CK2 Dev Diary #61: The Dragon Throne

[aantia]

A separate map would be pointless.
Might as well make a standalone CK2 China game.

I would buy that. I'm actually hoping it will happen someday, although Vicky3 is definitely preferred, if I have to choose.

 

[TheDungen]

Less, I'd wager.

The British Isles at least became somewhat relevant post-Norman invasion.

Not really.
The hundred years war is the only remotely important the english does in this timeframe, and even then the king of england held more power as a french duke than as king of england.

Ok maybe it's a bit exaggerated but I'm a bit bitter about how many provinces and holdings (and slots) England has in ck2 compared to their relevance. They should not be more than at best on par with the low countries.

 

[aantia]

I'm betting this expansion will add playable non-dynastic countries, like theocracies and (this is what I'm basing this on) the Chinese Western Protectorate.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

What's the point of playing after you conquered the world?

I never got the "finish the game in Charlemagne" achievement and I'm doing it in this playthrough.

Entertaining myself by putting as many dynasty members into titles as I can.

 

[Yevheniya]

This is the most half-assed thing I've ever seen.

I'd say it's disappointing, and I'm being 100% honest here, but I had no expectations to begin with. There isn't a good reason that China can't be in the game and that's just a fact. We'll hear a little bit here and there about how the engine can't support the provinces or how there's some hardcoded problems with incorporating this or that aspect of the Asian systems, but what it ultimately comes down to is effort and choice. There are Ways to make a grand strategy game with Europe and China in it (Paradox has made a few games, I believe, that include both Europe and China), and Paradox does not want CK2 to be that game. Since there are some fans, however, who see the advantage in having a game span all across Eurasia, Paradox wanted to pander to them and... this is what they came up with.

Almost disappointing, but just to be expected.

 

[mechl]

They are talking about turmoil in the dev diary, so they will probably be some events. Though I doubt we will have the tripartite Song-(Liao)Jin-Xia situation represented.

I wonder who will be the Emperor in post Tang dates (after 907). The Song Dynasty was weak and paid tribute to the Khitan lead Liao Dynasty along with Korea and Western Xia paid tribute to no one. Both Xia and Liao can be represented on the CK2 map but not the Song. The Liao then fled to Central Asia once the Jurchen lead Jin Dynasty rose to power in the 12th century (which controlled no part of the CK2 map). I rarely play vanilla so I'm not sure if this is represented in game but I know HIP shows Qara Khitai in Central Asia.

After 1279 it'd be the Mongol lead Yuan Dynasty.

 

[Susanna]

Nice job of threading the needle between the desire for having China in the game, and the desire for the game to still be playable. I shall be watching this with interest.

 

[spendabuck]

In mods, maybe.

As DLC, I highly doubt it. They had nowhere near the same impact on the worldmap as China did at that time, not to mention, they're considerably further away.

I definitely agree in the case of Japan, but SEA, as far as I'm aware, interacted fairly heavily with India and the Middle East due to trade, resulting in the spread of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam there, for example. The Chola dynasty in southern India even managed to colonize parts of Indonesia. If the new mechanics can support off map regions without a central ruler (of course there are the Srivijaya and Majapahit, but I'm talking about the whole region), I think that SEA would be justifiable in the DLC or at least a mod.

 

[Yevheniya]

This thread is full of people congratulating Paradox for doing nothing. Why?

 

[Warial]

I wonder who will be the Emperor in post Tang dates (after 907). The Song Dynasty was weak and paid tribute to the Khitan lead Liao Dynasty along with Korea and Western Xia paid tribute to no one. Both Xia and Liao can be represented on the CK2 map but not the Song. The Liao then fled to Central Asia once the Jurchen lead Jin Dynasty rose to power in the 12th century (which controlled no part of the CK2 map). I rarely play vanilla so I'm not sure if this is represented in game but I know HIP shows Qara Khitai in Central Asia.

After 1279 it'd be the Mongol lead Yuan Dynasty.

Xia did sometime pay tribute to Liao like for example during Yizong's reign. My guess they will have Song portrayed by this mechanic, as the "true" China.

