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CK2 Dev Diary #83 - God Wills It!

Greetings!

PDXCon is soon upon us, and we hope to see you there! During the event we will reveal the name and theme of the Expansion we’re working on, and after PDXCon is over we’ll have plenty of Dev Diaries that will delve deep into the new expansion features. For now though we’d like to present the main feature of the free patch that’ll accompany the Expansion!

It is time to don your armor and ready your steed, as the Vicar of Christ himself has declared that all who join in expelling the infidel from the Holy Land will have their sins absolved!

The Crusades are a very iconic part of the game, though one that has barely seen any change since the game was released 6 years ago. A lot of fantastic and interesting systems have been added to the game over the years, and we wanted this very central feature to feel as deep and interesting as any one of them.

The Catholic faith will no longer use the old Great Holy War system - instead they will use a new and improved system specifically tailored to both increase immersion and enhance the gameplay surrounding the crusades. This system is massive, and it might be hard for us to fit all of the information into this single DD, but we’ll give it our best shot!

We have specifically aimed to fix the issue where, unless you intend to win the crusade, there was no real reason for you as a player to participate except to get the ‘Crusader’ trait.

To accomplish this we’ve made Catholic crusades work in two phases; first there is a Preparation Phase, followed by the actual war. To communicate this properly we needed a new dedicated interface. Enter, the Crusade View:

CrusadeDD_PrepPhase.png

Holy shield, on the wall, which is the holiest city of them all?

When the pope decides that it's time for a new Crusade, he will send a call to the Catholic world for support. When he does you can access the Crusade View by clicking the Crusade Banner underneath your portrait.

In the Crusade View you will have access to a plethora of useful information, and you’ll be able to take actions to help the crusade or to alter its course. You will be able to see the Pope’s proposed recipient (if any) in the top left corner, and the target character and title in the top right. There will be a timer counting down to the date where the war will start. During this time, the following can be done:
  • Catholic rulers can pledge their military support to the crusade. When they do, they appear in the list of Pledged Participants. For every crusader that pledges, prestige, piety and artifacts are added to the War Chest. The religion being targeted by the crusade can ‘counter pledge’, and it’s the relative strength of these two sides that is shown as ‘Total Strength’ underneath their portraits. Pledged rulers will automatically be called into the war as it starts.
  • All Catholic rulers get the option of donating money to the War Chest in exchange for piety and opinion with the Pope. This money is then added to the War Chest, more on that later.
  • Crusaders who have pledged military support can add a beneficiary to the crusade. This character must be a dynasty member, and depending on your participation in the crusade they might be granted a title in the Crusader Kingdom should the crusade be successful. More on this later.
  • Players can pay piety to change the target character and/or title. This cost starts fairly low, but doubles each time to avoid spamming. This means that if you’d rather have a crusade target a scary infidel realm on your immediate border, you can make it happen if you’re pious enough!
  • Players can choose their ‘Stance’ on what they want to happen should they be the most participating crusader. More on this later.

If a Catholic ruler chooses to neither pledge to the crusade or donate money to the War Chest, the Pope might get very upset with them. Depending on the rulers tier and influence, this can range from a simple piety hit to an outright excommunication. Revoking your pledge also carries a similar penalty.

Regarding the War Chest - when the preparation phase is over, 20% of the money in the War Chest will be divided between the pledged Crusaders, in order to provide for their levies and fleets as they go to war. The rest is saved until the end of the Crusade, where it is used as rewards for the participants and to set up the Crusader Kingdom. The Crusader Kingdom will receive 10% of the War Chest in order to steel them against imminent counterattacks. The rest (including prestige, piety and artifacts) is given out to the Crusaders who participated in the crusade, in order to motivate you as the player to participate as much as you can - even if you don’t expect to win. To ensure that the top contributors don't take all of the War Chest rewards, any one participant can receive at most 20% of it. As the Catholic world tends to be rather… generous with their donations, this often translates into a lot of wealth! Beware though, if the crusade is lost the majority of the contents of the War Chest will be lost, and Christendom will be weaker for it...

When the Preparation Phase is over, the war begins and the Crusade View changes:
CrusadeDD_WarPhase.png

Note that the numbers are still WIP.

The Countdown Timer is replaced by the warscore and the name of the Crusade is updated, otherwise the functionality remains the same (except for being able to change the target, of course, at this point it’s too late for that).

