CK2 Dev Diary #61: The Dragon Throne

[Warial]

i think some people have forgoten that the name of this series is CRUSADER KINGS...not Europa Universalis or Old World...whatever...Crusader Kings focuses on events surrounding the Mediterraneum NOT THE FAR EAST OR SUB SAHARAN AFRICA OR JAPAN OR WHAT EVER...im happy with all that we have right now nad i verry much enjoy the fact that we get a pseudo relation with china but seriously people Crusader Kings isn't about youy building the Caliphate of China...get a damn grip you overly privilliged children. Be grateful of what you have and if you want to play as China go play EU4

Of course, this game is entirely about the crusades and Christian kingdoms and all those DLCs made specifically to improve the crusades show that very well.

 

[Wixelt]

Even the first CK let you play as Orthadox or Islamic characters, neither of which really fit in with the game title.

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

Of course, this game is entirely about the crusades and Christian kingdoms and all those DLCs made specifically to improve the crusades show that very well.

I didnt say that... i said events that suurround the Mediteranean... be it crusades and christian kingdoms, jihads and islamic nations, nomad invasions, the fall of rome, the plagues seriously people. is it really immerseve to have a crusade of to china or what ever?

 

[sreckom92]

i think some people have forgoten that the name of this series is CRUSADER KINGS...not Europa Universalis or Old World...whatever...Crusader Kings focuses on events surrounding the Mediterraneum NOT THE FAR EAST OR SUB SAHARAN AFRICA OR JAPAN OR WHAT EVER...im happy with all that we have right now nad i verry much enjoy the fact that we get a pseudo relation with china but seriously people Crusader Kings isn't about youy building the Caliphate of China...get a damn grip you overly privilliged children. Be grateful of what you have and if you want to play as China go play EU4

I'll have to disagree with you here. Yeah, the name says "crusader kings", but the actual point of the game is dynasties and interactions with other characters. The name is basically just for marketing.

In any case, this quote is all that people need to read again:

We considered doing that, long and hard, but eventually decided on a different approach that would not strain performance and stability beyond reason.

Paradox perhaps wanted to make a full China expansion, but considered the many problems it can bring.
And I applaud this decision. Not because I "hate" China, and not because I prefer to see other parts of the map fleshed out.
Before anything, I want a game that I can actually play properly.
I know that some people claim how the game can be optimized, and how the rest of Asia can be realistically represented, but we have the actual word from the developers how it would cause performance and stability issues.
That should be the end of discussion.

Sure, if Paradox stated how they can't extend the timeline to cover Renaissance, or to push back time back to Justinian era...I'd be disappointed as well, as those are things that I'd personally like.
But to rage on several forums about how my wish is not going to be granted, and to bash on the upcoming content (without actually knowing the full details about that content)....that's ridiculous.
Come on people.

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

I'll have to disagree with you here. Yeah, the name says "crusader kings", but the actual point of the game is dynasties and interactions with other characters. The name is basically just for marketing.

In any case, this quote is all that people need to read again:

Paradox perhaps wanted to make a full China expansion, but considered the many problems it can bring.
And I applaud this decision. Not because I "hate" China, and not because I prefer to see other parts of the map fleshed out.
Before anything, I want a game that I can actually play properly.
I know that some people claim how the game can be optimized, and how the rest of Asia can be realistically represented, but we have the actual word from the developers how it would cause performance and stability issues.
That should be the end of discussion.

Sure, if Paradox stated how they can't extend the timeline to cover Renaissance, or to push back time back to Justinian era...I'd be disappointed as well, as those are things that I'd personally like.
But to rage on several forums about how my wish is not going to be granted, and to bash on the upcoming content (without actually knowing the full details about that content)....that's ridiculous.
Come on people.

100% agree...we all have wishes and desires but we can't be all buthurt when we don't get what we want. i would atleast hope people act civil instead of bashing the game devs for trying to bring something new to an ever growing ever better game...try and appreciate what you have.
and for the love of god dont say they should and that you dont care about reasons or whatever. I'd love to know if even half of the people complaining can do a fithed of what paradox can when it comes to game dev

 

[Thure]

i think some people have forgoten that the name of this series is CRUSADER KINGS...not Europa Universalis or Old World...whatever...Crusader Kings focuses on events surrounding the Mediterraneum NOT THE FAR EAST OR SUB SAHARAN AFRICA OR JAPAN OR WHAT EVER...im happy with all that we have right now nad i verry much enjoy the fact that we get a pseudo relation with china but seriously people Crusader Kings isn't about youy building the Caliphate of China...get a damn grip you overly privilliged children. Be grateful of what you have and if you want to play as China go play EU4

The devs said multible times:
The games were never about the crusades. It's just a name. If they could they would have called the game 'Game of Thrones' but that's impossible because of reasons you should know.

 

[Warial]

I didnt say that... i said events that suurround the Mediteranean... be it crusades and christian kingdoms, jihads and islamic nations, nomad invasions, the fall of rome, the plagues seriously people. is it really immerseve to have a crusade of to china or what ever?

It is not immersive to have crusades for anything beyond Jerusalem. It's not a problem of China being in or not, but game mechanics being too lax.

