CK2 Dev Diary #61: The Dragon Throne

[VoodooEconomist]

Im just gonna throw this little idea out there for the devs... instead of a religion based shield on the map. the Chinese protectorate should be like a Nomad Empire tier shield but instead of horses it's actually flanked by Chinese Dragons...just a little cosmetic feel yah know?

Look at the screenshot - the protectorate's shield already differs from regular Indian ones if I'm not mistaken

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

Look at the screenshot - the protectorate's shield already differs from regular Indian ones if I'm not mistaken

yeah but DRAGONS THOUGH...how cool would that be...it would be just as unique as the HRE one

 

[_Perun_]

I just wanted to say I do not like the idea, mainly because the eastern part of the map is still cut off, like with a knife. How about expanding the map WITHOUT adding actual provinces? Just to take the geography into account? Or, you could add only few, supply limit free, provinces (1-5) just to put your armies there and be able to push the Chinese back? Right now the map ends with low supply limit Tarim and Tibet, it would be just terrible to fight huge, attrition-free stacks over there. And if you could just gather your armies next to the Great Wall to force the Emperor to surrender or something, it would be much better, I think.

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

I just wanted to say I do not like the idea, mainly because the eastern part of the map is still cut off, like with a knife. How about expanding the map WITHOUT adding actual provinces? Just to take the geography into account? Or, you could add only few, supply limit free, provinces (1-5) just to put your armies there and be able to push the Chinese back? Right now the map ends with low supply limit Tarim and Tibet, it would be just terrible to fight huge, attrition-free stacks over there. And if you could just gather your armies next to the Great Wall to force the Emperor to surrender or something, it would be much better, I think.

Yeah... cause having hole 10k armies poping up out of nowhere ala Mongols pre Horse Lords would suck so much ass

 

[VolitionNewlove]

i edited the original post before you posted sorry...i gavew one or two ideas there

I'm not really sure I understand how the outcome relates to the Haijin, nor how it relates to the realms that are on the map? Could you please elaborate?

I just wanted to say I do not like the idea, mainly because the eastern part of the map is still cut off, like with a knife. How about expanding the map WITHOUT adding actual provinces? Just to take the geography into account? Or, you could add only few, supply limit free, provinces (1-5) just to put your armies there and be able to push the Chinese back? Right now the map ends with low supply limit Tarim and Tibet, it would be just terrible to fight huge, attrition-free stacks over there. And if you could just gather your armies next to the Great Wall to force the Emperor to surrender or something, it would be much better, I think.

Ideally, they'd get rid of attrition-free doomstacks. They don't really help the main horde invasions a whole lot at this point, since they still have to deal with infamy. There are a few issues to fix, but...

 

[treb]

i think some people have forgoten that the name of this series is CRUSADER KINGS...not Europa Universalis or Old World...whatever...Crusader Kings focuses on events surrounding the Mediterraneum NOT THE FAR EAST OR SUB SAHARAN AFRICA OR JAPAN OR WHAT EVER...im happy with all that we have right now nad i verry much enjoy the fact that we get a pseudo relation with china but seriously people Crusader Kings isn't about youy building the Caliphate of China...get a damn grip you overly privilliged children. Be grateful of what you have and if you want to play as China go play EU4

its almost as if things can evolve or shift their scope to be more than what they were.....

also if the game is an open sandbox dynasty simulator set it the 8th 9th and 11 to 14th centuries its about whatever you make it inducing a Chinese caliphate weather is an RP as a Sunni karluk count of Duhanzong or fully modding in a Muslim China.


lastly i'm the one that paid for my copy of CK2, Why am I not allowed to voice any negative or constructive criticisms on the developers forum specifically designed for that. Get out with "privilege".

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

its almost as if things can evolve or shift their scope to be more than what they were.....

also if the game is an open sandbox dynasty simulator set it the 8th 9th and 11 to 14th centuries its about whatever you make it inducing a Chinese caliphate weather is an RP as a Sunni karluk count of Duhanzong or fully modding in a Muslim China.


lastly i'm the one that paid for my copy of CK2, Why am I not allowed to voice any negative or constructive criticisms on the developers forum specifically designed for that. Get out with "privilege".

There is such a thing as voicing negetive opinions over valid subjects...then there is bitching and moaning about not getting your way...take that into consideration

 

[treb]

There is such a thing as voicing negetive opinions over valid subjects...then there is bitching and moaning about not getting your way...take that into consideration

You have to be wary not to conflate the two. Also that that into consideration.

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

I'm not really sure I understand how the outcome relates to the Haijin, nor how it relates to the realms that are on the map? Could you please elaborate?



Ideally, they'd get rid of attrition-free doomstacks. They don't really help the main horde invasions a whole lot at this point, since they still have to deal with infamy. There are a few issues to fix, but...

well what i meant was...if during the time period when China become isolated, the western protectorate in't paying of the expenses, not bringing in enough profit or is to hard to protect, the Emperor could decide to "abandon" it. also if China went isolationist the silk road could churn out less profit or even be closed...idk...Probably there wouldnt be any more Chinese expeditions. Alos there could be a massive tech debuff since there was always a lot of chinese inventions going to the west

 

[Foreign Alien]

What's become hilariously apparent with Paradox's "middle way" implementation of China is that people who don't want China are STILL not happy with it. Who would of thought right, that people who don't want China in the game still don't want China in the game. Just look at this thread where a quarter of the posts are about prince electors. Same with reddit. If Paradox wanted to do China then just do it. If they couldn't implement China then don't do it at all. Paradox has already screwed over a bunch of fans with India, it's like they think screwing them over less will make things "ok" again.

