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CK2 Dev Diary #83 - God Wills It!

Greetings!

PDXCon is soon upon us, and we hope to see you there! During the event we will reveal the name and theme of the Expansion we’re working on, and after PDXCon is over we’ll have plenty of Dev Diaries that will delve deep into the new expansion features. For now though we’d like to present the main feature of the free patch that’ll accompany the Expansion!

It is time to don your armor and ready your steed, as the Vicar of Christ himself has declared that all who join in expelling the infidel from the Holy Land will have their sins absolved!

The Crusades are a very iconic part of the game, though one that has barely seen any change since the game was released 6 years ago. A lot of fantastic and interesting systems have been added to the game over the years, and we wanted this very central feature to feel as deep and interesting as any one of them.

The Catholic faith will no longer use the old Great Holy War system - instead they will use a new and improved system specifically tailored to both increase immersion and enhance the gameplay surrounding the crusades. This system is massive, and it might be hard for us to fit all of the information into this single DD, but we’ll give it our best shot!

We have specifically aimed to fix the issue where, unless you intend to win the crusade, there was no real reason for you as a player to participate except to get the ‘Crusader’ trait.

To accomplish this we’ve made Catholic crusades work in two phases; first there is a Preparation Phase, followed by the actual war. To communicate this properly we needed a new dedicated interface. Enter, the Crusade View:

CrusadeDD_PrepPhase.png

Holy shield, on the wall, which is the holiest city of them all?

When the pope decides that it's time for a new Crusade, he will send a call to the Catholic world for support. When he does you can access the Crusade View by clicking the Crusade Banner underneath your portrait.

In the Crusade View you will have access to a plethora of useful information, and you’ll be able to take actions to help the crusade or to alter its course. You will be able to see the Pope’s proposed recipient (if any) in the top left corner, and the target character and title in the top right. There will be a timer counting down to the date where the war will start. During this time, the following can be done:
  • Catholic rulers can pledge their military support to the crusade. When they do, they appear in the list of Pledged Participants. For every crusader that pledges, prestige, piety and artifacts are added to the War Chest. The religion being targeted by the crusade can ‘counter pledge’, and it’s the relative strength of these two sides that is shown as ‘Total Strength’ underneath their portraits. Pledged rulers will automatically be called into the war as it starts.
  • All Catholic rulers get the option of donating money to the War Chest in exchange for piety and opinion with the Pope. This money is then added to the War Chest, more on that later.
  • Crusaders who have pledged military support can add a beneficiary to the crusade. This character must be a dynasty member, and depending on your participation in the crusade they might be granted a title in the Crusader Kingdom should the crusade be successful. More on this later.
  • Players can pay piety to change the target character and/or title. This cost starts fairly low, but doubles each time to avoid spamming. This means that if you’d rather have a crusade target a scary infidel realm on your immediate border, you can make it happen if you’re pious enough!
  • Players can choose their ‘Stance’ on what they want to happen should they be the most participating crusader. More on this later.

If a Catholic ruler chooses to neither pledge to the crusade or donate money to the War Chest, the Pope might get very upset with them. Depending on the rulers tier and influence, this can range from a simple piety hit to an outright excommunication. Revoking your pledge also carries a similar penalty.

Regarding the War Chest - when the preparation phase is over, 20% of the money in the War Chest will be divided between the pledged Crusaders, in order to provide for their levies and fleets as they go to war. The rest is saved until the end of the Crusade, where it is used as rewards for the participants and to set up the Crusader Kingdom. The Crusader Kingdom will receive 10% of the War Chest in order to steel them against imminent counterattacks. The rest (including prestige, piety and artifacts) is given out to the Crusaders who participated in the crusade, in order to motivate you as the player to participate as much as you can - even if you don’t expect to win. To ensure that the top contributors don't take all of the War Chest rewards, any one participant can receive at most 20% of it. As the Catholic world tends to be rather… generous with their donations, this often translates into a lot of wealth! Beware though, if the crusade is lost the majority of the contents of the War Chest will be lost, and Christendom will be weaker for it...