If the Crusade is successful, what will happen depends on the top contributor’s stance. There are three stances; ‘Selfish’, ‘For my Beneficiary’ and ‘Comply with Papal Demands’. The AI will always choose to go with Papal Demands.
  • The ‘Selfish’ stance will see the top contributor take the lands for themselves. Doing this completely disqualifies them from the War Chest though, and is seen as impious by the Pope.
  • The ‘For my Beneficiary’ stance will see your beneficiary become King/Queen of the lands. While still not approved by the Pope, it’s not seen as impious, and you still qualify for (parts) of the War Chest. If the pope has chosen no recipient for the title, this is the default behaviour and carries no penalties.
  • The ‘Comply with Papal Demands’ stance simply sees whoever the Pope wishes to rule the lands become the King or Queen. If he has no opinion, it will go to the top contributor’s beneficiary.

In the old system, the title and all under it went to the winner of the crusade. You often saw France or the HRE own for example Jerusalem, which in all honesty was very boring, and more often than not only resulted in an inheritance mess. While a player can still choose to use the old system by choosing the ‘Selfish’ stance, the new default behaviour is completely different. Unless the Pope wishes to restore an existing King or Claimant (where the normal, old, behaviour will be used) a Crusader Kingdom will be set up:

CrusadeDD_JerusalemAllSetUp.png


A Crusader Kingdom is a multicultural kingdom made up of the beneficiaries of all participants. The top contributing participants will have their beneficiaries get higher titles in the target kingdom. To avoid the player gaming the system using inheritance, the Kingdom is always set up to disallow external inheritance - and the AI tends to choose beneficiaries that do not stand to inherit or are married to someone who might inherit.

If your beneficiary receives land in a Crusader Kingdom, your entire Dynasty will receive a monthly boon to piety until their death. In a future Dev Diary we will go into more detail regarding the importance of Piety in the Catholic sphere, but rest assured that it’s going to be more important to be seen as pious than it’s ever been before - making the boon from your beneficiary rather significant.

The new ruler of the Crusader State, in order to properly rule such a challenging realm, gets a trait appropriately named ‘Crusader King/Queen’ which confers a massive same religion opinion along with some other goodies.

And, for the finale, if your beneficiary is selected to be the King or Queen of the Kingdom - you have the option of switching over to them, taking control of the newly established Crusader Kingdom and leaving your old character behind (which is also part of the reason why you can only choose members of your own dynasty as beneficiaries). We believe that doing a thing such as this will provide the quintessential CK2 experience, where you have to both manage unruly vassals and defend against vengeful religious foes!

Stay tuned for future Dev Diaries, where we might go into detail on a few… special crusades.
 

Knotz

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Thing I like a lot:

Game sanctioned way of switching to a new dynasty member, wide new avenues of drama and a nice soft restart for when you're already an unchallengeable juggernaut.

Thing(s) I'm kind of bummed by:

That the content seems to stop as soon as the crusade does. A handful of events relating to the crusader states in particular would be great. I'm also wondering whether, if they're basically like a normal kingdom when the crusade is over, how the rest of Christianity would respond to a Jihad following right on the heels of their victory. I wouldn't want an overwhelming response but some acknolwedgement that no one really wants to see such hard won gains so quickly erased and maybe some monetary assistance would be neat.

Also, melting pot event for something like "Crusader culture?" I imagine something along the lines of Italian-Dutch-Welch culture and every other possible variation would be tedious to accomodate but a long term, stable state that the player (or AI) isn't actively trying to turn monocultural getting an event saying: "Congrats you've created a really eclectic mishmash of disparate culture that has attained some level of discernible homogeneity!" would be fun.
 

Tryvenyal

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Also, melting pot event for something like "Crusader culture?" I imagine something along the lines of Italian-Dutch-Welch culture and every other possible variation would be tedious to accomodate but a long term, stable state that the player (or AI) isn't actively trying to turn monocultural getting an event saying: "Congrats you've created a really eclectic mishmash of disparate culture that has attained some level of discernible homogeneity!" would be fun.

You want something like fantasy melting pots? Dynamic menlting pots.. Could great but how should such a feature look? :)
 

Knotz

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You want something like fantasy melting pots? Dynamic menlting pots.. Could great but how should such a feature look? :)

If by fantasy melting pots you mean "having no historical precedent" then yeah, sure if it'd make for a more interesting story. If you mean fantasy melting pot in the sense of rediscovering Atlantean culture via the merpeople then no (althooouuugh...).
 

Kenlin

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If by fantasy melting pots you mean "having no historical precedent" then yeah, sure if it'd make for a more interesting story. If you mean fantasy melting pot in the sense of rediscovering Atlantean culture via the merpeople then no (althooouuugh...).

I wonder if fantasy melting pots could be incorporated in a sort of similar way to creating custom kingdoms. They could take a random mixture of traits from both parent cultures. It could be a fun little system.
 

Chrispim

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Deus Vult !

That's a nice rework for CK2! Thk you!
 

dreamonceh

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Finally. It could have come earlier, even as a dlc, albeit it could sound not so well but still could have replaced that schleep sunset invasion.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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The culture has precedent : the crusaders soon adopted clothing style and other stuff from greek and arabic culture. Ck+ calls this culture Outremer.
Which culture group would it be associated with?

