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CK2 Dev Diary #40: Visiting the Cartographer

Greetings everyone!

Today I’m here to talk about one of my favorite parts of our games (a very important one too) and something I’ve been working on. I’m going to talk about the map.

Looking at the work @Trin Tragula does for the map on EU4, I started thinking. Why don’t we do something similar to CK2? So I went looking at the map for various possible improvements. I have not added anything new in terms of provinces or areas. Instead, I wanted to focus on improving the existing map and give it some needed polish.

The CK2 map is not perfect, so there are a quite a few places to look at. But I wanted to start with the terrain and topology. As there several places on the map that, frankly, look out of place. As such, I swooped the map of the most hideous offenders. Several lakes and most major rivers are now much smoother, avoiding ugly and sharp edges. The Ural Mountains are now mostly impassable.

Below you can see a few examples.

Ural mountains:
ck2_ural_mountains.jpg


Lake Baikal, old and new:
ck2_baikal_old.png

ck2_baikal_new.png


The Ganges, old and new:
ck2_ganges_old.png

ck2_ganges_new.png



I also took this opportunity to make some smaller de jure adjustments (I know that not everyone will agree with me on these). These are done for gameplay reasons and considerations. The largest change will be for the kingdom of Cumania. Which I broke off slightly by giving the duchies of Itil and Sarkel to Khazaria, along with Crimea and Cherson (so Taurica no longer holds any de jure land).

A small shift in the kingdoms of the ERE. Greece is a very large kingdom, so I made it slightly smaller by moving Samos and Cibyrrhaeot to Anatolia, and in turn, made Anatolia stay close to the same size by making the duchies of Trebizond and Armeniacon de jure to the kingdom of Trebizond.

ck2_updated_de_jure.png



Last, and definitely not least. Let’s take a look at Hungary and the Danube. The first thing I did was to redraw parts of the Danube to make it more accurate (as we all know, the old Danube was not quite where it was supposed to be). It now flows much closer to its actual location. The counties along the river have been adjusted accordingly. Pecs, for example, is now located on the correct side of it. The rest of Hungary has also been adjusted so that the kingdom is placed within the Carpathians.

Instead of taking my word for it, you can see for yourself in the screenshot below, in which you can see the updated coast of Croatia as well.

ck2_danube_new.png


ck2_danube_old.png


Does this make the map perfect? No. But I do think it’s a step in the right direction and an improvement over the previous one.

Let me know what you think!

- The Ural mountains are now impassable
- Removed the duplicate island of Kolguyev, in the Barents Sea
- The most northern part of the Onega is now properly filled with water
- The mountains in southern Abyssinia no longer stretches onto the frame of the map
- Fixed an issue in the lower part of the river Don, where the river bed would go above water level
- Removed a bunch of trees that were placed in major rivers
- The terrain around lake Balkhash has been smoothed, to avoid sharp/rough edges
- The terrain around lake Baikal has also been smoothed, no longer will the steep cliffs surround the lake
- The Indus and the Ganges have both been cleaned up:
- The terrain now matches the actual river
- Smaller rivers no longer flow so far into the major rivers
- The borders of the rivers has been made smoother to avoid sharp/rough edges
- The Danube has been redrawn, to better represent its actual location (!)
- The county of Constantinople is now only located on the western side of the Bosphorus, merging the eastern side into the county of Nikaea, connected with a strait
- The duchies of Samos and Cibyrrhaeot are now de jure part of the kingdom of Anatolia, rather than Greece
- The duchies of Trebizond and Armeniacon is now de jure part of the kingdom of Trebizond, rather than Anatolia
- Removed the kingdom of Taurica
- The duchy of Crimea is now de jure kingdom of Khazaria
- The duchy of Cherson is now de jure kingdom of Khazaria
- The coastal counties of Croatia and Serbia have been adjusted and moved slightly to better represent their actual locations
- The eastern counties of Hungary and the surrounding area has been moved and adjusted in order to properly place the kingdom within the Carpathian mountains
- Changed the name of b_mirabel to "Majdal Yaba"
- b_mirabel will be named "Mirabel" if ruled by most European cultures
- b_mirabel will be named "Antipatris" if ruled by Byzantine cultures
- The county of Tobruk is now only located along the coast
- Moved the northern part of c_dalarna to c_herjedalen
- Moved k_venice to de jure e_italy
 
