CK3 Dev Diary #15 - The Martial Lifestyle

[Spaninq]

We really don't know how stuff like hunting will work in CK3.

True, but CK2 did have two relatively useless decisions for going on a hunt and hosting a feast. I'm suggesting that it would be relatively easy to take those decision event chains from CK2 and tack on a reward for doing them frequently enough.

 

[Denkt]

True, but CK2 did have two relatively useless decisions for going on a hunt and hosting a feast. I'm suggesting that it would be relatively easy to take those decision event chains from CK2 and tack on a reward for doing them frequently enough.

I hardly have played CK2 so I don't know how useless they are but pressing a button which is only available for like 3 months a year is maybe a bit annoying, it could be automated.

 

[Banikovec]

Can you elope with already maried character? And can you eventualy use eloping to form alliance? (pragmatic king who won't cry over split milk and understands that weak son in law is better ally than rival).

 

[Ed Mike]

The top one, between Learning and Medicine, seems to be alchemy. The big knife is possibly Torture. Or maybe the one I originally identified as Medicine is torture and the knife is Medicine...

That one looks like an incensory, used in Christian churches to burn incense. So I would think it's more likely to be linked to religion instead of alchemy.

https://wp-media.patheos.com/blogs/sites/616/2016/05/Santiago_Catedral_Botafumeiro.jpg

 

[TheDarkMaster]

An idea I had was that these lifestyle trees are a good opportunity for differentiating religions and governments from one another. So while chivalry makes sense as a Feudal Christian tree, it can be entirely substituted for something else for characters of different religions/governments with its own effects and themes. This is also a good solution for trees that have significant religious elements that don't necessarily make sense in religions that follow incompatible mechanics/beliefs.

 

[puggle999]

Is dualling or Hunting not included within?

 

[gummy95]

Is dualling or Hunting not included within?

Probably event based onea

 

[Denkt]

Can you guess the traits? 15 of these traits are tied to the Lifestyle trees, the remaining can be gained through special events and activities.

We have seen all 15 so the 6 left are tied to what it say above.

 

[Rubidium]

The top one, between Learning and Medicine, seems to be alchemy. The big knife is possibly Torture. Or maybe the one I originally identified as Medicine is torture and the knife is Medicine...

That one is almost certainly Mystic, as it's very similar to the Mystic trait portrait already in CK2 (a burning lamp).

One other big reason they probably didn't make hunting a Martial lifestyle path: it would render a third of the martial lifestyle useless to Jain characters (and presumably other pacifist religions that you might found/reform)

 

[Denkt]

That one is almost certainly Mystic, as it's very similar to the Mystic trait portrait already in CK2 (a burning lamp).

One other big reason they probably didn't make hunting a Martial lifestyle path: it would render a third of the martial lifestyle useless to Jain characters (and presumably other pacifist religions that you might found/reform)

Would that not be the case of torturer?

 

[Rubidium]

Would that not be the case of torturer?

Torture seems more private. Yes, everyone knows you like to remove the body parts of your enemies, but you're not going around flaunting it publicly and inviting the rest of the court to join in.

And it's already generally frowned upon by most religions, not just pacifist ones (indeed, one of the perks is to remove that penalty essentially via sophistry), whereas most religions don't care how much you enjoy killing small, fuzzy critters. Torture is thus no more forbidden for Jains than it theoretically is for everyone else, so it's not a religion-specific block.

 

[Denkt]

Torture seems more private. Yes, everyone knows you like to remove the body parts of your enemies, but you're not going around flaunting it publicly and inviting the rest of the court to join in.

And it's already generally frowned upon by most religions, not just pacifist ones (indeed, one of the perks is to remove that penalty essentially via sophistry), whereas most religions don't care how much you enjoy killing small, fuzzy critters. Torture is thus no more forbidden for Jains than it theoretically is for everyone else, so it's not a religion-specific block.

Although stuff like strategist is also about killing and so is leading armies. You also have stuff like Knights and so. Even going to war would be considered not exactly be pacifist.

 

[JSB217118]

I really like the new Chivalry feature.

 

[Rubidium]

Even going to war would be considered not exactly be pacifist.

Which is why you lose piety for doing so in CK2 (ok, technically you gain piety for not doing so, which is mechanically the same). But even a nominally pacifist CK character is going to find themselves involved in some wars, and Jain rulers historically found excuses to fight wars just like any other other (after all, Christian scriptures explicitly order you to "turn the other cheek" and "not resist an evil-doer," but there's a reason the game is called "Crusader Kings").

On the other hand, hunting is gratuitous violence against animals, and much harder to justify theologically.

And of course, on a broader level, it goes back to my point in a different thread about how each focus provides you different ways to deal with the same challenges, as a pretty clear attempt to keep them (and their associated educations) balanced. Here we have a "fight enemies" branch, but also an "increase income/levies" and an "increase vassal opinion" branch (with some overlap between them; e.g. the control branch also mitigates vassal opinion by reducing factions), letting a martial character deal with the most common challenges they face, but also being extra good at fighting battles.

In the same way, the other branches generally have a "improve realm" and a "make my vassals like me" option, along with a third option that's unique to the focus. So, a diplomatic character has "improve realm" (Majesty) and "make vassals like me" (Family patriarch) options, but also a path to become extra good at foreign affairs; a learning character has Scholarship and Theology, but also an extra bonus to health that no one else gets; while the stewardship is unique for doubling down on its area (it has Administrator as its "make vassals like me" path, but two "improve the realm" paths, with different approaches). Intrigue is arguably the odd-duck, unless you treat Torture as a slightly twisted take on "make the realm richer" path, in which case it takes the flip of the stewardship approach (with Seduction and Schemer offering different ways to deal with unhappy vassals).