When the Preparation Phase is over, the war begins and the Crusade View changes:
CrusadeDD_WarPhase.png

Note that the numbers are still WIP.

The Countdown Timer is replaced by the warscore and the name of the Crusade is updated, otherwise the functionality remains the same (except for being able to change the target, of course, at this point it’s too late for that).

If the Crusade is successful, what will happen depends on the top contributor’s stance. There are three stances; ‘Selfish’, ‘For my Beneficiary’ and ‘Comply with Papal Demands’. The AI will always choose to go with Papal Demands.
  • The ‘Selfish’ stance will see the top contributor take the lands for themselves. Doing this completely disqualifies them from the War Chest though, and is seen as impious by the Pope.
  • The ‘For my Beneficiary’ stance will see your beneficiary become King/Queen of the lands. While still not approved by the Pope, it’s not seen as impious, and you still qualify for (parts) of the War Chest. If the pope has chosen no recipient for the title, this is the default behaviour and carries no penalties.
  • The ‘Comply with Papal Demands’ stance simply sees whoever the Pope wishes to rule the lands become the King or Queen. If he has no opinion, it will go to the top contributor’s beneficiary.

In the old system, the title and all under it went to the winner of the crusade. You often saw France or the HRE own for example Jerusalem, which in all honesty was very boring, and more often than not only resulted in an inheritance mess. While a player can still choose to use the old system by choosing the ‘Selfish’ stance, the new default behaviour is completely different. Unless the Pope wishes to restore an existing King or Claimant (where the normal, old, behaviour will be used) a Crusader Kingdom will be set up:

CrusadeDD_JerusalemAllSetUp.png


A Crusader Kingdom is a multicultural kingdom made up of the beneficiaries of all participants. The top contributing participants will have their beneficiaries get higher titles in the target kingdom. To avoid the player gaming the system using inheritance, the Kingdom is always set up to disallow external inheritance - and the AI tends to choose beneficiaries that do not stand to inherit or are married to someone who might inherit.

If your beneficiary receives land in a Crusader Kingdom, your entire Dynasty will receive a monthly boon to piety until their death. In a future Dev Diary we will go into more detail regarding the importance of Piety in the Catholic sphere, but rest assured that it’s going to be more important to be seen as pious than it’s ever been before - making the boon from your beneficiary rather significant.

The new ruler of the Crusader State, in order to properly rule such a challenging realm, gets a trait appropriately named ‘Crusader King/Queen’ which confers a massive same religion opinion along with some other goodies.

And, for the finale, if your beneficiary is selected to be the King or Queen of the Kingdom - you have the option of switching over to them, taking control of the newly established Crusader Kingdom and leaving your old character behind (which is also part of the reason why you can only choose members of your own dynasty as beneficiaries). We believe that doing a thing such as this will provide the quintessential CK2 experience, where you have to both manage unruly vassals and defend against vengeful religious foes!

Stay tuned for future Dev Diaries, where we might go into detail on a few… special crusades.
 

Rags17

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The Crusader States appears throughout the war, whereas the distribution of the Crusader Kingdom happens when the war has been finished. So if your beneficiary receives the titles in the Crusader State, the beneficiary is landed and no longer appropriate as a beneficiary for the Crusader Kingdom title. So they will be removed as your Beneficiary, and you will have to find a new one.

Currently not possible to abdicate your own lands, no.


Currently ?!?!!!1!!1!!
 

Rags17

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This will probably get buried.

But are there any changes to Levie sizes, taxes etc to taking a crusading area?

Huge issue currently is the crusade state falling apart quickly after as they cannot raise any levies or taxes to counter the opposition in the area due to the penalty for taking those areas for x amount of years.

I think having two shiny new artifacts, 20% of a 43,000 ducat community chest, at least two new Holy Orders on demand and the undying love of the Pope and half of Catholic Europe should help a little bit. :D
 

Vincent Celeste

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Greetings!

PDXCon is soon upon us, and we hope to see you there! During the event we will reveal the name and theme of the Expansion we’re working on, and after PDXCon is over we’ll have plenty of Dev Diaries that will delve deep into the new expansion features. For now though we’d like to present the main feature of the free patch that’ll accompany the Expansion!

