CK2 Dev Diary #33: Let's Talk About Sects

[TheDungen]

Y'know, I wonder if it would be at all possible to make an 'Invite Missionary' action on the Decision Menu. I mean, it could be for Pagan leaders who, although having faith in their beliefs, is curious about their neighbor and their strange God(s). It could be like the Search for Physician action. Player would click it, and it triggers an event where the player's character makes it known that he's interested in learning about another faith (selected from a popup menu of sorts?) and it possibly attracts a missionary to the player's country. No more waiting for your catholic or orthodox or islamic etc, neighbors to decide to send their prophets and blokes to you. You can bring them in yourself. The missionaries could be from any nearby organized religion, even a reformed pagan one should it happen.

I think that would make an good addition to this DLC, given that it is religiously themed and such.

I would love to see this especially since tribals can't look for court physicians.

Since this is a religion like dlc, you could add pilgrimage to every reformed pagan religions and others too.

Again something I would really like. Well doesn't have to be pilgrimage but some special decision when you have religious focus.

@Doomdark, I'm wondering is it possible to include the Freemasons and have event chains associated with them? Also is it possible to have a mystic philosopher found a secret society resembling the Illuminati? As a bonus, if the founder is from the de jure area of k_bavaria, his or her dynasty name could be Weishaupt.

The freemasons was founded 50 years after the game ended, and for their first centuries they were simply another guild.

Complaining just to complain. I said like the Illuminati.

Like which Illuminati? The real ones or the pop culture ones seeing as how they have almost nothing in common with one another.

 

[Seon]

Like which Illuminati? The real ones or the pop culture ones seeing as how they have almost nothing in common with one another.

Maybe that's just what they want us to think...?

In all seriousness I doubt they'll put literal Illuminati in here, just their devil-worshipping cousins.

Maybe Hashashim will also get the secret society treatment?

 

[Lord_P]

I think it may just be that I've been playing Human Revolution, but...

I never asked for this.

 

[ChrisFox]

No, no recent patch altered the fact that the player's heritance passes within a single dynasty.

Yeah...I mean, I'm not sure what else to say. That same thing they did could be used for other systems.

Because it's a dumb thing to add, not because it's technically difficult. Many people still think it's a dumb thing to add, in fact.
To the extent that people might reasonably say that, that's more or less what happened. The caste system is not something that the player meaningfully interacts with. Limiting a dynasty to only one of the three holding types was never beyond the possibilities of the game though.

Now you are contradicting yourself. And I'm guessing you are wrong about many people thinking its dumb to add, since people have been asking for it for a long time.

Me neither, near as I can tell you just got mad when I answered your question.

I'm not angry, I haven't once resorted to a single insult against you. I just don't understand why I keep getting them myself.

People answering you is not ridicule.
Since you're posting on a public forum, you're asking everyone. Conveniently, many people here already know the answer, which is why you've been answered.

[/QUOTE]
No, but people telling me I know nothing about a game I have almost 400 hours on and assuming I understand nothing is.
Also a public forum is literally the only way to reliably contact the developers. They don't really do skype chats.

I don't want to get banned, and you seem to resort mostly to insults. This will be the last time I reply to one of your comments.

 

[Oorlog]

How about creating and naming your own sect, perhaps in the ruler designer, by choosing from a pool of parameters.

 

[Darkrenown]

Right now, supernatural events are all questionable in nature – they might be supernatural, but other reasonable explanations are also possible. Something outright supernatural like performing magic spells is on a whole nother level. That's not to say that it's bad and a lot of people may enjoy it, but it might be a good idea to make sure that the granularity of the option settings reflect this.

I wouldn't say Immortality is questionable, for example, or Satan regrowing your limbs. But if you're ok with killing Cthulhu or being the Antichrist and rationalizing it away as madness or superstition then surely you can apply the same to casting a spell? You're just nuts, perform a useless ritual, and then find a stray cat which makes you feel better about yourself rather than summoning a demonic familiar.

 

[RicVolvo]

Again something I would really like. Well doesn't have to be pilgrimage but some special decision when you have religious focus.

Well, I am tired and triggered of all these muslim and christian privileges. This game is historical, yet alternative as you can reform a pagan religion. They have holy sites, so why not adding pilgrimages and other events too? So far they added some events and crusade-like traits (though I dunno why is there Hellenic crusade trait... Maybe Hellenic dlc confirmed? Or paradox are trolling us that want a real Roman Empire Reformation?...) and are a step closer to equalize every religion. I mean, why a christian could go to Jerusalem, Rome etc., why I Slavic reformed can't go to Birlad, Rana, Plock etc.?

