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CK2 Dev Diary #83 - God Wills It!

Greetings!

PDXCon is soon upon us, and we hope to see you there! During the event we will reveal the name and theme of the Expansion we’re working on, and after PDXCon is over we’ll have plenty of Dev Diaries that will delve deep into the new expansion features. For now though we’d like to present the main feature of the free patch that’ll accompany the Expansion!

It is time to don your armor and ready your steed, as the Vicar of Christ himself has declared that all who join in expelling the infidel from the Holy Land will have their sins absolved!

The Crusades are a very iconic part of the game, though one that has barely seen any change since the game was released 6 years ago. A lot of fantastic and interesting systems have been added to the game over the years, and we wanted this very central feature to feel as deep and interesting as any one of them.

The Catholic faith will no longer use the old Great Holy War system - instead they will use a new and improved system specifically tailored to both increase immersion and enhance the gameplay surrounding the crusades. This system is massive, and it might be hard for us to fit all of the information into this single DD, but we’ll give it our best shot!

We have specifically aimed to fix the issue where, unless you intend to win the crusade, there was no real reason for you as a player to participate except to get the ‘Crusader’ trait.

To accomplish this we’ve made Catholic crusades work in two phases; first there is a Preparation Phase, followed by the actual war. To communicate this properly we needed a new dedicated interface. Enter, the Crusade View:

CrusadeDD_PrepPhase.png

Holy shield, on the wall, which is the holiest city of them all?

When the pope decides that it's time for a new Crusade, he will send a call to the Catholic world for support. When he does you can access the Crusade View by clicking the Crusade Banner underneath your portrait.

In the Crusade View you will have access to a plethora of useful information, and you’ll be able to take actions to help the crusade or to alter its course. You will be able to see the Pope’s proposed recipient (if any) in the top left corner, and the target character and title in the top right. There will be a timer counting down to the date where the war will start. During this time, the following can be done:
  • Catholic rulers can pledge their military support to the crusade. When they do, they appear in the list of Pledged Participants. For every crusader that pledges, prestige, piety and artifacts are added to the War Chest. The religion being targeted by the crusade can ‘counter pledge’, and it’s the relative strength of these two sides that is shown as ‘Total Strength’ underneath their portraits. Pledged rulers will automatically be called into the war as it starts.
  • All Catholic rulers get the option of donating money to the War Chest in exchange for piety and opinion with the Pope. This money is then added to the War Chest, more on that later.
  • Crusaders who have pledged military support can add a beneficiary to the crusade. This character must be a dynasty member, and depending on your participation in the crusade they might be granted a title in the Crusader Kingdom should the crusade be successful. More on this later.
  • Players can pay piety to change the target character and/or title. This cost starts fairly low, but doubles each time to avoid spamming. This means that if you’d rather have a crusade target a scary infidel realm on your immediate border, you can make it happen if you’re pious enough!
  • Players can choose their ‘Stance’ on what they want to happen should they be the most participating crusader. More on this later.

If a Catholic ruler chooses to neither pledge to the crusade or donate money to the War Chest, the Pope might get very upset with them. Depending on the rulers tier and influence, this can range from a simple piety hit to an outright excommunication. Revoking your pledge also carries a similar penalty.

Regarding the War Chest - when the preparation phase is over, 20% of the money in the War Chest will be divided between the pledged Crusaders, in order to provide for their levies and fleets as they go to war. The rest is saved until the end of the Crusade, where it is used as rewards for the participants and to set up the Crusader Kingdom. The Crusader Kingdom will receive 10% of the War Chest in order to steel them against imminent counterattacks. The rest (including prestige, piety and artifacts) is given out to the Crusaders who participated in the crusade, in order to motivate you as the player to participate as much as you can - even if you don’t expect to win. To ensure that the top contributors don't take all of the War Chest rewards, any one participant can receive at most 20% of it. As the Catholic world tends to be rather… generous with their donations, this often translates into a lot of wealth! Beware though, if the crusade is lost the majority of the contents of the War Chest will be lost, and Christendom will be weaker for it...

When the Preparation Phase is over, the war begins and the Crusade View changes:
CrusadeDD_WarPhase.png

Note that the numbers are still WIP.

The Countdown Timer is replaced by the warscore and the name of the Crusade is updated, otherwise the functionality remains the same (except for being able to change the target, of course, at this point it’s too late for that).