Yeah, I always disliked the fact that the ERE would go and conquer Venice so soon whenever you start a game. This should keep them protected from that at least.
Venice actually survives pretty often in my games (four long-runners now and only in the Slovensky achievement run did they get Byzzified). Since de jure supposedly represents traditional geocultural borders, maybe this should be a difference between start dates, like, they're considered de jure ERE at the Charlie date but move to Italia a couple bookmarks later (by TOG or Stamford Bridge) as the Greeks and Lombards wane and the Italians rise.

Also, wondering if any thought has been given to removing player culture requirements to create certain kingdoms like Saxony and Pannonia/Hungary at the early dates, since the dukes can eat into your vassal limit if you're map-painting. (I had to drift Saxony out of existence with viceroyal kingdoms in Germany and Frisia when playing as Ireland.)
 
Damn do people still play vanilla? I mean no offense but that Wallachia and Moldova looks hideous. I'm sorry paradox but that's the truth, after 5 years the map still looks like it was drawn on a napkin. Why is it to hard to integrate HIP into your game?

Edit: you can down vote me as much as you like but that's the truth and that's also the mentality that keeps the game down, from achieving its true potential, so keep down voting fanboys.
 
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... no offense but that Wallachia and Moldova looks hideous....

Being a bit more elaborate/detailed could help. ;)
No, i didn't downvote your post...

Do you refer to de-jure structure or actual map (provinces, rivers, mountains, stuff) ?
 
Love most of these changes, I'm not too sure about this however:

- Moved k_venice to de jure e_italy

I understand the gameplay reasons, but it seems a cheap way out of what should be a gameplay fix. Honestly k_venice shouldn't just be de jure ERE in the early start dates but de facto. I can see it being k_italy for later starts though.
 
Dangit. Sort of. I mean, map upgrades are good and all, but...

I'm guessing this pretty much obviates any chance of the next patch being save-compatible (and as I'm still 300 years from the end of my game)...

Hmm. Guess I'll have to experiment with the free patch (and if it isn't - as i'm expecting, but dang it I wanted those UI upgrades!) I'll save M&M for another time, I think. No sense getting it on release if I'm probably a hundred-odd hours away from being able to use it (well, probably more like 300, since the true endgame of my current game is EUIV).

Got away with it for Reaper's; I was holding out I might with M&M too.
 
Damn do people still play vanilla? I mean no offense but that Wallachia and Moldova looks hideous. I'm sorry paradox but that's the truth, after 5 years the map still looks like it was drawn on a napkin. Why is it to hard to integrate HIP into your game?

Edit: you can down vote me as much as you like but that's the truth and that's also the mentality that keeps the game down, from achieving its true potential, so keep down voting fanboys.
How very constructive, I must say!
You've given us so much information upon which we can base what exactly is wrong!

Granted, I just happen to know what the problem is:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...carpathians-geographically-bad-danube.772178/

The first part of the thread covers it.
 
Being a bit more elaborate/detailed could help. ;)
No, i didn't downvote your post...

Do you refer to de-jure structure or actual map (provinces, rivers, mountains, stuff) ?
I prefer everything over the original vanilla, also I still stand by my word the fanboys on this forum(ck one not the rest) are just bad and are keeping the game down, For example some people complained in Eu4 about Memel (square memel) and suggested that the dev team look at certain mods and improve it, while here people get downvoted into oblivion if they try to do that.