Also, these pagan names are very general. They could rename christians to westernic and muslims to southernic as we have germanic and slavic. Or better would be to be more creative and name pagans too? Like Slavobog instead of Slavic, Nordigud instead of Germanic, Baltidievas instead of Romuva, Suomejumala instead of Suomenusko etc. but those are only examples, I bet you can find a better suiting name, or get suggestion of represented cultures.

Another thing. Pagan religion has very generic icons, like suomenusko has a moose. Should be have a better suited symbol, something easy to draw like trinity knot that generic pagans have. That counts to germanic too. Eagle is very generic too. Tengri has good enough symbol and slavic has Perun's symbol on it, but kolovrat would be more suited for this. When you implement all these (which would make Paradox even popular and loved that they listen to their fans and costumers) do not forget to replace high churches, holy orders with suggested symbols and names for specific events.

And a last thing I have to say: Most of us would be very glad to fix titles in pagan homelands. If I am a pagan and hold a perticular title, it should change according to my culture/religion, but no, I have a fricking Jesus, angels and christian crosses on these. This happens mostly in Baltic, Ruthenian, and Slovak regions.

So that's all for now. I am sure you all have the "budget" and skills to improve your own game that we really like to play and it would be more and more immersive! Because this game is NOT Crusader Kings anymore. It's not all about christians and their laws and crusades... This is about whole middle age history, about everyone, every religion, culture, person etc. This game could be renamed to Medieval Simulator or The Middle Ages or something! You Paradox could only stay at Christians, but no! You have made improvements, upgrades, more immersion each time and more gameplay, simulation and fun! Don't stop now and continue! Listen to suggestions of your fans, we know what is missing in the game or would like to have and maybe this game will be one of the bestest game ever made and in memories of others throughout our lives! I hope many of Paradox members will read this and think about this and hopefuly implement this, because I believe in you and it's never too late to start something! *puts up a hand for this game and team*

 

[riadach]

I wouldn't say Immortality is questionable, for example, or Satan regrowing your limbs. But if you're ok with killing Cthulhu or being the Antichrist and rationalizing it away as madness or superstition then surely you can apply the same to casting a spell? You're just nuts, perform a useless ritual, and then find a stray cat which makes you feel better about yourself rather than summoning a demonic familiar.

Can we get a peak at the sort of legit societies that will be available? Will they differ from culture to culture, government type to government type?

 

[RicVolvo]

Can we get a peak at the sort of legit societies that will be available? Will they differ from culture to culture, government type to government type?

There are game rules for supernatural events for a reason.

 

[JohnnyDepressio]

Will there be "fantasy content"? For example can I become a satanist and clear the way for the coming of the antichrist? Can I become the antichrist himself prehaps and defet the christian heretics?

 

[TheDungen]

Maybe that's just what they want us to think...?

In all seriousness I doubt they'll put literal Illuminati in here, just their devil-worshipping cousins.

Maybe Hashashim will also get the secret society treatment?

You mean except that the conspiracy nuts think that the Illuminati strive for a dictatorship new world order while the real Illuminati were liberals seeking democracy?

I wouldn't say Immortality is questionable, for example, or Satan regrowing your limbs. But if you're ok with killing Cthulhu or being the Antichrist and rationalizing it away as madness or superstition then surely you can apply the same to casting a spell? You're just nuts, perform a useless ritual, and then find a stray cat which makes you feel better about yourself rather than summoning a demonic familiar.

No immortal isn't because that was added after the rule, as for satan regrowing your limbs I have never seen that event. Also Paradox are the ones who first said that the events weren't actually supernatural just interpreted as such. I like the old "supernatural" insanity events. But stuff like immortals and witchcraft not so much.
And there's a massive difference between a epileptic person being seen as possessed, and someone who actually runs around casting spells. The old events were written with the intention of being able to be read either way (why else did paradox hold that they weren't actually supernatural for so long?) while the new ones are totally up front about being intended to be read as actually being magic.

There are game rules for supernatural events for a reason.

Except it shuts of them all not just the really supernatural ones.