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

What's become hilariously apparently with Paradox's "middle way" implementation of China is that people who don't want China are STILL not happy with it. Who would of thought right, that people who don't want China in the game still don't want China in the game. Just look at this thread where a quarter of the posts are about prince electors. Same with reddit. If Paradox wanted to do China then just do it. If they couldn't implement China then don't do it at all. Paradox has already screwed over a bunch of fans with India, it's like they think screwing them over less will make things "ok" again.

i dont think ROI was bad...but if you said Paradox screwed over fans with Third Rome....thats another story...

 

[TheDungen]

Historically there were quite a few crusades that were not for Jerusalem, but other regions. Like the Reconquista in Iberia, or the Northern Crusades. Crusades to conquer areas like Egypt are perfectly plausible.

Most crusades outside of the numbered ones are more approximated by holy wars in game. Truth be told crusades is a way to powerful CB, the one for Jerusalem works because that kingdom is small. But really they should give the entire crusade mechanic a look over.

 

[Jia Xu]

Most crusades outside of the numbered ones are more approximated by holy wars in game. Truth be told crusades is a way to powerful CB, the one for Jerusalem works because that kingdom is small. But really they should give the entire crusade mechanic a look over.

I think it's more of an issue that crusades can be targeted at literally any kingdom, regardless of its relevance to the religion in question. The crusade CB should probably be limited to kingdoms that contain holy sites, with perhaps a few exceptions scripted so the Pope can do things like pick on Baltic pagans. The crusade for Persia or the jihad for Hungary will always feel out of place, IMO.

 

[TheDungen]

I think it's more of an issue that crusades can be targeted at literally any kingdom, regardless of its relevance to the religion in question. The crusade CB should probably be limited to kingdoms that contain holy sites, with perhaps a few exceptions scripted so the Pope can do things like pick on Baltic pagans. The crusade for Persia or the jihad for Hungary will always feel out of place, IMO.

They should be for an area too so jerusalem doesn't have to be a kingdom that can't dejure drift and so on.

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

I think it's more of an issue that crusades can be targeted at literally any kingdom, regardless of its relevance to the religion in question. The crusade CB should probably be limited to kingdoms that contain holy sites, with perhaps a few exceptions scripted so the Pope can do things like pick on Baltic pagans. The crusade for Persia or the jihad for Hungary will always feel out of place, IMO.

Actually could we tie Holy Wars not only to Holy Sites but also Holy Artifacts....like a persian Sha has taken the corwn of Thorns or the holy cross...and you get an order from the Pope to get it back

 

[treb]

I think it's more of an issue that crusades can be targeted at literally any kingdom, regardless of its relevance to the religion in question. The crusade CB should probably be limited to kingdoms that contain holy sites, with perhaps a few exceptions scripted so the Pope can do things like pick on Baltic pagans. The crusade for Persia or the jihad for Hungary will always feel out of place, IMO.

My idea for improving crusades/jihads would be to make them ongoing events with objectives. Like a main one (take Jerusalem/convert the balts ext) but with other minor objectives like take this duchy/county, have x number of realms participating, lend x number of men/boats to the war effort. defeat so and so's army and depending on how well it goes the religious leader can expand by adding or deem a objective to far fetched and abandon it. With the important thing being after the peace is called the leader can declare success(or if the main goal wasn't achieved it will be a failure) or decide to expand the scope more and attempt to expand from the foothold into more lands after the treaty expires. during which time its possible for the other side to declare a counter crusade/jihad to retake the land lost.

 

[Mafiabrett]

This offscreen Empire mechanic would've been perfect for the Mongols. We could go back to having 2 giant hordes the Golden Horde and Ilkhanate. Both would almost guarantee conquering their specific dejure Empires. And the new mechanic them being vassals/"western protectorate provinces" of the Mongol Emperor would guarantee they stop fighting each other like they use to. Although.. The oddly shaped map does kindve ruin this idea, considering Karakorum is shown..

I assume theirs also a new mechanic if the new "Representative" countries of these off screen Empires get too big, that they have a very strong likelihood of becoming independent?

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

mmmh.... do you guys think there's a possibility for China-Roman Empire events?
they historicaly had contact between both Empires...if very little...
maybe special diplomacy events that grant unique bonus or even a special trade route...maybe chinese courtiers
Plus China saw Rome as it's only equal back then...at least i think so...i dont remember well

 

[ChaosOnline]

If you go to your account and look at "Ratings You've Received" it'll say who rated what about your comments. And no worries, I was just curious if I was out of line in someway.

Oh. Huh, I never knew that. I guess I'll have to be less cavalier with the ratings buttons in the future. Thanks man!

 

[Andrelvis]

If you go to your account and look at "Ratings You've Received" it'll say who rated what about your comments. And no worries, I was just curious if I was out of line in someway.

So that's how @Wagonlitz always knows!