If the Crusade is successful, what will happen depends on the top contributor’s stance. There are three stances; ‘Selfish’, ‘For my Beneficiary’ and ‘Comply with Papal Demands’. The AI will always choose to go with Papal Demands.
  • The ‘Selfish’ stance will see the top contributor take the lands for themselves. Doing this completely disqualifies them from the War Chest though, and is seen as impious by the Pope.
  • The ‘For my Beneficiary’ stance will see your beneficiary become King/Queen of the lands. While still not approved by the Pope, it’s not seen as impious, and you still qualify for (parts) of the War Chest. If the pope has chosen no recipient for the title, this is the default behaviour and carries no penalties.
  • The ‘Comply with Papal Demands’ stance simply sees whoever the Pope wishes to rule the lands become the King or Queen. If he has no opinion, it will go to the top contributor’s beneficiary.

In the old system, the title and all under it went to the winner of the crusade. You often saw France or the HRE own for example Jerusalem, which in all honesty was very boring, and more often than not only resulted in an inheritance mess. While a player can still choose to use the old system by choosing the ‘Selfish’ stance, the new default behaviour is completely different. Unless the Pope wishes to restore an existing King or Claimant (where the normal, old, behaviour will be used) a Crusader Kingdom will be set up:

CrusadeDD_JerusalemAllSetUp.png


A Crusader Kingdom is a multicultural kingdom made up of the beneficiaries of all participants. The top contributing participants will have their beneficiaries get higher titles in the target kingdom. To avoid the player gaming the system using inheritance, the Kingdom is always set up to disallow external inheritance - and the AI tends to choose beneficiaries that do not stand to inherit or are married to someone who might inherit.

If your beneficiary receives land in a Crusader Kingdom, your entire Dynasty will receive a monthly boon to piety until their death. In a future Dev Diary we will go into more detail regarding the importance of Piety in the Catholic sphere, but rest assured that it’s going to be more important to be seen as pious than it’s ever been before - making the boon from your beneficiary rather significant.

The new ruler of the Crusader State, in order to properly rule such a challenging realm, gets a trait appropriately named ‘Crusader King/Queen’ which confers a massive same religion opinion along with some other goodies.

And, for the finale, if your beneficiary is selected to be the King or Queen of the Kingdom - you have the option of switching over to them, taking control of the newly established Crusader Kingdom and leaving your old character behind (which is also part of the reason why you can only choose members of your own dynasty as beneficiaries). We believe that doing a thing such as this will provide the quintessential CK2 experience, where you have to both manage unruly vassals and defend against vengeful religious foes!

Stay tuned for future Dev Diaries, where we might go into detail on a few… special crusades.
 

Snow Crystal

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That seems very sensible, cool. If it's not too much of a pain, what kind of thing allows for the creation of these states? Are they given out by the same logic of participation, or do they have their own logic for them? It'd be really cool if you have high participation and don't think the Crusade will be won/you will keep up participation score, so you can just opt to take the Crusader State now rather than risking gaining nothing later.

An event that is triggered by sieging down a whole Duchy in the war, or a couple of other special cases.

That's a shame, but understandable. How moddable is this? Could one mod it so that landed people could be beneficiaries? If not, I imagine one could just create an event to change ownership after the fact.

On a related note, do adventurers tie into the new Crusade system at all? Could unlanded people try to gain their own armies (and thereby become adventurers) and come along for the ride, or is it a strictly landed ruler-only affair, still?

Should be feasible to add with a mod.

Is this the paid content? Do only DLC owners get access to the new crusade system and special crusades? If not, what exactly are we paying for?

The reworked Crusade is not paid content. Special Crusades are. The rest you are paying for (if you buy the expansion, that is) will be revealed later, so stay tuned :D
 

IXISparky

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I love this!!! I also hope the Orthodox, Miaphysite, and Nestorian Christianities get a bit more flavor. I understand they're not the focus of the new release but it's always been weird to play Abyssinia and for the Coptic church to be essentially a reskinned Orthodox Church when historically the Coptic Church had a ton of conflicts between the Coptic Pope proper and patriarchs under him to the point that Ethiopia actually wasn't an independent patriarchate until the 1970's.

But still, I love this! I feel like it's taking some of the lackluster parts of Catholicism and really turning it into a good system.

Also, I kinda hope there's a game rule about what kind of crusades be called or used.
Agreed, the non catholic christianities always seemed like mechanically weaker versions of catholics, it would be amazing to give them some love
 

Ols

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Religious heads already can't call for Crusades (and other stuff like Excommunication) if the religious authority gets too small

Problem is that there are currently too many ways to boost Catholic MA, so even a single small Catholic realm far away from Rome can keep it high enough. I think it'd be better to simply turn them off at a certain threshold with the option for them to be re-enabled under certain conditions (such as the mass re-emergence of Catholicism through a secret cult). A religion that has lost most of its core territories and is restricted to very few kingdoms should not be able to field so many holy orders with so many troops. You could make it so that the holy orders correspond to Hispania, Italia, Francia and Germania - with the complete loss of one of them disabling a specified religious order (eg. losing all territory in Hispania disables the Knights of Calatrava or stops them refilling their troops).

