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CK3 Dev Diary #1 - Dynasties & Houses

Greetings, and welcome to the first CK3 Feature Dev Diary!

As this is the first DD we want it to be extra juicy, and showcase something that we’re excited about - namely what we’re doing with Dynasties! Dynasties are immaterial yet fundamentally important things that make Crusader Kings what it is - your line must follow an unbroken line of members from your Dynasty; if your Dynasty ends, so does your game.

Now, the representation of Dynasties in CK2 was limited. A character belonged to a Dynasty, and that was that - you got a minor opinion boost with characters that were of the same one, and nothing more. In CK3, we really want to emphasize the power that Dynasties held, and their impact on the medieval world! We want you as the player to feel a bond with your Dynasty, and care for it. To achieve this, we’ve done a multitude of things!

DD2.png


Firstly something that we know will especially please CK2 players, we’ve redefined what a Dynasty actually is - not a monolithic entity, but a collection of Houses. No longer will Dynasties have just one name, one Coat of Arms, and one identity - instead several Houses (aka Cadet Branches!) will be collected under the umbrella that is the Dynasty, working together (theoretically…) towards bringing renown upon the Dynasty!

So, what is a House?
Each Dynasty will have a Founding House (usually of the same name as the Dynasty), which is the first House of that Dynasty. As the game progresses, ruling Dynasty members that are distant by blood to the current House Head (more on this below) may choose to create a Cadet Branch - effectively creating a new House under the Dynasty. Creating a Cadet Branch makes the character creating it House Head (with the most powerful House Head becoming Dynast), and by extension free from the direct influence of their old House Head.

Making your own Cadet Branch requires quite a bit of prestige, that you do not stand to inherit your House Head’s titles, and that all of your Dynastic ancestors are dead (your father can’t be alive, for example). Cadet Branches/Houses come with a lot of flavor: their own names, Coat of Arms and Mottos, usually inspired by the location in which they are founded, and the founding character. For example, if a ruler of the Jimena Dynasty would create a Cadet Branch in southern France, they might be called the Toulouse-Jimenas, and so on.

DD1.png


Now, what is a House Head or a Dynast?
Within a House there is always a leader, a House Head, that wields power over the rest of the members. A House Head has the power to legitimize bastards, call House members to war, and demand that they adhere to their Faith (refusal to convert will result in them creating a new Cadet Branch). The House Head also has inherent leverage on all House members born after they were made head, by virtue of getting a Hook on them (more on Hooks in another DD). They also gain passive prestige based upon the number of members in their House. House leadership follows the succession of the House Head, so that if you’re the leader of your House you will most likely keep that title on succession.

The Dynast, on the other hand, wields significantly more power than a House Head - with their power encompassing the members of all Houses of the entire Dynasty! The Dynast is always the most powerful House Head of a Dynasty, with leadership being updated on the death of the old Dynast. In addition to everything the House Head can do, the Dynast can also Disinherit/Restore Inheritance, Denounce/Forgive members of the Dynasty (which affects opinion in a major way), personally Claim titles held by Dynasty members, and make Dynasty members end wars they have against each other. All of these powers work against every member of the Dynasty, not just the House they’re a part of. The Dynast also gains prestige for every living member of the Dynasty. Being the Dynast is very powerful indeed, but you have to carefully weigh the powers against other benefits, as they cost Renown.

So what is Renown?
Renown is a resource accumulated by a Dynasty, and is used for several things. Firstly, all renown earned by a Dynasty counts towards its Level of Splendor. The Level of Splendor is the outward perception of the Dynasty, how well it is perceived in the eyes of the world, and affects the prestige you get on birth, the prestige when marrying into it, and the maximum long reign opinion you can get. Having a high level also makes it much easier to arrange marriages, especially with Dynasties below your level. Regardless of if Renown is spent or not, the Level of Splendor won’t decrease. The higher your Dynasty’s Level of Splendor, the more impressive its Coat of Arms frame will look. Peasant Dynasties will start at a negative Splendor level, which means that you’ll actually lose prestige for marrying them.

Renown itself is a spendable currency, representing the clout your Dynasty holds over itself. Its use is twofold; firstly it can be used for the most powerful Dynast interactions (getting claims, disinheriting, etc.) and secondly for unlocking Dynasty Legacies (more on this below).

The way you get Renown encourages you to mimic a ‘playstyle’ that was common in reality, but that wasn’t very practical in CK2 - spreading your Dynasty far and wide! You will gain renown for every ruler of your Dynasty that isn’t a subject under another member of your Dynasty. This is based on tier, which means that a King will give more Renown than a Duke, and so on. Marrying in such a way that your Dynasty ends up on the throne of a foreign realm is therefore useful for other reasons than to just murder them until you inherit their lands. Having your Dynasty spread out will give you more Renown, and thus a more powerful Dynasty overall. For example, if you’re playing as the King of England you will NOT gain renown from your landed vassal brother, but you WILL gain renown from your Dynastic cousin ruling a Duchy in the Holy Roman Empire. You will also gain renown from marrying away your dynasty to be spouses of powerful rulers, symbolizing your newfound influence in their realms. This gives you a reason to carefully plan the marriages of your kinsmen, even if you are not in need of an alliance!