It is time to don your armor and ready your steed, as the Vicar of Christ himself has declared that all who join in expelling the infidel from the Holy Land will have their sins absolved!

The Crusades are a very iconic part of the game, though one that has barely seen any change since the game was released 6 years ago. A lot of fantastic and interesting systems have been added to the game over the years, and we wanted this very central feature to feel as deep and interesting as any one of them.

The Catholic faith will no longer use the old Great Holy War system - instead they will use a new and improved system specifically tailored to both increase immersion and enhance the gameplay surrounding the crusades. This system is massive, and it might be hard for us to fit all of the information into this single DD, but we’ll give it our best shot!

We have specifically aimed to fix the issue where, unless you intend to win the crusade, there was no real reason for you as a player to participate except to get the ‘Crusader’ trait.

To accomplish this we’ve made Catholic crusades work in two phases; first there is a Preparation Phase, followed by the actual war. To communicate this properly we needed a new dedicated interface. Enter, the Crusade View:

View attachment 368947
Holy shield, on the wall, which is the holiest city of them all?

When the pope decides that it's time for a new Crusade, he will send a call to the Catholic world for support. When he does you can access the Crusade View by clicking the Crusade Banner underneath your portrait.

In the Crusade View you will have access to a plethora of useful information, and you’ll be able to take actions to help the crusade or to alter its course. You will be able to see the Pope’s proposed recipient (if any) in the top left corner, and the target character and title in the top right. There will be a timer counting down to the date where the war will start. During this time, the following can be done:
  • Catholic rulers can pledge their military support to the crusade. When they do, they appear in the list of Pledged Participants. For every crusader that pledges, prestige, piety and artifacts are added to the War Chest. The religion being targeted by the crusade can ‘counter pledge’, and it’s the relative strength of these two sides that is shown as ‘Total Strength’ underneath their portraits. Pledged rulers will automatically be called into the war as it starts.
  • All Catholic rulers get the option of donating money to the War Chest in exchange for piety and opinion with the Pope. This money is then added to the War Chest, more on that later.
  • Crusaders who have pledged military support can add a beneficiary to the crusade. This character must be a dynasty member, and depending on your participation in the crusade they might be granted a title in the Crusader Kingdom should the crusade be successful. More on this later.
  • Players can pay piety to change the target character and/or title. This cost starts fairly low, but doubles each time to avoid spamming. This means that if you’d rather have a crusade target a scary infidel realm on your immediate border, you can make it happen if you’re pious enough!
  • Players can choose their ‘Stance’ on what they want to happen should they be the most participating crusader. More on this later.

If a Catholic ruler chooses to neither pledge to the crusade or donate money to the War Chest, the Pope might get very upset with them. Depending on the rulers tier and influence, this can range from a simple piety hit to an outright excommunication. Revoking your pledge also carries a similar penalty.

Regarding the War Chest - when the preparation phase is over, 20% of the money in the War Chest will be divided between the pledged Crusaders, in order to provide for their levies and fleets as they go to war. The rest is saved until the end of the Crusade, where it is used as rewards for the participants and to set up the Crusader Kingdom. The Crusader Kingdom will receive 10% of the War Chest in order to steel them against imminent counterattacks. The rest (including prestige, piety and artifacts) is given out to the Crusaders who participated in the crusade, in order to motivate you as the player to participate as much as you can - even if you don’t expect to win. To ensure that the top contributors don't take all of the War Chest rewards, any one participant can receive at most 20% of it. As the Catholic world tends to be rather… generous with their donations, this often translates into a lot of wealth! Beware though, if the crusade is lost the majority of the contents of the War Chest will be lost, and Christendom will be weaker for it...

When the Preparation Phase is over, the war begins and the Crusade View changes:
View attachment 368948
Note that the numbers are still WIP.

The Countdown Timer is replaced by the warscore and the name of the Crusade is updated, otherwise the functionality remains the same (except for being able to change the target, of course, at this point it’s too late for that).

