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CK2 Dev Diary #53: Time to pay Tribute

Greetings!

Today I’d like to talk to you about a part of the game that we’ve chosen to overhaul and improve - the Tributary system! Introduced in Horse Lords, the ‘Make Tributary’ CB allowed you to go to war with a neighboring realm to make them pay you 40% of their income until the death of your current character. It was quite a simple system that didn’t always fit the intended purpose very well, so we decided to make it more advanced and capable of diverse use!

Tributaries can now come in a lot of flavors, as they are entirely definable in a new ‘tributary_types’ file. You define a name and then you set the parameters for how you would like the Tributary to work. You are able to customize a lot of things, for example; the various tribute percentages, if the Tributary should be set free on death or if the Suzerain must defend the Tributary in wars.

With this new system we have lots of ideas on where we could add new types of Tributaries, i.e. Permanent Tributaries or Nomad Tributaries. If you have any ideas for a type of Tributary (and when it would make sense to have it/when to gain access to the CB) feel free to post a suggestion in this thread!

To demonstrate, here’s the script for an example Tributary type:

Code:
example = {                                # name used for that type of tributary. "default" is the standard type, replacing the old tributaries, and "none" is reserved and should not be used
    tributary_name = TRIBUTARY_DEFAULT_NAME        # localization string used for tributaries of that type (ie "Tributary" for the default type, "Permanent Tributary" for the Permanent type, etc)
    tributary_plural = TRIBUTARY_DEFAULT_PLURAL    # localization string used for tributaries of that type, when there is more than one (ie "Tributaries" for the default type, "Permanent Tributaries" for the Permanent type, etc)
    suzerain_name = SUZERAIN_DEFAULT_NAME        # localization string used for suzerains of that tributary type (ie "Suzerain" for the default type, "Permanent Suzerain" for the Permanent type, etc)
    tribute_name = TRIBUTARY_DEFAULT_TRIBUTE    # localization string used for "paying $TRIBUTE$" for that tributary type
    breaks_at_suzerain_death = yes        # yes/no value determining if the tributary relationship is dissolved when the suzerain dies.
    breaks_at_tributary_death = no         # yes/no value determining if the tributary relationship is dissolved when the tributary dies
    suzerain_must_defend = no             # yes/no value determining if the suzerain is forced to accept calls to arms from tributary in defensive wars (wars were the tributary is the defender)
                                        # if they decline anyway, they will lose the tributary and an amount of prestige defined in defines.lua, called SUZERAIN_DEFENDER_CALL_DECLINE_COST
    tributary_can_be_summoned = yes     # yes/no value determining if the suzerain can calls the tributaries to war (as tribal vassals / allies)   
    tributary_must_defend = yes            # yes/no value determining if the tributaries are forced to accept defensive calls to arms
    tributaries_can_infight = yes        # yes/no value determining if the tributaries can fight against each others, if both tributaries are of the same type
                                        # if tributaries are of different types, they will always be allowed to fight each other, even if they have the same suzerain
    suzerain_can_join_infighting = yes    # yes/no value determining if the suzerain can join a tributary in a war against another
    tributaries_can_unite = no             # yes/no value determining if, when trying to break, the tributaries can band together against the suzerain, à la major revolt
    breaks_on_realm_change=yes            # yes/no value determining if the tributary relationship is dissolved when the tributary's titles change realms
    cbs_against_suzerain = {            # list of CBs tributaries can use against their suzerain
        free_tributary_cb
    }
    income_tribute_percentage = {        # how much of their monthly income the tributary must pay to their suzerain.
                                        # THIS IS ONLY EVALUATED WHEN THE TRIBUTARY RELATIONSHIP IS FORMED
                                        # and is not reevaluated afterwards
                                        # this value is an MTTH and should compute a value between 0 and 1, inclusive
                                        # in case the total is less than 0, it will be counted as 0
                                        # in case the total is more than 1, it will be counted as 1
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain
        value = 0.10
        additive_modifier = {
            value = 0.05
            FROM = {
                is_merchant_republic = yes
            }
        }
    }
    reinforce_tribute_percentage = {    # How much of the tributary's reinforcement rate will go to the suzerain's instead.
                                        # THIS IS ONLY EVALUATED WHEN THE TRIBUTARY RELATIONSHIP IS FORMED
                                        # and is not reevaluated afterwards
                                        # this value is an MTTH and should compute a value between 0 and 1, inclusive
                                        # in case the total is less than 0, it will be counted as 0
                                        # in case the total is more than 1, it will be counted as 1
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain

                                        # this is applied by subtracting the percentage, as is, from the tributary's reinforcement rate
                                        # and adding a scaled (based on demesne size= version of the percentage to the suzerain
                                        # So, for example, the tributary loses 10% of reinforcement rate, but the suzerain gains 10% * (tributary's demesne size) / (suzerain's demesne size)
        value = 0.10
        additive_modifier = {
            value = 0.05
            FROM = {
                is_merchant_republic = yes
            }
        }
    }
    prestige_to_suzerain = {            # how much of prestige the suzerain gains every month per tributary (of that type) he holds
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the suzerain's prestige every month.
                                        # current scope is the suzerain, FROM is the tributary
        value = 0
    }
    prestige_to_tributary = {            # how much prestige the tributary gains every month
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the tributary's prestige every month.
                                        # to make them lose prestige, return a negative value
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain
        value = 0
    }
    piety_to_suzerain = {                # how much of piety the suzerain gains every month per tributary (of that type) he holds
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the suzerain's piety every month.
                                        # current scope is the suzerain, FROM is the tributary
        value = 0
    }
    piety_to_tributary = {                # how much of piety a tributary gains every month
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the tributary's piety every month.
                                        # to make them lose piety, return a negative value
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain
        value = 0
    }
}

I’d also like to expand upon something we touched upon in the last DD; the new ‘unjust conquest’ CB (now renamed to Border Dispute). When declaring a Border Dispute over a County you first and foremost have to pay an upfront cost of Piety and Gold scaled to your tier (in the case of Pagans, prestige is used), but you also take an opinion hit from both your religious head (if you have one) as well as any landed characters of the targeted religious group in both your realm and the one you’re attacking. Note that these opinion modifiers stack! This makes the border Dispute CB dangerous to use on characters of your own religion, especially if you have a religious head capable of excommunicating you. You will primarily want to use this CB to expand early on when drawing the ire of your co-religionists is worth the risk, or against characters not of your religion.

Border_dispute_tooltip.png

Example is of an Irish Count wanting to conquer another Irish Count.


Note that Muslims, Nomads and in certain cases Pagans do not have access to this CB, as their current CB’s are already superior. It is also possible to turn the CB off entirely by using Game Rules.
Border_dispute_GR.png


Note that we’ve also decided to leave Fabricate Claim as it is right now.
 
He's not giving you a hard time because you're complaining, but because you are being overly dramatic about it.

Because they haven't talked about it yet, they clearly don't care? Because they are skipping a dev diary because they're on holiday, they don't care? That's them treating us like garbage? You sound like an entitled child. Calm down.

Unless you haven't noticed, the devs always respond to player issues. They even created an entire new (moddable!) system so that people can custom tailor the experience to their own styles (I am referring to the game rules, of course). I am confident they will address the rampant secret religious societies problems and add some new societies to increase character choices, just as they have made a good effort to fix many other issues.
"devs always respond to player issues"

Let's be real here
 
For tributaries I would really like the Baqt type between Egypt and Nubia.It would basically a tributary without the military aspect. Just a Non Agression pact but no protection of each other. So 'Money for Non Agression'
This is essentially what Khazaria did with most of their tributaries, mainly the Slavs and Finno-Ugrians. Some tributaries, namely the Alans and Magyars, are known to have acted as allies to them on occasion.
 