Also how Moldova looks irl
1483.jpg

Here is a more general one
Harta_Vlad_tepes.jpg

And this is how it looks in game
ck2_danube_new.png
 
I prefer everything over the original vanilla, also I still stand by my word the fanboys on this forum(ck one not the rest) are just bad and are keeping the game down, For example some people complained in Eu4 about Memel (square memel) and suggested that the dev team look at certain mods and improve it, while here people get downvoted into oblivion if they try to do that.

Also how Moldova looks irl and how it looks in game
1483.jpg

ck2_danube_new.png
You couldn't say that from the start, huh? Of course, you had to be hostile and make a fuss like a 3-year-old child.

And of course you like everything more than vanilla - especially when it reinforces your idea of a pure Latin Romanian culture. :)
 
Also how Moldova looks irl and how it looks in game...

Make Moldova great again ?
laugh.gif

That wasn't the kind of detailed/elaborate info i hoped for. *sadface*
 
I prefer everything over the original vanilla, also I still stand by my word the fanboys on this forum(ck one not the rest) are just bad and are keeping the game down, For example some people complained in Eu4 about Memel (square memel) and suggested that the dev team look at certain mods and improve it, while here people get downvoted into oblivion if they try to do that.

Also how Moldova looks irl and how it looks in game
1483.jpg

ck2_danube_new.png
I'm honestly willing to accept a certain degree of artistic license/lack of precision here for RP reasons. AFAIK cartography wasn't that exact of a science in the game time period.

It's kind of like the more ambiguous supernatural events, or the dynastic descent records in the game (e.g. how the probably fictional Ragnar Lothbrok and his sons actually exist and how most of the Irish counts claim descent from Conn of the Hundred Battles). We the players don't necessarily take it seriously but our characters certainly do.
 
When did I ever said anything about culture so don't transform this into nationalism, I just said that geographically it looks hideous I mean I just showed you geographical maps, i couldn't find maps of Moldova in the year 1066 because it didn't existed then, also why I'm so hostile is that I made threads about it and nobody cared ,and now after all those years PDX still cant get it right with so many mods and information out there.
Edit: Also Torki is in God damn Poland that's how bad the map is
 
I'm honestly willing to accept a certain degree of artistic license/lack of precision here for RP reasons. AFAIK cartography wasn't that exact of a science in the game time period.
Bullshit. The map is 3D and has precise mountains and rivers. We're no longer on 2D maps like those of EUI, EUII and CKI where this would actually be forgivable.
 
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Please remain civil in here!

If you want other map changes, then make a post in the suggestion or bug report forum (depending how you judge the situation, most likely suggestion though) if you want other changes to be made.

Off topic will be deleted, insults will be infracted!
 
As a person who lives in a White City on Danube, as well as Geography nerd, I highly approve this. While it is not perfect, it is a huge improvement.

I would also try to urge you, to actually consider giving such adjustments to many rivers, since there is a fair number of them, especially in Eastern Europe, that are well of course, but even river Rhine could use some adjusting. Dniester and Dnieper too.
 
Last, and definitely not least. Let’s take a look at Hungary and the Danube. The first thing I did was to redraw parts of the Danube to make it more accurate (as we all know, the old Danube was not quite where it was supposed to be). It now flows much closer to its actual location. The counties along the river have been adjusted accordingly. Pecs, for example, is now located on the correct side of it. The rest of Hungary has also been adjusted so that the kingdom is placed within the Carpathians.

Instead of taking my word for it, you can see for yourself in the screenshot below, in which you can see the updated coast of Croatia as well.

View attachment 239386

yjgQVBl.gif
 
Bullshit. The map is 3D and has precise mountains and rivers. We're no longer on 2D maps like those of EUI, EUII and CKI where this would actually be forgivable.
People drew mountains and rivers on maps back then, too; it doesn't mean they were 110% accurate about the actual shape. Remember, these are the same people who insisted on Aristotelian gravity despite the fact anybody who ever skipped stones could refute it by observation.

Remember, CK2 is as much an RPG as it is a strategy game.