If the Crusade is successful, what will happen depends on the top contributor’s stance. There are three stances; ‘Selfish’, ‘For my Beneficiary’ and ‘Comply with Papal Demands’. The AI will always choose to go with Papal Demands.
  • The ‘Selfish’ stance will see the top contributor take the lands for themselves. Doing this completely disqualifies them from the War Chest though, and is seen as impious by the Pope.
  • The ‘For my Beneficiary’ stance will see your beneficiary become King/Queen of the lands. While still not approved by the Pope, it’s not seen as impious, and you still qualify for (parts) of the War Chest. If the pope has chosen no recipient for the title, this is the default behaviour and carries no penalties.
  • The ‘Comply with Papal Demands’ stance simply sees whoever the Pope wishes to rule the lands become the King or Queen. If he has no opinion, it will go to the top contributor’s beneficiary.

In the old system, the title and all under it went to the winner of the crusade. You often saw France or the HRE own for example Jerusalem, which in all honesty was very boring, and more often than not only resulted in an inheritance mess. While a player can still choose to use the old system by choosing the ‘Selfish’ stance, the new default behaviour is completely different. Unless the Pope wishes to restore an existing King or Claimant (where the normal, old, behaviour will be used) a Crusader Kingdom will be set up:

View attachment 368949

A Crusader Kingdom is a multicultural kingdom made up of the beneficiaries of all participants. The top contributing participants will have their beneficiaries get higher titles in the target kingdom. To avoid the player gaming the system using inheritance, the Kingdom is always set up to disallow external inheritance - and the AI tends to choose beneficiaries that do not stand to inherit or are married to someone who might inherit.

If your beneficiary receives land in a Crusader Kingdom, your entire Dynasty will receive a monthly boon to piety until their death. In a future Dev Diary we will go into more detail regarding the importance of Piety in the Catholic sphere, but rest assured that it’s going to be more important to be seen as pious than it’s ever been before - making the boon from your beneficiary rather significant.

The new ruler of the Crusader State, in order to properly rule such a challenging realm, gets a trait appropriately named ‘Crusader King/Queen’ which confers a massive same religion opinion along with some other goodies.

And, for the finale, if your beneficiary is selected to be the King or Queen of the Kingdom - you have the option of switching over to them, taking control of the newly established Crusader Kingdom and leaving your old character behind (which is also part of the reason why you can only choose members of your own dynasty as beneficiaries). We believe that doing a thing such as this will provide the quintessential CK2 experience, where you have to both manage unruly vassals and defend against vengeful religious foes!

Stay tuned for future Dev Diaries, where we might go into detail on a few… special crusades.


*brings out in the name of god song.* "in the name of god!!! in the name of god!!! in the name of god we go to heaven!!!!!!!!!!!" now this is what I like deus vult!! is alive!!!! and it is real!!!!

TO ME MY BROTHERS!!!!! WE GO TO JERUSALEM!!!! DEUS VULT!!!!!!!
 

vandevere

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This sounds amazing. CK2: Crusader Kings!

I notice that this brings some reasonable reasons for excommunication, does that mean I'm less likely to be excommunicated for no particular reason other than the Pope having a slightly negative opinion of me? Also, will chain-excommunication stop being a thing? Paying up 600 wealth to have it lifted only for the troll-Pope to excommunicate me again a month later is no fun. I should at least get a CB on him for that BS.

I certainly hope the devs bring the Pope up to date with the game mechanics. Thing is, the papal Excommunication mechanics were probably still using base vanilla mechanics. There have been a whole slew of major changes since then, what with Secret Societies, Supernatural Events, and Satanic Societies.

It's time to move the Papal Mechanics up too...
 

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Now I am interested in how the counter pledges work and whether a crusade should actually lose land from counterattacks (resulting in a similarly multi-cultural country into the instigators' territory).
 

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Masternachos

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Vaximillian

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- The word "crusade" ("croisade") is a late thing 16th century, contemporary word was "pilgrimage" or "armed pilgrimage". So war title should probably be "armed pilgrimage for Jerusalem" or something like that if we want the contemporary "look and feel".
Reigning Armed Pilgrims II: Demon-Worship is Magic
 

Orphalesion

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We've made some tweaks in that area so that the Pope will be less helpless when getting bullied, devout Christians helping up the Pope when he's being attacked is one of the improvements.


