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CK2 Dev Diary #83 - God Wills It!

Greetings!

PDXCon is soon upon us, and we hope to see you there! During the event we will reveal the name and theme of the Expansion we’re working on, and after PDXCon is over we’ll have plenty of Dev Diaries that will delve deep into the new expansion features. For now though we’d like to present the main feature of the free patch that’ll accompany the Expansion!

It is time to don your armor and ready your steed, as the Vicar of Christ himself has declared that all who join in expelling the infidel from the Holy Land will have their sins absolved!

The Crusades are a very iconic part of the game, though one that has barely seen any change since the game was released 6 years ago. A lot of fantastic and interesting systems have been added to the game over the years, and we wanted this very central feature to feel as deep and interesting as any one of them.

The Catholic faith will no longer use the old Great Holy War system - instead they will use a new and improved system specifically tailored to both increase immersion and enhance the gameplay surrounding the crusades. This system is massive, and it might be hard for us to fit all of the information into this single DD, but we’ll give it our best shot!

We have specifically aimed to fix the issue where, unless you intend to win the crusade, there was no real reason for you as a player to participate except to get the ‘Crusader’ trait.

To accomplish this we’ve made Catholic crusades work in two phases; first there is a Preparation Phase, followed by the actual war. To communicate this properly we needed a new dedicated interface. Enter, the Crusade View:

CrusadeDD_PrepPhase.png

Holy shield, on the wall, which is the holiest city of them all?

When the pope decides that it's time for a new Crusade, he will send a call to the Catholic world for support. When he does you can access the Crusade View by clicking the Crusade Banner underneath your portrait.

In the Crusade View you will have access to a plethora of useful information, and you’ll be able to take actions to help the crusade or to alter its course. You will be able to see the Pope’s proposed recipient (if any) in the top left corner, and the target character and title in the top right. There will be a timer counting down to the date where the war will start. During this time, the following can be done:
  • Catholic rulers can pledge their military support to the crusade. When they do, they appear in the list of Pledged Participants. For every crusader that pledges, prestige, piety and artifacts are added to the War Chest. The religion being targeted by the crusade can ‘counter pledge’, and it’s the relative strength of these two sides that is shown as ‘Total Strength’ underneath their portraits. Pledged rulers will automatically be called into the war as it starts.
  • All Catholic rulers get the option of donating money to the War Chest in exchange for piety and opinion with the Pope. This money is then added to the War Chest, more on that later.
  • Crusaders who have pledged military support can add a beneficiary to the crusade. This character must be a dynasty member, and depending on your participation in the crusade they might be granted a title in the Crusader Kingdom should the crusade be successful. More on this later.
  • Players can pay piety to change the target character and/or title. This cost starts fairly low, but doubles each time to avoid spamming. This means that if you’d rather have a crusade target a scary infidel realm on your immediate border, you can make it happen if you’re pious enough!
  • Players can choose their ‘Stance’ on what they want to happen should they be the most participating crusader. More on this later.

If a Catholic ruler chooses to neither pledge to the crusade or donate money to the War Chest, the Pope might get very upset with them. Depending on the rulers tier and influence, this can range from a simple piety hit to an outright excommunication. Revoking your pledge also carries a similar penalty.

Regarding the War Chest - when the preparation phase is over, 20% of the money in the War Chest will be divided between the pledged Crusaders, in order to provide for their levies and fleets as they go to war. The rest is saved until the end of the Crusade, where it is used as rewards for the participants and to set up the Crusader Kingdom. The Crusader Kingdom will receive 10% of the War Chest in order to steel them against imminent counterattacks. The rest (including prestige, piety and artifacts) is given out to the Crusaders who participated in the crusade, in order to motivate you as the player to participate as much as you can - even if you don’t expect to win. To ensure that the top contributors don't take all of the War Chest rewards, any one participant can receive at most 20% of it. As the Catholic world tends to be rather… generous with their donations, this often translates into a lot of wealth! Beware though, if the crusade is lost the majority of the contents of the War Chest will be lost, and Christendom will be weaker for it...

When the Preparation Phase is over, the war begins and the Crusade View changes:
CrusadeDD_WarPhase.png

Note that the numbers are still WIP.

