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CK2 Dev Diary #50: A Reason for War

Greetings!

The weather is slowly recovering from the chaotic mixture of snow/rain/hail/sun that has plagued the Swedish April and work is starting on the next, yet undisclosed, expansion! The next expansion is going to have a specific theme which most features will be focused around (we can unfortunately not go into any detail in this DD), though we also want to add some features that can be of use regardless of who or where you choose to play. One of these is planned to be a ‘Casus Belli Expansion’, where we want to add new and oft-requested CBs to the game. The Focus is going to be on CBs that enhance the early and late game (as well as a few more roleplay-focused CBs). While this is by no means a final list, it’s what we’ve made so far:


Forced Vassalization
This is a CB that can be used against neighboring realms to force them to become your vassal. To avoid making it too powerful it’s quite heavily limited, only realms that are of a lower tier, under 30 realm size and where the ruler is of either your culture group or religion are valid targets. It also has a direct cost (prestige). For example; this can allow England to, with time, extend ‘protection’ to the smaller Welsh and Irish realms.


De Jure Duchy Claim
This CB was added to try to avoid situations where massive realms would fight over one single county, essentially destroying their armies for near no gain. Players often think these types of wars aren’t worth fighting, and do not usually declare them themselves - instead they turn to Holy Wars or invite duchy claimants to expand in a more meaningful way. This CB provides interesting opportunity for conquest at the point where you form your first Kingdom or Empire. Any vassals present in conquered lands are preserved, and this CB also comes with a prestige cost.


Ducal County Conquest
At the very start of a game you might be stuck waiting for fabricated claims a very, very long time if you’re unlucky. This CB is available to Count and Duke tier characters, and allows you to go to war over any County that are part of a Duchy you hold land in, as long as the Duchy has no holder. The CB has a cost of prestige and gold, making it similar to a fabricated claim (as that’s essentially what it is). As an example, this gives count-tier characters in Ireland and the HRE an alternate way to claim a Duke-tier title, presuming that you can save up enough prestige and money.


Great Conquest
Unless you are playing as a Muslim, Nomad or Tribal-cultured ruler (who have access to invasions) you have no real way to expand in a meaningful way when you are playing as the ruler of a very large realm. While we still want expansion to be difficult, we also want to give players more static opportunities to expand. This CB is available to very powerful realms (at least 200 realm size) and can be used to claim an entire Kingdom from another character. Though the catch is that you have to fight someone that is as strong or stronger than you are, and using the CB itself costs a massive amount of prestige and piety.


Free Hostages
A long-requested CB, this allows you to go to war against a character in order to free any kidnapped concubines or wives, and release certain characters from prison (i.e. friends and dynastants). Rescued characters will, most often, be moved back to your court. It will also take hostages in turn, imprisoning a random close member of the target’s family!

It’s currently not possible to attack anyone who holds a close dynastic member in their prison (i.e. your child), is this something you’d like to see changed specifically for use with this CB? Otherwise it'll be of use primarily for freeing concubines (something that has been requested for a long time!).


Note that these CBs are by no means finished, and are currently being tested internally. Feel free to comment and feedback on them though, and also feel free to tell us what CBs you would like to see added!
 
With the exception of tribals, there was strict legalese about keeping hostages. Especially if they were captured in a war. Hostageship was a contract that was agreed to and validated by both parties: the hostage stays safe, as long as their kin do not attack. If their kin attacks, the hostage-keeper is legally obligated to execute the hostage.

I don't remember who, but historically there were several cases where a young child had been taken as a hostage. And the ruler who was holding them grew fond of them, and raised them like a foster child. But then the hostage contract was broken, and they had no choice but to execute the hostage.

The whole point to taking hostages (instead of executing them on capture) is to stop their kin from attacking you. Making it into a casus belli is completely ass-backwards.

However, if a hostage dies, that should be a valid casus belli.

I think the idea behind this CB is not to rescue "close kin", but concubines and councilors and the like. They've already said this CB *cannot* be used to rescue close kin.
 
I don't like most of these CBs to be blunt. I feel they are not going to be well balanced and make the game a conquest map painter.

Why make mechanics that is easier to use and less troubling than using claimant to expand your realm, which is the whole point of the game? Now I probably won't even bother to use marriages and claims if I have those handy CBs available.

I feel the game will only get easier despite the fact it is already an easy game.
 
I don't like most of these CBs to be blunt. I feel they are not going to be well balanced and make the game a conquest map painter.

Why make mechanics that is easier to use and less troubling than using claimant to expand your realm, which is the whole point of the game? Now I probably won't even bother to use marriages and claims if I have those handy CBs available.

I feel the game will only get easier despite the fact it is already an easy game.
I think these more exist for situations where there simply isn't another way to expand. Like at the game start where claimants don't exist or when you can't seem to get a claim formed.
 
I think these more exist for situations where there simply isn't another way to expand. Like at the game start where claimants don't exist or when you can't seem to get a claim formed.

I fear even in such a case this would kill the playstyle of using marriages to expand at a count level because it would become too tedious compared to using the newly added CB. If you can jump-skip count level gameplay by an early conquest with the new CB and become a duke relatively quickly, it only serves to remove the alternative gameplay where you would use marriages to increase your influence and raise your rank to become a duke.

If people find waiting for CB forgery/using marriages at count level too boring they should really just start off as a duke instead of asking for a CB to shorten the steps.

With this change your peer counts won't be your competitions/potential allies/potential enemies anymore, they will just become a stepping stone you conquer and vassalize in first few years.

I get your point for some of the new CBs but I really do not like other new CBs, especailly the conquest CB for a count.
 
I fear even in such a case this would kill the playstyle of using marriages to expand at a count level because it would become too tedious compared to using the newly added CB. If you can jump-skip count level gameplay by an early conquest with the new CB and become a duke relatively quickly, it only serves to remove the alternative gameplay where you would use marriages to increase your influence and raise your rank to become a duke.

If people find waiting for CB forgery/using marriages at count level too boring they should really just start off as a duke instead of asking for a CB to shorten the steps.

With this change your peer counts won't be your competitions/potential allies/potential enemies anymore, they will just become a stepping stone you conquer and vassalize in first few years.

I get your point for some of the new CBs but I really do not like other new CBs, especailly the conquest CB for a count.
Well in the case of marriages, it isn't all that hard to luck into becoming a king or emperor shortly after the game starts as a Catholic count or just orchestrate things to turn out that way. The new CBs certainly don't let you get that big that quickly. Inheritance, fabricating claims, or getting favors from the pope will still be the more efficient path in pretty much all cases when you're small and clever players will probably ignore the new CBs except for actual large scale wars that they currently can't do with the system or when no other option is available.
 
Is Ducal County Conquest broken? Or do I misunderstand what "has no holder" means? I am very good friends with my overlord the Duke, and I just did a Ducal Conquest on the county next door. ...?
 
Is Ducal County Conquest broken? Or do I misunderstand what "has no holder" means? I am very good friends with my overlord the Duke, and I just did a Ducal Conquest on the county next door. ...?

Is there a CB to free a concubine, like your former wife, your daughter e.g. ..?

Why are people reviving an old thread? This is really uneccesary
 
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