 

[Texas_Jack]

There isn't a good reason that China can't be in the game and that's just a fact.

Did you play the game before India was added? It TANKED performance, adding China would just slow this game down even more. FACT.

 

[spendabuck]

Did you play the game before India was added? It TANKED performance, adding China would just slow this game down even more. FACT.

I like the direction Paradox is taking, so I'm not suggesting that China be added to the map, but I don't think that it would tank performance too much. Granted, I didn't start playing the game until well after RoI was released, so I don't know how much performance decreased, but there's a mod called Tianxia which adds all of East Asia to the game and I can hardly tell a difference in performance between that and vanilla.

 

[JP5243]

What sort of mechanics should the HRE of this period have that would be unique to them?

The Prince-Electors are the first thing that comes to mind, as the current HRE mechanics barely even resemble the historical HRE. Just working with the Prince-Electors, you could add a lot of events and decisions, such as issuing Imperial Bulls, or having an actual Imperial election. You could also potentially add the Diet, Imperial Bans, and better flavour for Anti-Popes and Investiture disputes. Playable Imperial Cities/Inland Republics would also be possible to be included in this.

Imo, HRE should be its own government type, with a unique succession system, art, and interface. If Paradox made this, I would, for the first time ever, buy a major DLC when it wasn't on sale. I'd purchase it faster than you could say Reichsstädtekollegium.

On a side note, I'm hoping Paradox fixes CKII's horribly broken justice system in the next update.

 

[Thure]

The Prince-Electors are the first thing that comes to mind, as the current HRE mechanics barely even resemble the historical HRE. Just working with the Prince-Electors, you could add a lot of events and decisions, such as issuing Imperial Bulls, or having an actual Imperial election. You could also potentially add the Diet, Imperial Bans, and better flavour for Anti-Popes and Investiture disputes. Playable Imperial Cities/Inland Republics would also be possible to be included in this.

Imo, HRE should be its own government type, with a unique succession system, art, and interface. If Paradox made this, I would, for the first time ever, buy a major DLC when it wasn't on sale. I'd purchase it faster than you could say Reichsstädtekollegium.

On a side note, I'm hoping Paradox fixes CKII's horribly broken justice system in the next update.

You know the Prince-Electors only come into play after the Golden Bull of 1356? After the last start date? People should stop confusing the EU era HRE with the medieval one. In the middle ages the HRE was more centralised than France. This only changed during the late middle ages.

 

[Crenickator]

G.Projector is nice if you don't have access to a UI-based GIS tool like ArcGIS or GlobalMapper. For doing simple rotations and cropping to a preferred size you can also use Hugin, which can lead to results like this, showing the entire target area of the "Old World" if there ever is a movement to accurate projections.

Wow.

 

[sreckom92]

This thread is full of people congratulating Paradox for doing nothing. Why?

Anything other than entire Eurasia is nothing?
Maybe...some people like this feature?

 

[JP5243]

You know the Prince-Electors only come into play after the Golden Bull of 1356? After the last start date? People should stop confusing the EU era HRE with the medieval one. In the middle ages the HRE was more centralised than France. This only changed during the late middle ages.

No, the number and composition of the Prince-Electors was only formalized after the Golden Bull of 1356. The Kurfürst were first mentioned in the 12th Century, and Pope Urban IV describes the election of the Reich as being held according to "immemorial custom". Historically, the Electors were the Archbishops of Koln, Trier, and Mainz, along with a respresentive of each of the "four nations" of Germany: the Franks, the Saxons, the Bavarians, and the Swabians. This of course, shifted over time, but the principles have been there since Otto's election as Emperor by the Saxon Dukes.

 

[Foreign Alien]

What's hilarious about this expansion is that even the largest posts on reddit and the forums aren't even about the China aspect it brings. People are writing text walls about bringing features to HRE or Byzantines. What is even the point of this expansion?

 

[Wudadi]

History of China (2000 BCE ~ 1945 CE)

Mid and Late Tang

Northern Song and Liao Dynasties

PDS can use these videos as a reference

 

[sreckom92]

What is even the point of this expansion?

We don't know what is the point of this expansion, since we do not know all the features it brings.