 

[Bearnest]

That one is almost certainly Mystic, as it's very similar to the Mystic trait portrait already in CK2 (a burning lamp).

CK2's Mystic trait icon is not just some "burning lamp", but Aladdin's lamp with the genie appearing from a puff of smoke

 

[FleetingRain]

I think the artists should have gone all out in the Overseer icon and drawn Sauron's Eye atop its tower.

Or the Illuminati pyramid.

Or just a big eye in a wall.

Whatever but this lone eye that's just creepy instead of all-seeing.

 

[DodgyHagrid]

Alongside unlocked traits and skills rulers should have a choice of nicknames to match to choose from. A checklist for nicknames (e.g the great, the conqueror, the missionary and so forth) you can choose would be cool, although I do understand that people's nicknames are not always self determined.

 

[alscon]

What I'm wondering with eloping in addition to seducing is if we can finally get a CB out of it, or at least a reason to hang, quarter and draw the perpetrator in the town's square.

Count Foolhardy has seduced my third wife in a row, after the two previous ones ended up on the gallows for infidelity? I'd like not just to marry #4, but also have Count Foolhardy join his conquests. And if it's a foreigner, it's time to lay waste to their realm.

 

[Denkt]

Which is why you lose piety for doing so in CK2 (ok, technically you gain piety for not doing so, which is mechanically the same). But even a nominally pacifist CK character is going to find themselves involved in some wars, and Jain rulers historically found excuses to fight wars just like any other other (after all, Christian scriptures explicitly order you to "turn the other cheek" and "not resist an evil-doer," but there's a reason the game is called "Crusader Kings").

On the other hand, hunting is gratuitous violence against animals, and much harder to justify theologically.

Yes it would make the game hard, you could add in stress here for going to war with such a religion, more so if zealous.

And of course, on a broader level, it goes back to my point in a different thread about how each focus provides you different ways to deal with the same challenges, as a pretty clear attempt to keep them (and their associated educations) balanced. Here we have a "fight enemies" branch, but also an "increase income/levies" and an "increase vassal opinion" branch (with some overlap between them; e.g. the control branch also mitigates vassal opinion by reducing factions), letting a martial character deal with the most common challenges they face, but also being extra good at fighting battles.

It is a bit more complicated than that. Strategiest not only make it easier to win wars, it also make it easier to go to war. The overseer make your conquest more productive quicker and give various other bonuses such as cheaper mercenaries and chivalry give stuff like reduced chance to die in combat and some love options.

In the same way, the other branches generally have a "improve realm" and a "make my vassals like me" option, along with a third option that's unique to the focus.

It is also quite a simplification.

So, a diplomatic character has "improve realm" (Majesty) and "make vassals like me" (Family patriarch) options, but also a path to become extra good at foreign affairs;

August is more about getting as much prestige and fame as possible and that by various sources, hard to call it an improve realm option since that is not what it is about. Family patriarch can be used to make your vassals like you more but it is more about having alot of Children and friends. The diplomat feel something for a warmonger with easier access to Alliances and more claim options and reduced penalty for truce breaking.

a learning character has Scholarship and Theology, but also an extra bonus to health that no one else gets;

The Scholarship option do give relationship buff to character of other religions and Culture but it also have various other stuff like extra Learning from devotion, attributes from your councillors and ability to become friend with wards. Theology is something similar to august but for piety and devotion instead of prestige and fame, but it also come with various other stuff such as improved ability to convert stuff and seems to allow creating your own religion. The Whole of Body path is strange in the way it don't really improve your character much, instead it focus on keeping the character alive, even the Lifestyle is unique in not giving attributes. Also it do protect other characters, so it is more like a safety pick, like your character is really good and you want to keep them for a long time.

while the stewardship is unique for doubling down on its area (it has Administrator as its "make vassals like me" path, but two "improve the realm" paths, with different approaches).

Avaricious is basically just about making as much Money as possible, not really about improving the realm and it also have a republican opinion bonus thrown in. Architect do help you build more buildings and increase development but it also have stuff like much quicker levy recovery and increase popular opinion which is more suited for a warmonger I would say. Administrator is basically all about keeping the vassals happy and useful with a claim throne scheme throw in.

Intrigue is arguably the odd-duck, unless you treat Torture as a slightly twisted take on "make the realm richer" path, in which case it takes the flip of the stewardship approach (with Seduction and Schemer offering different ways to deal with unhappy vassals).

Seducer, I suspect its main advantage is to have alot of Children which can mean alot of Alliances and the seduction itself would maybe increase other peoples opinion which can probably be used both internally and externally. It is maybe somewhat similar to Family Hierarch. Torturer do have stuff to do with intrigue such as ability to reveal secrets, but is also alot about dread which will help keep vassals in line and some vassal bonuses. Schemer is pretty much completely focused on schemes.

 

[Denkt]

No, sadly it does not. Civilized people will have to be satisfied with the Supply Capacity boost!

Why sadly? Is it not a good thing that raiding is limited so the once that can actually raid feels special?

Ah, shame! I was hoping I could play my more villainous characters a bit like Robert the Old, Duke of Burgundy, and start raiding rivals and the church alike. Oh well, I suppose other aspects of Control and Tyranny will have to suffice!

Well that is something you will have to wait for.​