The Countdown Timer is replaced by the warscore and the name of the Crusade is updated, otherwise the functionality remains the same (except for being able to change the target, of course, at this point it’s too late for that).

If the Crusade is successful, what will happen depends on the top contributor’s stance. There are three stances; ‘Selfish’, ‘For my Beneficiary’ and ‘Comply with Papal Demands’. The AI will always choose to go with Papal Demands.
  • The ‘Selfish’ stance will see the top contributor take the lands for themselves. Doing this completely disqualifies them from the War Chest though, and is seen as impious by the Pope.
  • The ‘For my Beneficiary’ stance will see your beneficiary become King/Queen of the lands. While still not approved by the Pope, it’s not seen as impious, and you still qualify for (parts) of the War Chest. If the pope has chosen no recipient for the title, this is the default behaviour and carries no penalties.
  • The ‘Comply with Papal Demands’ stance simply sees whoever the Pope wishes to rule the lands become the King or Queen. If he has no opinion, it will go to the top contributor’s beneficiary.

In the old system, the title and all under it went to the winner of the crusade. You often saw France or the HRE own for example Jerusalem, which in all honesty was very boring, and more often than not only resulted in an inheritance mess. While a player can still choose to use the old system by choosing the ‘Selfish’ stance, the new default behaviour is completely different. Unless the Pope wishes to restore an existing King or Claimant (where the normal, old, behaviour will be used) a Crusader Kingdom will be set up:

CrusadeDD_JerusalemAllSetUp.png


A Crusader Kingdom is a multicultural kingdom made up of the beneficiaries of all participants. The top contributing participants will have their beneficiaries get higher titles in the target kingdom. To avoid the player gaming the system using inheritance, the Kingdom is always set up to disallow external inheritance - and the AI tends to choose beneficiaries that do not stand to inherit or are married to someone who might inherit.

If your beneficiary receives land in a Crusader Kingdom, your entire Dynasty will receive a monthly boon to piety until their death. In a future Dev Diary we will go into more detail regarding the importance of Piety in the Catholic sphere, but rest assured that it’s going to be more important to be seen as pious than it’s ever been before - making the boon from your beneficiary rather significant.

The new ruler of the Crusader State, in order to properly rule such a challenging realm, gets a trait appropriately named ‘Crusader King/Queen’ which confers a massive same religion opinion along with some other goodies.

And, for the finale, if your beneficiary is selected to be the King or Queen of the Kingdom - you have the option of switching over to them, taking control of the newly established Crusader Kingdom and leaving your old character behind (which is also part of the reason why you can only choose members of your own dynasty as beneficiaries). We believe that doing a thing such as this will provide the quintessential CK2 experience, where you have to both manage unruly vassals and defend against vengeful religious foes!

Stay tuned for future Dev Diaries, where we might go into detail on a few… special crusades.
 

Jia Xu

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This isn't exactly how it happened.
Obviously, not. Alexios Angelos invited the crusaders in with the intent of trading aid for the crusade in exchange for the re-installation of his deposed father, the former Emperor issac II. The crusaders came and found out that Alexios couldn't deliver what he promised as he was unable to get the empire under control.

But adding any system based off of those events would be terribly convoluted, because they're so specific.
 

IntoTheMaelstrom

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Neat.

Too bad I don't really play Christians any more. Unless it is to undermine them from within with my Secret Pagan Society.
Username checks out. My christian playtime is 1%, while muslim is similar. It's quite sad that apart from norse, pagans are so ignored. And even norse are somewhat lackluster. I wish reformed pagans got access to hermetics though



Is the Pope still the war leader ?
It always feel like cheating when playing as a Muslim, you can just ignore everything happening and just send a strike team to siege Rome and get 100% WS, while the HRE is still mustering...
That has been patched some time ago... I think maybe even in last patch. It gives max 50% or 75% warscore
 

kmh42

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This is so awesome. I always thought you never going to do that because you would do it in a DLC and this would brake apart the player base yet again but you deliver this beast of a feature after that many years after the games release via ptatch. You are f***ing awesome PDX!
I will never stop playing CK2 as long you deliver such patches for it!
 

Ols

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Obviously, not. Alexios Angelos invited the crusaders in with the intent of trading aid for the crusade in exchange for the re-installation of his deposed father, the former Emperor issac II. The crusaders came and found out that Alexios couldn't deliver what he promised as he was unable to get the empire under control.