So, what are Dynasty Legacies?
We all know that the playing field in Crusader Kings is a very volatile one, you might be Emperor of the World as one character, while being reduced to Count of Norfolk as the next. Dynasty Legacies offer some permanence in this otherwise very wild world, in the form of modifiers and unlocks that affect every member of your Dynasty. Essentially, by using Renown you get to shape what your Dynasty is known for. There’s a myriad of Legacies to choose from, all divided into tracks with an appropriately thematic name, such as ‘Kin’, ‘Guile’ or ‘Blood’. These aim to represent notions the world had (or has) about certain dynasties, i.e., that the Seljuks are warriors, the Abbasids lawmakers, the Habsburgs diplomats (and, ahem, prone to marrying their own kin), etc. Each Legacy track contains five unlocks, each costing a progressively higher amount of Renown to unlock.

DD3.png


In this Dev Diary we will go into details on one of these tracks, “Blood” (which also happens to be my favorite). This track is designed for those of you who enjoy breeding traits into your family line, with the first few unlocks all focusing on increasing the chance of inheritance, emergence, and reinforcement of genetic traits (more on genetic traits in another DD). The last few unlocks will reduce the chance of negative traits appearing (essentially allowing for more.. ‘risky’ marriages), give you the chance to choose a genetic trait to be more common among your kin (i.e. beautiful, intelligent and strong… but also giant or dwarf. No matter how much I pleaded with art I couldn’t get a ‘Habsburg chin’ trait, though!), and finally rounding off with an increase to your Dynasty members Life Expectancy (which increases both their average age, and average fertility - this even means that women of your dynasty remain able to bear children for longer!).

Legacies take a long time to unlock, and you will have to work hard toward unlocking even one full track - though their power more than makes up for the wait. Legacies are chosen and unlocked by the Dynast, so make sure that you’re in control of your Dynasty.

That’s all for this time! We won’t spoil any more of the Legacy tracks for now, but rest assured that they all offer very interesting opportunities for you to shape your dynasty as you would like it! Next up we have a sneak preview of the map, stay tuned for the next DD.
 
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DeinonychusTaco

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Wow, I'm so used to playing CK2 that I forgot how irritated I was back at the beginning about how marrying your daughters off to distant emperors didn't actually do much for you. I still kind of play that way and think about spreading my dynasty just for fun, but man it's gonna be great to have it actually be meaningful as a gameplay element. Hopefully it will also be possible to arrange slightly more complicated marriages inheritance-wise instead of CK2's "too high in succession line" malus kicking in whenever I want to do anything interesting.
 

Sleight of Hand

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"Dynast" is also a synonym in English for "sovereign ruler," so perhaps it will help to think of this usage as a fusion of the two meanings.
Incorrectly, however.

A dynast is a member of a dynasty - they needn't rule anything. Unlanded sons or cousins are dynasts.
 

Metz77

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Sharokhan

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This sounds awesome. Have been anticipating this game for years. Hoping it has the same playability and longevity as CK2. Any idea what the map will look like? ie. All of Europe, All Asia, and All Africa
 

Metz77

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This sounds awesome. Have been anticipating this game for years. Hoping it has the same playability and longevity as CK2. Any idea what the map will look like? ie. All of Europe, All Asia, and All Africa
We've been told it extends from Ireland to India and down to the Ivory Coast.
 

Rysz

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Is there any possibility to leave your dynasty. Let‘s say you are head of a cadet branch and the Dynast is batshit crazy / your rival. I think their should be a way because I don’t want to follow some guy‘s rules just because we had the same ancestor 500 years ago.
This will probably get buried in 15 pages of discussion anyway, but I think situations like these could give a CB to disobey the dynast. (or the dynast CB'ing you for disobeying)
You'd still be the same dynasty, because well, that's just a fact of history, but it should be possible to go against the wishes of the dynast.

Independence of a feudal contract is contemporary, but you cannot just deny historical ties of blood.
 

Magil

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Personally I'm glad for this, as I don't have as strong an aversion to "gamey" stuff as some seem to (I like games, that's why I play games), and it seemed like dynasty was nearly inconsequential in CK2, for how big an emphasis the game seemed to want to place on it. Really the score screen at the end where it always said how great my dynasty was just seemed meaningless, because I was never attached to my dynasty in a real gameplay sense, I was always far more concerned with keeping my realm together and keeping my heirs firmly in control of it rather than earning dynastic prestige. Hell I'd often not land heirs (unless I absolutely had to) because landing them meant the AI would find some way to get maimed or killed doing something stupid. If spreading my dynasty and trying to make it stronger gives me concrete gameplay benefits then I'll be a lot more likely to do so.
 

Arko

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I would maybe switch out the title of Dynast to Patriarch or something like that, because in most cases a dynast is just a legitimate member of a house, somewhere in the line of succession. There is no "the" dynast, an individual is just "a" dynast. For example, Franz Ferdinand was a dynast of the House of Habsburg-Lothringen, but his children, being from a morganatic marriage, were not. Neither are bastards of course. Using the word dynast to describe the most respected and prestigious member of a vast dynasty is just plain wrong.
I'd guess we could also have some Matriarch ;)
 
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Gurkhal

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I should also note the great character-focused mods based in the ancient world we'll be able to set using CK3 as a basis. Yes, we've got Imperator but that's a wargame to my understanding and thus primarily not a character focused game.

