CK2 Dev Diary #65: Along the Silk Road

[SchwarzKatze]

@SchwarzKatze I'm sorry, do you ask me or point me something?..

I was pointing out your original criterion to Thure who named the roads as a reply to your post.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

I feel that Constantinople has been cheated out of its rightful place on the Silk Road:

"From Merv, a variety of trade routes led to the Mediterranean via Baghdad to Damascus or Antioch or Constantinople (Istanbul), and to Trebizond (Trabzon) on the Black Sea." (Frances Wood, The Silk Road)

"The main trade route extended for 4,000 miles from the city of Xian in China to Constantinople in Turkey." (Muhamad Olimat, China & the Middle East: From Silk Road to Arab Spring)

"It is common to think that the western terminus of the Silk Road was Rome in Italy. The narrator intones as much at the end of each film in the 30-part NTK/CCTV series, and the final scene of that sprawling epic shows the “expedition” arriving at the Roman Coliseum. Indeed Rome must have been an important destination for Chinese silk during the first two or three centuries of the Silk Road (perhaps to ca. 200 CE), but for a much longer time, beginning in the fourth century, the “Rome” to which all roads led in the Mediterranean world was “Eastern Rome” or Constantinople. Even in its long centuries of decline down to its conquest by the Ottoman Turks in 1453, the wealth of the city was legendary, and its location ensured it a role in the trade with the East." (Daniel Waugh, 'Constantinople/Istanbul', The Silk Road)

NB: I am not the stereotypical ERE fanatic on these forums; I've never played them in any PDX game. But when I saw that Silk Road map, something looked odd. My understanding was that the strength of the Silk Road trade had a major effect on Byzantine prosperity or poverty.

EDIT: As well as complaining, I should say that this looks like a really effective overhaul of the Silk Road by the devs. A shiny new feature might have seemed like a better marketing prospect, but they have instead worked on a feature that was functioning but not to the level that they expected. That's a really positive decision.

 

[JP5243]

You know, with all the "I only play in Europe and therefore hate this DLC" nonsense going around, I'd just like to say that, as someone who plays in India, Central Asia, and Persia on a pretty frequent basis, I'm very excited about this DLC.

 

[Silversweeeper]

There is a sea route that goes directly around Sri Lanka.

I was referring to the route north of Sri Lanka, which only is connected to the mystical realm of Cathay through Tibet in the screenshots.

 

[aono]

But when I saw that Silk Road map, something looked odd. My understanding was that the strength of the Silk Road trade had a major effect on Byzantine prosperity or poverty.

As I recall there was some kind of decision about it. Constantinopole, they said, was a big, tech-great and developed province, if you add Silk Road to it it became a lot better.
But I do agree, and every time I mod trade I do add Constantinopole to silk road.

 

[Nyrael]

You know, with all the "I only play in Europe and therefore hate this DLC" nonsense going around, I'd just like to say that, as someone who plays in India, Central Asia, and Persia on a pretty frequent basis, I'm very excited about this DLC.

Actually, there are only two complaining posts here, and both by the same user IIRC. And as usual, such a complainer makes himself the representative of a group of player. I almost always plan in Europe and I'm happy about this DLC.

 

[JP5243]

Actually, there are only two complaining posts here, and both by the same user IIRC. And as usual, such a complainer makes himself the representative of a group of player. I almost always plan in Europe and I'm happy about this DLC.

It's been worse in previous dev diaries, especially in #64. I wasn't referring to this thread alone.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

As I recall there was some kind of decision about it. Constantinopole, they said, was a big, tech-great and developed province, if you add Silk Road to it it became a lot better.
But I do agree, and every time I mod trade I do add Constantinopole to silk road.

I can understand that the ERE can sometimes be an OP blob, so you don't want the capital to be too strong. But I imagine that having everything dependent on one city is supposed to be the special experience of playing as the ERE, and the Silk Road only adds to that. And they could always remove a holding slot or two for balance (although I think the roads ending in Egypt, Syria/Palestine, and Trebizond will already strengthen the ERE's main enemies).