Will there be "fantasy content"? For example can I become a satanist and clear the way for the coming of the antichrist? Can I become the antichrist himself prehaps and defet the christian heretics?

Thus far we haven't seen anything except fantasy content.

 

[sreckom92]

Can we get a peak at the sort of legit societies that will be available? Will they differ from culture to culture, government type to government type?

Next dev diary will talk about actual societies.

 

[riadach]

Next dev diary will talk about actual societies.

I want it now, I want the kids to see.

 

[Darkrenown]

No immortal isn't because that was added after the rule, as for satan regrowing your limbs I have never seen that event. Also Paradox are the ones who first said that the events weren't actually supernatural just interpreted as such. I like the old "supernatural" insanity events. But stuff like immortals and witchcraft not so much.
And there's a massive difference between a epileptic person being seen as possessed, and someone who actually runs around casting spells. The old events were written with the intention of being able to be read either way (why else did paradox hold that they weren't actually supernatural for so long?) while the new ones are totally up front about being intended to be read as actually being magic.

You've never heard of the Demon child events? I'd say they were one of the most well-known event chains, if you've missed it then possibly you are less of an authority on previous events than you think.

You also mention being possessed - when the voice of Jesus is granting you +30 Martial then either it's a crazy guy with a strong placebo effect, -in which case why doesn't the same apply to "magic"?- or there's been magic all along.

Thus far we haven't seen anything except fantasy content.

You've seen two screenshots. What's so fantastical in the first?

 

[OverlordZenku]

Looks good. Now all I can think of is summoning an army of demons.

More Lovecraft events! Fingers crossed!

 

[DmUa]

You've never heard of the Demon child events? I'd say they were one of the most well-known event chains, if you've missed it then possibly you are less of an authority on previous events than you think.

- limb re-growing, witch raised, satanist worshiped child was a first step in clearly wrong direction and a lot of people lauded that event when it was first introduced in SoA. And btw knowing or not knowing about that event doesnt make TheDungen any less "of an authority", as you dont have to be expert on all existing events in order to be able to distinguish high fantasy content from normal content.

You also mention being possessed - when the voice of Jesus is granting you +30 Martial then either it's a crazy guy with a strong placebo effect, -in which case why doesn't the same apply to "magic"?- or there's been magic all along.

- aha, and immortality potion is just a placebo effect too. Its always nice to see a developer with moderator powers that uses ad hominem, trolling and strawmen when talking to their customers in order to defend his position.

You've seen two screenshots. What's so fantastical in the first?

- second one is pure fantasy on the other hand.

 

[Khannis]

I'd advocate for a slider of "full - rare - none" on the scale of supernatural effects. I like the ambiguous supernatural effects and the reference jokes (such as Cthulhu ramming for Norse), but don't want to turn it into a full-on fantasy game.

 

[Darkrenown]

- aha, and immortality potion is just a placebo effect too. Its always nice to see a developer with moderator powers that uses ad hominem, trolling and strawmen when talking to their customers in order to defend his position.

You're misunderstanding my post in several ways, please re-read the conversation.

I'm not saying they are placebos, it was me who said immortality and limb-regrowing were un-ambiguously fantasy - and immortality wasn't part of this conversation thread. I'm saying if you're ok with the possession events being seen as just crazy people I don't see why you wouldn't be ok with magic events also being crazy people. And if you don't like magic events, turn them off - it shouldn't be a problem.

And btw knowing or not knowing about that event doesnt make TheDungen any less "of an authority", as you dont have to be expert on all existing events in order to be able to distinguish high fantasy content from normal content.

When you base your argument on comparing new events to old events, actually knowing about the relevant old events is an important point. At no point have I said these are not fantasy events, so identifying them as such is not an achievement.

- second one is pure fantasy on the other hand.

Right, so not "everything we've seen", which was the specific point I was countering.

 

[Tom013]

- limb re-growing, witch raised, satanist worshiped child was a first step in clearly wrong direction and a lot of people lauded that event when it was first introduced in SoA.

You know that "lauded" indicates strong, public POSITIVE reaction, right? Not that you're wrong, a lot of people did laud them. I'm sure some had reservations too...

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

Well, I am tired and triggered of all these muslim and christian privileges. *snip* I hope many of Paradox members will read this and think about this and hopefuly implement this, because I believe in you and it's never too late to start something! *puts up a hand for this game and team*

If you have specific suggestions you could always drop them in the suggestions subforum.