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CK2 Dev Diary #61: The Dragon Throne

Hello folks!

The Swedish summer vacations are drawing to a close and I’m back and eager to talk some more Crusader Kings! What better way to kick off the end of summer than by revealing the theme of the next expansion? Yes my friends, it’s China! Now, before you get all emotional one way or the other, we’re not actually going to expand the map farther east. We considered doing that, long and hard, but eventually decided on a different approach that would not strain performance and stability beyond reason. As I mentioned in Dev Diary #51, it bothers me that the eastern edge of the map just cuts off in such an unnatural way. Playing in the Orient, you should always feel like you’re in the shadow of the Dragon. It should be an interesting and dynamic region right in the center of the Old World. So, we came up with the idea of adding China as a political entity even though you cannot actually see most of its territory.

The Dragon Throne.png


There is a new screen you can open up, which, if you’re within range of China, allows you to interact with the Emperor in various interesting ways. China can grant many wonderful boons if you’re in the emperor’s good graces, but, depending on the current status and policy of the Dragon Throne, the emperor can also decide you’d better show some respect and become a tributary state. When there is turmoil in China, displaced or fleeing armies can arrive on the map and cause all kinds of trouble. China can even seize and rule actual provinces, but the emperor leaves the governing of such areas to the Governor of the Western Protectorate (or, to be a stickler, the “Protectorate General to Pacify the West”.) Potentially, this on-map part of China can grow enormously powerful, but you should not have to worry too much as long as you enjoy the emperor’s grace…

That’s going to be all for now. I’m sure you have a million questions, but you’ll have to wait for the upcoming dev diaries. :)

Meanwhile, remember to tune in to our CK2 livestreams between 16 to 18:00 CET!
 

Woifee

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I would love other map outside powers to contact. Make them Game Rules.

Atzecs of Course.

But the leader of satanic cult and leader of hel cult could contact satan or hel to start a demon invasion or ragnarok. Demons or giants will raise huge armys and DoW on all rulers independent realms on earth and get some full stack armies. The guy who started this will be tributary of satan and fight on his side.
 

Shaquille1997

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Where was it confirmed you can't attack back?
Well it wasnt mentioned that we are able to attack them, I've seen people reply about that they find it too bad that we cant attack them, but yet China can attack people with invasion and stuff. But the Mongols can conquer China though so thats pretty cool to see (and also historically accurate).
 

christzhou

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Finally China appears in CK though I can't play as the son of heaven....

Well still some question of the new mechanism of dragon throne:

1' Which empire will sit on the dragon throne after 1066 ? The Song Empire ruling the proper China, or the Khitan Empire ( a.k.a Liao Dynasty) which also claim itself as orthodox Chinese Empire ('Chao' or Dynasty) and is more familiar to the central Asia?

2' Which empire will sit on the dragon throne after Song lost it's realm in Northern China after middle 1100s? The Jurchen Empire (a.k.a Jin 'Gold' Dynasty) or still Song?

3' How about the relationship between Mongol Empire and the dragon throne? Will Genghis Khan become EoC, for he is considered as Taizu Emperor of Yuan? And how about the relationship between the Yuan Dynasty and the other parts of Mongol Empire especially the Ilkhanate?

At last, I do not think combining family name and temple name is in sense.....
 

SaphireSeas

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1' Which empire will sit on the dragon throne after 1066 ? The Song Empire ruling the proper China, or the Khitan Empire ( a.k.a Liao Dynasty) which also claim itself as orthodox Chinese Empire ('Chao' or Dynasty) and is more familiar to the central Asia?
Should be the Song. The Liao are on the map already, aren't they?
2' Which empire will sit on the dragon throne after Song lost it's realm in Northern China after middle 1100s? The Jurchen Empire (a.k.a Jin 'Gold' Dynasty) or still Song?
Song probably. They just will have little influence. on the "Western"(Central Asia) World.
The Song were Emperors of most of China(albeit in the south) till the Yuan Dynasty.

Nevertheless, these questions will likely be revealed in upcoming dairies as well as the more interesting mechanics behind the Dragon Throne.
 

_Perun_

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Well, adding China this way seem to suck but I am kind of sure the devs will make it an interesting mechanics, so I am looking forward to see it working. However, if they will not change Aztecs to work the same way it will be inconsistent as, opposing to China, they come from completely different continent (oh, rly? :)). But that would be kind of unprecedented as AFAIK Paradox does not have a policy to rework their dlcs. But if they do that, I could still have some hope to get the second China dlc somewhere in the future, with the map extension and even more funny hats.
 

imvdm

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Should be the Song. The Liao are on the map already, aren't they?

Song probably. They just will have little influence. on the "Western"(Central Asia) World.
The Song were Emperors of most of China(albeit in the south) till the Yuan Dynasty.

Nevertheless, these questions will likely be revealed in upcoming dairies as well as the more interesting mechanics behind the Dragon Throne.

The Tangut western Xia is probably more fitting in both these scenarios, since they are the only ones with a power projection to the West outside of the Kitans until the rise of the Mongols.

Otherwise, the Juchen Jin should probably take over Song as the main Chinese emperor as they rule Zhongyuan, the most vital heart land of China, and the remaining Song is more or less a tributary to the Juchens.
 

Thure

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The Tangut western Xia is probably more fitting in both these scenarios, since they are the only ones with a power projection to the West outside of the Kitans until the rise of the Mongols.

Otherwise, the Juchen Jin should probably take over Song as the main Chinese emperor as they rule Zhongyuan, the most vital heart land of China, and the remaining Song is more or less a tributary to the Juchens.

Wouldn't the Western Xia be largely on the map already?
 

icedt729

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Should be the Song. The Liao are on the map already, aren't they?
The Liao khaganate in Khiva is the state they set up after the Jurchens (Jin) drove them out of Manchuria and north China. Prior to that they ruled in parts of China proper.
 

SacremPyrobolum

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Perhaps instead of Crusader Kings 3 (which not many would buy because for at least 5 years of its life it will just be a stripped down version of 2) Paradox can make a CK like game set in the East, including China, Japan, Korea, the East Indies, Mongolia, what will become Eastern Russia, and whatever you call the region where Burma, Thailand and Vietnam are.

Only problem I would see would be a lack of independent states to keep things interesting.

I think this new expansion is interested and a good compromise (I don't believe CK2's systems could do justice to China) but I just fear that not many people will really fully experience this new mechanic to its fullest extent. India is not very popular and big mods like HPM cut it out almost entirely. I fear it will only be experienced in rather niche playthroughs. Major expansions should change the game for everyone.
 

Thure

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Crusader Kings 3 (which not many would buy because for at least 5 years of its life it will just be a stripped down version of 2) .

EU4 kept most of the DLC/Expansion features of EU3. I'm pretty sure Paradox isn't so stupid to make CK3 the same as size as CK2 at release.
 

KhoiDangDang

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So will it able to see the China's tributaries in the East side (Korea, Ruyku, Daiviet, ...) too. Will it is able to back the different countries in the East to the Dragon Throne like Liao, Xia, ... China isn't the only supper power in the east (Liao Empire, Kmer Empire, ...) can we interact with them. Gunpowder, you know what I mean.
 

EricTheGreat12

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So will it able to see the China's tributaries in the East side (Korea, Ruyku, Daiviet, ...) too. Will it is able to back the different countries in the East to the Dragon Throne like Liao, Xia, ... China isn't the only supper power in the east (Liao Empire, Kmer Empire, ...) can we interact with them. Gunpowder, you know what I mean.

If you haven't realized it yet, this is a China expansion, not an Asian expansion.

How would Gunpowder be implemented?