CK2 Dev Diary #65: Along the Silk Road

[tomatinho]

Is there a CB to destroy major trade posts from other states in order to allow me to upgrade the level of my trade posts?

 

[icedt729]

There is a CB to destroy major trade posts from other states in order to allow me to upgrade the level of my trade posts?

Trade posts don't work that way anymore. Now you're able to build and develop trade posts at certain specific points on the Silk Road regardless of what anyone else has built.

 

[Darrenb209]

I'd love to see proper trade routes other than the Silk Road. Especially if disease is reworked a little to follow the trade routes.

Still, this is nice. The Silk Road posts before were problematic. Really useful at their best, utterly worthless at their worst.

 

[BeyondExpectation]

I like these changes, but I reckon that the limited number of spots to build trade posts could have been done better. I hate railroading, and this is somewhat reminiscent of it. I system where the trade posts spots could change based on where has the most prosperity would be nice; too bad that system is Reaper's Due only.

 

[darthfanta]

I think the silk road should have been extended to Constantinople and Venice.

 

[pengoyo]

I wish the silk road went further into Anatolia (to either Smyrna, Nicomedia, or Constantinople). Also wish there was more local trade networks and a trans-Saharan one too.

But I am happy to see that trade is getting some love this DLC, now if only they'd improve merchant republics to make them more about connecting different areas of trade and less about blobbing in a sea zone.

 

[Rip Off Productions]

NB: I am not the stereotypical ERE fanatic on these forums; I've never played them in any PDX game. But when I saw that Silk Road map, something looked odd. My understanding was that the strength of the Silk Road trade had a major effect on Byzantine prosperity or poverty.

EDIT: As well as complaining, I should say that this looks like a really effective overhaul of the Silk Road by the devs. A shiny new feature might have seemed like a better marketing prospect, but they have instead worked on a feature that was functioning but not to the level that they expected. That's a really positive decision.

yeah, having al the routes converge on The City of World's Desire would be fitting, perhaps after debuffing the province's local awesomeness just a tad so that it doesn't ruin the game balance(make it so average trade flow makes the province's income equal to current province income, so that way it shifts up[ and down drastically with available trade).

I think having trade come North from Alexandria(passing through Crete maybe?), and South from Crimea would also help motivate players to take those provinces(especially if they also added an option for Trade Post holders to embargo/cut of folks down stream from them from the Silk Road's benefits)

 

[alex5050]

Yes the fact developed economics in this game will really not be a bad thing.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

It's no longer cut. That said it would be nice if the value that was lost in one path flowed into the others.

What bothers me about this is the idea that the Silk road has an "upstream" and a "downstream".

Yes, if China turn off the taps at their end that will significantly decrease the value of the silk road but it won't make the rest of the routes, through India, Arabia and up into Anatolia non-viable.

Wouldn't it make more sense if the value of a specific silk road trade most was measured primarily by how many other posts it is connected to and how far away they are? I.e. the further away your "last" trade post is the greater the wealth you produce?

 

[Anastasius]

So Devs
Any chance of giving Socotra (and Socotra alone) an option to swap to a Merchant Republic — since everybody loves to do so anyways — if you own Jade Dragon? It would add a lot of gameplay options in the region!

Why Socorta alone? Тhis nonsense has gone on ever since merchant republics became a thing,you have to go trough series of gamey exploits to become a republic,why? Why not just give the player the option to become a republic if the criteria have been met?

 

[Strager]

The one thing I never understood, is how do you make a road out of Silk. Wouldn't it tear?

 

[Masternachos]

Why Socorta alone? Тhis nonsense has gone on ever since merchant republics became a thing,you have to go trough series of gamey exploits to become a republic,why? Why not just give the player the option to become a republic if the criteria have been met?

I was just thinking having some titular or very small duchies east of Socotra would be very helpful for those wishing to establish a merchant republic, at least as a vassal.

 

[TheDungen]

What bothers me about this is the idea that the Silk road has an "upstream" and a "downstream".

Yes, if China turn off the taps at their end that will significantly decrease the value of the silk road but it won't make the rest of the routes, through India, Arabia and up into Anatolia non-viable.

Wouldn't it make more sense if the value of a specific silk road trade most was measured primarily by how many other posts it is connected to and how far away they are? I.e. the further away your "last" trade post is the greater the wealth you produce?

Actually for the silk route it somewhat makes sense, the most valuable good to flow on the route flowed from the far east to the west. The westerners almost always only paid in silver.

 

[Aztlantix]

Will this be compabitable with current save games?

 

[Ksiendzu]

Will this be compabitable with current save games?

Yes, but not recommended to play as always with map changes.
Confirmed on stream.