What would you do about multicultural crusades targeting other locations? (Crusade for Hispania/Andalusia, Baltic Crusades, something like a Crusade against the Cathars where the French king ends up not the beneficiary, or there's no Catholic with a claim to it.)

I like the idea of a blended culture arising, but I'm not sure how to place it mechanically.
 

ernst_earnest

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Which culture group would it be associated with?

What would you do about multicultural crusades targeting other locations? (Crusade for Hispania/Andalusia, Baltic Crusades, something like a Crusade against the Cathars where the French king ends up not the beneficiary, or there's no Catholic with a claim to it.)

I like the idea of a blended culture arising, but I'm not sure how to place it mechanically.

Make one based on a mixture with arabic elements for all territories conquered in the east and we already have one Andalusian for Spain.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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Make one based on a mixture with arabic elements for all territories conquered in the east and we already have one Andalusian for Spain.
The only problem is that Andalusian is *islamic* Spanish, so I'm not sure it's appropriate as the Crusader culture. I'm just not sure a multicultural crusade would settle down and adopt the culture of the guys they've just thrown out.

Edit: and again, which culture group do you place any of them in? In the same way that French, Norman, Italian, Occitan and (the dead) Roman make up the Latin group, where do you put your blended cultures?
 

LeSingeAffame

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The only problem is that Andalusian is *islamic* Spanish, so I'm not sure it's appropriate as the Crusader culture. I'm just not sure a multicultural crusade would settle down and adopt the culture of the guys they've just thrown out.

Edit: and again, which culture group do you place any of them in? In the same way that French, Norman, Italian, Occitan and (the dead) Roman make up the Latin group, where do you put your blended cultures?
The Crusade overthrow the ruling class, not the people
 

Kapitalisti

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The Crusade overthrow the ruling class, not the people

Yeah, imagine having won a Crusade and finding out you now rule a small population purely made up of insane/zealous/violent/any combination second and third sons, noble bastards, mercenaries and clergymen. You'd be begging the Muslims to take Jerusalem back within the month.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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The Crusade overthrow the ruling class, not the people
Sorry, I thought we were talking about the blended culture that would result from multicultural crusaders now being the rulers of the area. In the same way that Norse ruling French (and similar) produces Norman, and Norman ruling Anglo-Saxon creates English, if there's going to be a mixed grab bag of crusaders ruling Andalusians, what would the blended culture be?

It just doesn't seem to fit that the crusaders would completely abandon their ways to become Andalusian, an identity strongly tied to Islamic ideals. Andalusian seems to only crop up if muslims continue to hold Visigothic land in the first place.
 

Wolfsgeist

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First of all, this is awesome!

I have some questions though. Couldn't there be a stance where you grab all the land for yourself, like with 'Selfish', but where you abandon your other titles? So getting rid of everything in Europe like many nobles did and focusing on the Holy Land.

Second, is the establishment of 'secondary crusaders states' like OTL Antioch, Edessa and Tripolis a thing or could it made a thing? A participant could declare to abandon the crusade's target itself but fight one of the 'defenders' directly to conquer a duchy for himself, maybe only in kingdoms adjacent to the targeted kingdom, so Syria or Egypt for Jersualem for example.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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First of all, this is awesome!

I have some questions though. Couldn't there be a stance where you grab all the land for yourself, like with 'Selfish', but where you abandon your other titles? So getting rid of everything in Europe like many nobles did and focusing on the Holy Land.

Second, is the establishment of 'secondary crusaders states' like OTL Antioch, Edessa and Tripolis a thing or could it made a thing? A participant could declare to abandon the crusade's target itself but fight one of the 'defenders' directly to conquer a duchy for himself, maybe only in kingdoms adjacent to the targeted kingdom, so Syria or Egypt for Jersualem for example.

If you want to abandon your titles "At home", then choose greedy, and then give your old titles away.

If I read the dev responses correctly, then it's possible for crusaders to seize duchies in the area of the crusade that aren't directly targeted, and set them up as Crusader states.
 

ernst_earnest

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Sorry, I thought we were talking about the blended culture that would result from multicultural crusaders now being the rulers of the area. In the same way that Norse ruling French (and similar) produces Norman, and Norman ruling Anglo-Saxon creates English, if there's going to be a mixed grab bag of crusaders ruling Andalusians, what would the blended culture be?

It just doesn't seem to fit that the crusaders would completely abandon their ways to become Andalusian, an identity strongly tied to Islamic ideals. Andalusian seems to only crop up if muslims continue to hold Visigothic land in the first place.

No I meant andalusian would be the equivalent to outremer culture. The group I am not sure.