Arthur

So does that mean when I now conquer Rome and make it the capital of my Pan-European, Pagan Empire, it will actually feel like a real accomplishment, rather than just another province being added to the list?
Also can something be done about the Pope...poping about once Catholicism is wiped off the map? It's a bit of a nuisance to have to fight a handful of crusaders from nowhere every few years during the final portion of the timeline, when I'm busy conquering India.
 

TheDungen

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Please could you allow Orthodox/Miaphysite rulers to assist Catholic Crusades in a limited capacity. This could include donating to the war chest or providing supply inside their provinces as the Crusaders pass through. Refusing to do so could cause the Crusaders to pillage the Orthodox/Miaphysite areas as they pass through, or even change target to somewhere like Constantinople. The Byzantine Empire and Armenian Cilicia did provide some assistance in the First Crusade, so it wouldn't be ahistorical.
I could see a double thing here. There's a chance that the crusade will switch targets and if you are anon catholic christian there is a small chance it could be you but by contributing (bribing) to the crusade you get rid of that chance.
 

Basterbane

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Already know where my first game will take me once this goes live. Start as HRE in 1066, have one of the dynasty members marry a Byzantine princess and win Crusade for him.

What happens with the Crusade mechanic if you mend the schism?
 

Brennan

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It's going to take about half an hour after release for someone to post a screenshot of a Crusade in which Christendom is gathered to put a horse on the throne of Jerusalem...
 

Viridianus

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Several people say this, absolutely nobody says what should be changed or what is missing in original GHWs.
If - and that's a very big if - Crusades are changed GHW induced by non-secular religious head must get changed the same too, because they literally are Crusades, just for Slavic or Romuva or stuff not Catholics.
Now a small sugestion, but can't you add an option to surrender our current title (to heir or other dynasty member) and place ourselves as the beneficiary, kinda like a middle-ground between taking everything and just handing it over to someone else.
Suppose there was already given a no.
Any potential for something like the Albigensian Crusade or the several Hussite Crusades.
Cathar's (which are Albigensians) are already a valid target for Crusade if they control a large part of a kingdom (in the historical case - I think, Aquitaine?). Hussites were in the very end of the timeline historically, it would be a real headache to make them so that it isn't "hey, you have an event... and before you can deal with it the game ends".

 
Last edited:

LordIxion

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1) When the current Crusader King/Queen dies will the heir/player get the trait as well to signify their ownership of a Crusader Kingdom?
2) Will the separate Crusader Duchies get that trait or not as they are only Dukes? Or are there more than 1 new unique crusader trait?
3) If there are 4 successful regular (non-special) crusades during a game will there be 4 people with the Crusader King/Queen trait?
4) It was stated that the Crusader Kingdom gets 10% of the warchest and 2 artifacts. Does the 10% include the additional artifact assigning as well or is it solely those 2 artifacts?
5) Will there be repeated/destroyed artifacts if I give my beneficiary artifacts prior to him/her becoming the Crusader King/Queen? Meaning if I give him a saints finger, a nail from the cross, and the holy prepuce will those new 2 artifacts have the potential to be worthless as they were randomly picked to be a nail and prepuce?
6) Will the Crusader Kingdom ever be allowed to be a Crusader Empire or will it just default into a regular empire with no special mechanics? (Forming Arabia or custom empire as Jerusalem for example)
7) What Crown Authority will the Crusader Kingdom start on? Low/Medium since all the vassals are Catholic/part of the same war?
8) Will these Crusader States have any events pop up after the crusades? Gameplay events such as increased revolt risk due to religious differences or just flavor events such as the Pope writing a letter to check in on your Holy Kingdom?
9) Tied to the above question, any special interactions or things you can do after being made Crusader King/Queen? Call for further invasion of Muslim lads? Petition help from your fellow Catholics or even the Orthodox/Coptic due to a Jihad/Holy War?
 
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