 

[igneus]

Surprising that you showed as an example the Duke of Socotra, as it's the game I'm playing now (now Sultan of Abyssinia). The Silk Road and both outposts I built have greatly benefited me in this game. I'm currently at 21 gold income per month.
I eagerly waiting for this DLC.

 

[Harassercat]

I like these changes, but I reckon that the limited number of spots to build trade posts could have been done better. I hate railroading, and this is somewhat reminiscent of it. I system where the trade posts spots could change based on where has the most prosperity would be nice; too bad that system is Reaper's Due only.

Just think of it as a map feature. Is the presence of the Mediterranean or Himalayas railroading? The "hot points" on the trade route are a consequence of the underlying landscape; like an oasis in the desert, the confluence of two major rivers, a strategic port location, etc. The major cities on the route typically developed and thrived in such locations. Human history has to a considerable extent been "railroaded" by the physical geography of our world.

 

[Tweakee]

It will generally always be better to control Trade Posts further up the road itself - Trade Posts located further down the road are more susceptible to raiders and occupations, as the trade has to travel through more counties to get there.

That's... odd.

The value of trade goods generally increases with the distance it travels. It seems like the downstream counties should have a much higher earning from the road, balanced by the risk of it suddenly drying up due to war.

A coastal downstream county should be a -massively- more profitable one than an inland upstream one, as the long road leading to it would be feeding naval trade to an entire region. The Silk Road didn't lead to coastal Mediterranean provinces just for the lucky souls who lived right there.

Upstream, inland and poor counties should face reduced profits, with the upstream ones balanced by being easier to keep open.

 

[pengoyo]

I would love a system where multiple trade goods existed on a trade network. Each trade good had a value and a set amount it could move in all direction along the network. By default the amount a trade good can move is how many territories it can move along the trade route.

Building trade post does two things: it gives you a percentage of the value of all trade goods that can reach your trade post and it reduces the cost for trade goods to travel through the trade route connected to your trade post (meaning it can travel further). This creates a dynamic trade network since the more advanced the trade posts are the farther trade items can travel meaning the more each trade post is worth (as there are more trade items in each trade post).

But its not all rainbows and sunshine. If enough important trade posts get destroyed trade can quickly diminish. Also sieges, occupations, and borders between independent states would increase the cost of trade goods to travel along a route. Having that sprawling empire next you implode might make you feel safer, but you might find yourself poorer too.

And as for empire, to help balance the increase income they receive, I'd definitely keep the fact that the owner of the province is who builds the trade post and benefits the most from it. So the emperor might be getting rich off trade, but so are his (potentially unruly) vassals.

It'd be great to see this integrated with merchant republics. I'm imagining set trade routes to be only for land routes and terminate at the sea at important port cities. Across sea tiles they have some default spread, but with the help of merchants they can go much further. Merchant republic would be rebalanced so connecting ports, especially to their capital would be their main source of income (assuming these ports have an assortment of trade goods at them).

This is just a rough idea but I think it has potential. It would still allow china to assert lots of power other the silk road (give it the only source of silk and make it the most valuable trade good). But it would mean even far away from china there is still trade to be made (just not as valuable). I would also have spices and ivory come from off map via India and Africa respectively.

One result of this system would be it would add to the wealth of the middle east as they would lie at the centre of this trade network, hopefully the system would be balanced so the middle east comes rich when trade is flowing but is reliant on trade to make most of its income. Europe on the other hand would be farthest from the most valuable trade goods (there would be some less valuable trade goods that originate in Europe) and so would be much poorer until the late middle ages when trade would travel farther with increased investment in trade posts, trade ports, and technology. But this can be largely balanced for if catholic Europe can unite to fight its holy wars and crusades as it should have more military might as a whole. As for Africa, India, and the Steppe, it would make these areas that some consider to have little impacts on the Europe play a more important role as they determine how much wealth flows to the middle east (or around it in the case of the steppe). And for those who don't play in Europe, it means Europe has some effect on your region of choice as they now have trade goods that can boost your coffers.

All in all, I think this system would be both dynamic (which I find an important part of CK2) and would help tie the map together (meaning you care more about what is happening around the map).

PS special note about the steppe, this system would allow the trade route above the Caspian sea to develop over the course of the game since in the early book marks no trade posts along this route would exist, trade goods would not be able to profligate far enough along it. As time goes on, if trade posts are developed, trade would start to travel further on this route eventually reaching both the black sea and Rus. There could even be an event for the Byzantines to pay to promote trade along this trade route (AKA build trade posts for the nomads).

 

[Czert]

I'd personally like to see the silk road expanded all the way to France, England, Spain, etc.

That, or at least see a dynamic trade system, as the years go on, the silk road expands, and moves farther west at key dates. So that during the last stages of the game, you have the classic trade routes along the north of france, Denmark, etc. through the English channel, and along Sweden, etc, as well as through all the Mediterranean.

lets hope for best