 

[NoobLord]

Is the 10%/25% decrease in trade value relative to the value in the origin or to the actual value in the county, so do 4 occupied counties mean that the trade value downstream is 0% or ~30%?

 

[-Myth-]

I'm wondering - wil the profitability of the silk road contribute to China's own prosperity? If so, can we somehow engineer a very powerful China that would thwart or at the very east delay the Mongol invasion?

 

[Marinaliteyears]

ooooh? I thought in some of the Streams it was said that the Top liege automatically controlled the trade posts now, but this DD implies the change is more about whoever has the Trade post in their Demense gets it.

 

[Fenian Menace]

I'd personally like to see the silk road expanded all the way to France, England, Spain, etc.

That, or at least see a dynamic trade system, as the years go on, the silk road expands, and moves farther west at key dates. So that during the last stages of the game, you have the classic trade routes along the north of france, Denmark, etc. through the English channel, and along Sweden, etc, as well as through all the Mediterranean.

CK2+ has you covered there. The only thing you'll miss is the achievements.

 

[CMDR_HERNE]

Great I don't have to buy Horse Lords for the Silk Road. For me this dlc has already doubled in value

 

[CaptainPolyp]

I can understand that the ERE can sometimes be an OP blob, so you don't want the capital to be too strong. But I imagine that having everything dependent on one city is supposed to be the special experience of playing as the ERE, and the Silk Road only adds to that. And they could always remove a holding slot or two for balance (although I think the roads ending in Egypt, Syria/Palestine, and Trebizond will already strengthen the ERE's main enemies).

I like this actually... I hope seeing the Seljuk Empire pushing into Anatolia

 

[SargonAkkad]

I think it could be nice to add a kind of extensions in the Mediterranean Sea, maybe only manageable by Merchant Republics ( Like Venice or Genoa did in real history)

 

[aono]

I think it could be nice to add a kind of extensions in the Mediterranean Sea, maybe only manageable by Merchant Republics ( Like Venice or Genoa did in real history)

I'm not sure. Are you offering to allow merchant republics to build trade posts in Mediterranean? It's revolutionary idea!
Actually, there is one more thing about Silk Road. In main Europe we have a lot of cities (with markets) and trade republics that build trade posts. But vast majority of Silk Road comes through nomadic and tribal lands without nice targets to raid, so it's a source of gold for nomads and tribal.
That's actually why it's added in nomadic expansion.

 

[Ivan_Noreland]

As the Silk Road is essential in modeling the importance of China, it will also be unlocked by owning Jade Dragon. Owners of Horse Lords will receive all improvements we’re making, of course.

The ability to play as Buddhist should also be considered "essential" in this expansion

 

[raistlin_wizard]

I know about that roads, of course, I even done mods with Amber and Vargarian routes. But was their cash flow on par with Silk Road?
(Also, for cultural impact - compare Silk Road wiki page and, for instance, Via Imperii one. )

The Via Regia passed through my city and I didn't know about it. And we've all heard about the Silk Route, that gives you an idea of how known they are.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

The ability to play as Buddhist should also be considered "essential" in this expansion

We do need a definitive statement from the devs on this (not necessarily in this thread, but at the point of purchase). I understand and support the fact that you need RoI to play Buddhists. But if they market JD as a Tibetan expansion, people are going to be unhappy if they can't play most Tibetans. It's been suggested (I think by @JP5243) that the best way forward would be to make any Monastic Feudal ruler playable. So you could play any Tibetan, but you couldn't play a Buddhist in Khotan or Pali. That seems a reasonable compromise.

 

[PopehatXI]

This gives me great hope we might be able to conquer China. They have also stated that they can't say anything about invading china yet. This means they probably are debating it, or seeing how feasible it is to add the feature.

If people are still going to be able to complete the Khan of Khan achievement it would only make sense. Very excited for the upcoming DLC.

The attitude of China might affect the value of the Silk Road - Plagues, Unrest, Invasions, Civil War and Famines decrease it, while Golden Ages increase it! Sometimes, China might decide to close down the Silk Road and turn inwards, though if you’re powerful enough - militarily or by controlling enough counties on the Silk Road - you just might be able to force them to open right back up...