But adding any system based off of those events would be terribly convoluted, because they're so specific.

Perhaps a trigger could be the Byzantines fighting a claimant war. Option to intervene on behalf of the claimant (in exchange for concessions) or to attack and replace the Byzantines with the Latin Empire (most probably on in some select duchies to avoid it being overpowered).
 

Me_

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I feel kind of sad. A lot seems to point towards this being the last DLC and here we get such awesome feature.
 

Viridianus

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The Catholic faith will no longer use the old Great Holy War system
1)Create Crusades;
2)Create Great Holy Wars as Crusades for Pagans and Jihads as Crusades for Muslims;
3)Change the mechanics of Crusades so it would no longer be as in Great Holy Wars.
Are you kidding? This *must* work on Great Holy Wars too if introduced. At least induced by non-secular leader of religion not Fylkir
But there's a global limit of one new-style Crusade being active (preparation or war phase) at a time.
This, therefore, is also awful - even without the previous paragraph, if you have both Catholic and Fraticelli Papacy, they won't be able to have a Crusade simultaneously.
I wish reformed pagans got access to hermetics though
So true
 

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I feel kind of sad. A lot seems to point towards this being the last DLC and here we get such awesome feature.

What points towards this being the last DLC? CKII can keep going until it stops selling.
 

Thure

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Obviously, not. Alexios Angelos invited the crusaders in with the intent of trading aid for the crusade in exchange for the re-installation of his deposed father, the former Emperor issac II. The crusaders came and found out that Alexios couldn't deliver what he promised as he was unable to get the empire under control.

But adding any system based off of those events would be terribly convoluted, because they're so specific.

Maybe something about the money. The fourth crusade only happened because the Crusaders don't had enough moneys to pay the ships from Venice. So maybe if the war chest has not enough money it could trigger that the Crusader pillage/conquere everything on their way or something like this? Or it would lead to a random war with another state somewhere between this territories.
 

Xetfield

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I really wonder where these 2 dislikes came from.
 

Chlodio

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My guess/hope was that they found a way to deal with that problem. Either putting the armies under central control or giving the AI "ally orders" to follow the player's, or Pope's, army or something like that.

Let's hope so, the current model is ridiculous:

LEGATE: My holiness, we have gathered 100K Crusaders and the Saracens only have 30K men.
POPE: Excellent, our victory is assured.

Five years later

LEGATE: My holiness, all the Crusaders are dead and the Saracens only suffered minor losses.
POPE: But how can that be?
LEGATE: My holiness, turns out sending them 10K at the time was a bad idea, before we could bring reinforcements, the arrived Crusaders were wiped out.
POPE: Who could have foreseen that? The plan was sound.
 
Last edited:

forcefieldkid

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What points towards this being the last DLC? CKII can keep going until it stops selling.

If I recall correctly, it was stated before Jade Dragon that there would be 1 or 2 DLC left, and since this is number 2 since then..

Though I'm still a fairly new player, I think it is coming on time to wrap up CK2, certainly if this new DLC is crusades focused and the free patch is so loaded with new stuff, and loose ends being tied up then they have covered pretty much everything the game possibly can.

Closing it up allows the chance to finally a complete pack for sale, and to even pack up some of the DLC into related themed packs, with an appropriate price drop, offering accessibility to the game and it's DLC without it being intimidating and never ending.
 

Ols

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Oh i wish some changes in Great Holy Wars and Jihads too cause they play all the same style like the crusades were until this new upcoming patch

GHWs aren't historical though, and (lesser) Jihads were inherently defensive wars (defending the Ummah against incursion from Crusaders). It doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense for Muslims to persuade the Caliph to steer the target to a far off land or to hand it over to some random person. I do prefer the idea of the Caliph making it an ultimatum - "I'm attacking Jerusalem, if you don't help then you're a bad Muslim".

The whole Great Holy War thing is too homogenous and not all pagans should behave like that. In the case of most reformed pagan realms that church hierarchy would be based exclusively within the sole dominant state that reformed the faith. The same as for Zoroastrians. The difference for Zoroastrians should be that the Shahanshah alone can suggest targets to the High Priest because obviously his word should have a lot of sway.