If I was to redesign the game from the ground up I'd add interregnums and sede vacante so that things like this can be modelled better. Perhaps by inserting some kind of "null" target they can cut the Pope out of the process of using certain events.
 

Darrow

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This will probably get buried.

But are there any changes to Levie sizes, taxes etc to taking a crusading area?

Huge issue currently is the crusade state falling apart quickly after as they cannot raise any levies or taxes to counter the opposition in the area due to the penalty for taking those areas for x amount of years.
 

Snow Crystal

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This will probably get buried.

But are there any changes to Levie sizes, taxes etc to taking a crusading area?

Huge issue currently is the crusade state falling apart quickly after as they cannot raise any levies or taxes to counter the opposition in the area due to the penalty for taking those areas for x amount of years.

Refilled holdings and penalties removed if a beneficiary becomes the new Crusader King/Queen.
 

Federalist girl

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Holy smokes, I actually was not expecting so thorough a crusade overhaul. This is great. One of the key reasons I play overhaul mods is the crusader state mechanic, but this change goes above and beyond.

Also, it was a little mention somewhere in the thread but I am VERY glad the pope will no longer be such a pushover and Catholic realms may actually help him out.

Crusades and papal helplessness were two big immersion killers so I’m thrilled to see both addressed.
 

Ninking

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This looks really good, and I'm looking forward to dusting off CK2 and getting some new DLC:s.

One question though: will there be any changes to the "Moral authority" system? I hate it. It always messes things up to tie whole religions to 5 holy cities (i.e. I might make all of India norse pagan but it will still lack any moral authority if it's not in control of its European cities).
 

Casko

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If the Crusade is successful, what will happen depends on the top contributor’s stance. There are three stances; ‘Selfish’, ‘For my Beneficiary’ and ‘Comply with Papal Demands’. The AI will always choose to go with Papal Demands.

Would it make sense for AI if they are either Greedy, Cynical, and perhaps few other traits to not go with papal demands, and rather well, be Cynical and Greedy and desire the holy land more for its wealth and influence than merely for the good of the Faith?
 

Positronius

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Amazing news. Some basic game mechanics, like this one, needed a rework for a long time.

I hope that the new expansion also improve the mechanics related to the way you control the papacy and make your relationship with the Pope more useful and historically accurate (Making possible that the Pope becomes your ally, for example, and more easy to ask him the excomunication of a rival catholic ruler of yours, granting a Casus Belli, etc).

Some additions to the way you control the Kaiser throne in the HRE would also be great.
 

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I'm speachless. We suspected that it might be the Crusades.. but I was afraid that it might only be a theory. But now I can't wait for it to come out! I love you guys so much! Will have to watch Kingdom Of Heaven again soon :) oh and please give us new Arab portraits and units... they are long overdue.
 

MarteVermelho

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Amazing!
But pretty please show some love for the Orthodox Church and the Islamic religions too. Orthodoxy is the blandest religion in the game. The Islamic ones have some very irritating mechanics and need Jihad 2.0 (aka Butlerian Jihad)
 

Parafoudre

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Jun 15, 2017
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Meh.

I like the switching character thing. But I would rather have had an African overhaul. My main Concern is that I would have preferred that to be a universal system. Jihads and other great holy wars will feel pretty bland now.
 

ScienceNerd

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I've said before that there should be a mechanic for the player to designate a cadet branch (either forcibly imposing it as the dynastic head, or voluntarily as a junior dynast). A cadet branch "dynast" should be designated by a water droplet or a very faint pinkish drop of blood to designate their weak ties. It should be possible to switch to a cadet branch to avoid a game over, but doing so should impose a score penalty or something. Cadet branches should default to a quartered versions of the original arms or other variations that show a weak connection. A player should be able to designate the new cadet branch name and arms before "releasing" them.
So, like client states in EU4
 

ScienceNerd

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Meh.

I like the switching character thing. But I would rather have had an African overhaul. My main Concern is that I would have preferred that to be a universal system. Jihads and other great holy wars will feel pretty bland now.
In any case, it is still much needed, and cadet branches are definitely within our grasp. Right now, we need to recruit new people to buy the game so they keep churning out DLC.
 

IanReSc

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I just gotta say that I might have tears in my eyes. And it is my understanding that this is just the free patch content? So there is more to come?

I'd sacrifice my first born to you Paradox, if I hadn't already planned on marrying her. So her mother it is, then. :D