"devs always respond to player issues"

Let's be real here

They don't always respond immediately, but they get to it. Secret Religious Societies are being addressed in the next patch. I for one am glad they are taking their time to figure out the best way to handle it, rather than rushing to push out a hasty fix that would probably just make things worse.
 
They don't always respond immediately, but they get to it. Secret Religious Societies are being addressed in the next patch. I for one am glad they are taking their time to figure out the best way to handle it, rather than rushing to push out a hasty fix that would probably just make things worse.
Marriage interface has always been horrible
 
Why not an option to make the attacker your tributary in a successful defensive, as an alternative to accepting immediate reparations?
 
Hi, sorry, not very fluent in computer-stuff ... where do I find this file, or is there some interface I overlooked? Thanks in advance for any kind of help!
You'd have to break into Paradox offices in Stockholm ;) This is not released yet, it's an announcement of upcoming features.
 
How about tributaries that only need to pay a high amount of gold for a fixed amount of time (say 30 years), but they are not subject to the attacker (they can make alliances, and they don't need to join the wars of the attacker). The tributaries also have the option to stop paying this gold (lack of funds could also cancel the tribute automatically), and this gives the receiver of the tribute a casus belli for the conquest of the tributaries land. If this casus belli seems to harsh, then cancelling the tribute could lead to an array of casus belli:

- Single county conquest. The county to be conquered is the selection of the attacker, you could maybe impose that it need to border the attackers realm.

- Force payment (1-2 years worth of tribute and resumes paying regular tribute).

- Depose monarch. If someone in your court has a claim on the main title of the tributary (even a weak claim), you can depose the monarch and install your courtier with the claim. You don't gain the land, but the new ruler resumes paying tribute to you.

This would definitely make tributaries much more interesting.
You can also keep the other form of tributaries, where the tributary becomes a subject of the attacker, and must join all wars, although this type of tributaries would pay a substantially smaller amount of gold. So when you attack for tributaries, you can select either to make the defendant your subject, or make him pay you gold.
 
I like the potential of tribute modding.

This might even spark a new attempt at a "civil administration" government mod loosely modeled on Claudius' permanent civil bureaucracy that played a central role in the Principate period. Representing outer provinces and rotating postings became quite a mess. Plus Foederati, I'm even thinking of an event where a bordering neighbor is losing a war and can appeal to be settled inside your borders as a certain kind of tributary, you get levy reinforcements, their gratitude, etc but balanced by negatives from whoever was posted to that province, other modifiers across your kingdom depending on culture group, etc.

Also, we can do similar to EU4 Daimyo/Shogunate (not a request for china expansion, nooooo :9).
 
I’d also like to expand upon something we touched upon in the last DD; the new ‘unjust conquest’ CB (now renamed to Border Dispute). When declaring a Border Dispute over a County you first and foremost have to pay an upfront cost of Piety and Gold scaled to your tier (in the case of Pagans, prestige is used), but you also take an opinion hit from both your religious head (if you have one) as well as any landed characters of the targeted religious group in both your realm and the one you’re attacking. Note that these opinion modifiers stack! This makes the border Dispute CB dangerous to use on characters of your own religion, especially if you have a religious head capable of excommunicating you. You will primarily want to use this CB to expand early on when drawing the ire of your co-religionists is worth the risk, or against characters not of your religion.

View attachment 270346
Example is of an Irish Count wanting to conquer another Irish Count.

So if I buy the expansion, I can finally play a Jain Emperor of India without the game getting boring? Not only do I get Tibet and China to interact with, I also get a Casus belli that I can use against the Persian (or Arabian) Empire that usually consolidates itself in the west. If I just start one war every 10 years, the opinion penalty would just cancel out with the bonus from being Jain; this should be sufficient to expand into the kingdom of Khiva, and then I should have access to the "liberate duchy from nomad" casus belli anyway.

This also gives me an idea for another kind of tributary, but probably that can't be implemented even with the reworked tributary system.