 

[TheDungen]

At this point, we are going to have to agree to disagree. I highly suggest you do more reading on the history of the Holy Roman Empire.

Funny i was just about to say the same thing.

I don't mind devil worshipers, in fact I thoroughly like the feature. I just dislike that the pagan religions have no monastic orders to counteract them.

Not just pagans not even the zoroastrians have a monastic order.

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

Im just gonna throw this little idea out there for the devs... instead of a religion based shield on the map. the Chinese protectorate should be like a Nomad Empire tier shield but instead of horses it's actually flanked by Chinese Dragons...just a little cosmetic feel yah know?

 

[Andrelvis]

It is not immersive to have crusades for anything beyond Jerusalem. It's not a problem of China being in or not, but game mechanics being too lax.

Historically there were quite a few crusades that were not for Jerusalem, but other regions. Like the Reconquista in Iberia, or the Northern Crusades. Crusades to conquer areas like Egypt are perfectly plausible.

Once Christians take over much of the Eastern Mediterranean, crusades for places in Persia would make sense; and if Persia is taken, so would crusades for Indian areas. Perhaps crusade targets are a bit too random now, but it is still a good thing for crusades for farther off places to be allowed to happen.

 

[Woifee]

Is it possible for the emperor to be a member of a society?

 

[VolitionNewlove]

I didnt say that... i said events that suurround the Mediteranean... be it crusades and christian kingdoms, jihads and islamic nations, nomad invasions, the fall of rome, the plagues seriously people. is it really immerseve to have a crusade of to china or what ever?

So, what you're saying is that Scandinavia, being only perphiary to the Mediterranean and the Crusades, should be removed?

And the fact that you can commonly have a Crusade for Orissa is a problem with the Crusades mechanic, not so much with the addition of new regions (and it's unlikely the mechanics would even allow a Crusade for China at all.)

 

[Djaevlenselv]

Since you've mentioned it's possible to create other off-map titles/entities, would you consider changing the Aztecs in Sunset Invasion to function in this way? It would make more sense for the Aztec emperor to reside in Tenochtitlan and not have any chance of switching culture or religion, while a deputy govers the eastern conquests.

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

So, what you're saying is that Scandinavia, being only perphiary to the Mediterranean and the Crusades, should be removed?

And the fact that you can commonly have a Crusade for Orissa is a problem with the Crusades mechanic, not so much with the addition of new regions (and it's unlikely the mechanics would even allow a Crusade for China at all.)

No i didn't say that because there have been several viking expeditions to the Mediteranean as well as the normans in sicily so yeah i covered my bases when i said Mediteranean

 

[VolitionNewlove]

No i didn't say that because there have been several viking expeditions to the Mediteranean as well as the normans in sicily so yeah i covered my bases when i said Mediteranean

So, if they're entitled to have their original regions included because they conquered areas already featured on the map, then wouldn't the same apply for the Mongols?

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

So, if they're entitled to have their original regions included because they conquered areas already featured on the map, then wouldn't the same apply for the Mongols?

that's why i said nomad invasions

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

I also want to see if the devs take into account China's Isolationism period that started in 1371...maybe disband or release the protectorate if for some reason the chinese economy wants to become ultra mercantilistic

 

[Andrelvis]

i think some people have forgoten that the name of this series is CRUSADER KINGS...not Europa Universalis or Old World...whatever...Crusader Kings focuses on events surrounding the Mediterraneum NOT THE FAR EAST OR SUB SAHARAN AFRICA OR JAPAN OR WHAT EVER...im happy with all that we have right now nad i verry much enjoy the fact that we get a pseudo relation with china but seriously people Crusader Kings isn't about youy building the Caliphate of China...get a damn grip you overly privilliged children. Be grateful of what you have and if you want to play as China go play EU4

That's just a name. Crusader Kings II has been developed to grow beyond that core area, and IMO that was a pretty nice development direction. EU4 doesn't have the character system CK2 has, so it isn't really the same thing.

 

[VolitionNewlove]

Since you've mentioned it's possible to create other off-map titles/entities, would you consider changing the Aztecs in Sunset Invasion to function in this way? It would make more sense for the Aztec emperor to reside in Tenochtitlan and not have any chance of switching culture or religion, while a deputy govers the eastern conquests.

It would be a nice touch to an otherwise minor DLC (one that's kind of fallen into irrelevance, with the modding scene growing over time,) but there might be a slight issue with the interface itself. It's not insurmountable, but it depends on how this additional button works.

I also want to see if the devs take into account China's Isolationism period?

The Haijin? I'm not sure how it would really affect the game, since the game's world is west of China. More late game content would be interesting, but I can't really see how this event would affect the player.

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

It would be a nice touch to an otherwise minor DLC (one that's kind of fallen into irrelevance, with the modding scene growing over time,) but there might be a slight issue with the interface itself. It's not insurmountable, but it depends on how this additional button works.



The Haijin? I'm not sure how it would really affect the game, since the game's world is west of China. More late game content would be interesting, but I can't really see how this event would affect the player.

i edited the original post before you posted sorry...i gavew one or two ideas there