, but that’s a discussion for another thread.) I’m leaning the opposite direction, but I’m holding off on final decisions until it gets much closer, as I still feel like there’s a lot to go over and a lot to be built between now and then. (And they could butcher religion, still, Idk.)
Yeah, of course - I'm cautiously optimistic but I keep seeing things that make me go "hmm" and they're starting to snowball, which is worrying me.

For me one of the main issues is only having 867 and 1066. I understand the fact they want to get their chosen bookmarks as polished as possible, but 867 is absolutely horrible to play in continental Europe due to the non-stop Karling wars, and 1066 is a scenario I've played to death in CK2 over the years. They should of course put their primary focus on 1066 and it is the go-to scenario with a lot of fun dynasties and interesting characters, but not having 936 and 1187 is going to hurt replayability quite a bit.

And I'll be honest, I was really looking forward to trying the Byzantines but now I'm not - they're going to be boring as hell.
 
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Trinita132

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Paradox is a company.

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This is the equation.

You can say everything is fine but if nobody buy the product then Paradox may go bankrupt.

That why there is a forum, to know what the customers want.
 
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