Really looking forward to the options that the expanded system for dynasties and houses will open for us. :)
 

Vokasak

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This is based on tier, which means that a King will give more Renown than a Duke, and so on. Marrying in such a way that your Dynasty ends up on the throne of a foreign realm is therefore useful for other reasons than to just murder them until you inherit their lands. Having your Dynasty spread out will give you more Renown, and thus a more powerful Dynasty overall. For example, if you’re playing as the King of England you will NOT gain renown from your landed vassal brother, but you WILL gain renown from your Dynastic cousin ruling a Duchy in the Holy Roman Empire.

In a situation where my dynasty controls a large number of duchies in the HRE, and one of them manages to inherit, does this mean the dynasty loses Renown, since it's going from (duchy_reknown x 10 (or whatever)) to (emperor_reknown x 1), with none of the duchies counting anymore?
 

Metz77

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In a situation where my dynasty controls a large number of duchies in the HRE, and one of them manages to inherit, does this mean the dynasty loses Renown, since it's going from (duchy_reknown x 10 (or whatever)) to (emperor_reknown x 1), with none of the duchies counting anymore?
I would imagine that the Emperor title comes with much more renown than duchy titles, so as to compensate for such a thing.

But at the same time, it makes sense that, say, if the Habsburgs have a reputation for being powerful vassals under the Konradiners, their family is going to be more well-regarded than if they're powerful vassals under a Habsburg. Fair or not, that just looks like nepotism to outsiders.

And also I don't think the family will lose renown in that case, they'll just be gaining it at a slower pace. Basically like prestige, it accumulates over time rather than being fixed.
 

General Karthos

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Everything I read about this game makes me want it more. I'm trying to temper expectations, but everything I've read about it seems like a positive to me. I like the way this might give you a reason to play after you've lost everything. Many of us will continue to play even if we've been reduced from Emperor of Scandinavia to the poorest, meanest county in the winter-blasted hellscape of Finland, because we know that it's not game over. We rose from obscurity once, we can do it again. But not every player and especially not every new player is going to be quite so eager to keep going when everything he spent centuries to build crumbles to ash before his very eyes. But with these lineage things, there's a little extra incentive. I know my favorite experiences in Crusader Kings II have come when I have fought a desperate battle to hold my realm together against a pretender or rebellion. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. And when I lose, my family will remember the former glories of my house.... And I know that I will see my dynasty sit on the Imperial Throne again, even if it takes me a century.

Nice to see that there's a system where other people might remember my former glories as well.
 

SeekTruthFromFx

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  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
The introduction of cadet branches is entirely welcome.

And the general general dynastic Reknown/Legacies system looks OK: as other have said, this is basically CK2 dynastic prestige + bloodlines. It's great that people will be affected by the reputations of their (and their enemies') ancestors. I knew a guy at university who was the direct male line descendant of a famous author and had the same name as him: understandably that boosted his self-confidence and before he left university he'd played a key role in a project that almost everybody reading this will have used. This was even more true in the CK era, so making it more important is an improvement to CK3.

But being able to spend points in order to influence genetic outcomes is a terrible, terrible mechanic! :mad:

The only ways to influence the genes of your descendants in this era were choosing partners and eliminating offspring without the desired characteristics. Winning a battle or writing a book does not allow anyone to consciously influence the genetics of your descendants by any other means. As described in the OP, the Blood Legacy is just contrary to science (even taking into account epigenetics and microbiomes).

At the very least, this genetic track needs to be locked behind some kind of Game Rule for Fantasy mechanics. Lots of us enjoy playing immortal characters and other magical features, and gameplay takes priority over historical accuracy. But the core game should not have a mechanic that defies basic rules of human biology. This is CK, not Magicka! :p

The difference is that pretige and piety were tied to a character and governed largely just what actions that character could take. They were more or less measure of 'good will' and allowed a character to use his political, social, or whatever influence to effect some outcome. Not make his unborn great great grandson and cousin better readers overnight.

...

It would be better if as a dynast or house head that each path had its own 'points' so that, for example, if one dynast preferred that members undergo a martial education or followed a martial path in 'Way of Life' you'd accumulate some of these points just from having members or perhaps winning battles and leading armies and so naturally your dynasty would become more martial by trying to enforce this path on members. A new Dynast might prefer something different and so a dynasty would become in essence renowned for different deeds by different members rather than just accumulating dynasty mana and clicking the next unlock on whatever path you started on. It would also allow a character to go against dynasty wishes (with some appropriate penalty) and forge his own path -- perhaps even influencing how the dynasty is perceived through the ages due to his great deeds in doing so. It would certainly alleviate the feeling of 'oh crap, I'm not the dynast and the AI is gonna pick something stupid'.

This would be something like HoI's experience points (XP). Yes, this would be even better than the system proposed in the OP.