CK2 Dev Diary #105 - Clergy Interactions Revamp

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Silfae

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Hello, everyone.

Today we will be talking of a nice quality of life update to the interface, AI behavior and some new additional flavor regarding the Papacy (as well as any similar religious head that has access to these interactions, such as a Reformed Pagan High Priest with Hierocratic Leadership).

20181019092639_1.jpg


The patch coming with Holy Fury will place all Papal Actions in a more easily accessible list of icons, right under the portrait of your religious head in the Religion screen.

Furthermore, the behavior for all these actions has been un-hardcoded and fully scripted, so the Pope is now much more sensible when deciding who he wants to Excommunicate, and less restrictive when considering the possibility of granting an Invasion casus belli to an ambitious ruler. More importantly, players are now able to see exactly why their religious head is denying them a request.

The AI logic itself has been considerably expanded and tailored to the various actions.

CatholicClergy1.jpg


Having a vassal Pope no longer ensures that all your demands will be automatically accepted, and having an independent Pope will not make it near-impossible to get a favor from him. The Pope will take into consideration Opinion, Piety, traits, the specific circumstances (such as divorcing an infertile wife), and the amount of controlled Cardinal seats when deciding whether to accept a ruler’s request or not. Piety costs for these interactions have also been rebalanced and tied to the ruler’s tier, making them more accessible to low ranking rulers and costlier to Kings and Emperors.

CatholicClergy2.jpg


The Request Claim interaction has been given a special new interface as well to make it more intuitive and accessible to players. Rather than having to search directly for the title that you wish to gain a claim on, you can use the new button in the religious view to get a list of potential Catholic rulers owning titles for which the Pope is willing to grant you a claim on. By clicking on any of them, you will be shown a second window showing the list of all titles owned by the target ruler and from there you can select the one that you are interested in.

20180824084127_1.jpg


Finally, if you are Excommunicated, the Issue Declaration of Repentance decision has been revamped so that it is no longer simply a cash payment.

Much like when requesting a coronation, the Pope will now pick one out of several possible demands for the player to fulfill in exchange for the lifting of his excommunication. Requests can range from a show of contrition causing Prestige loss, to changing your realm laws, to give one of your sons to the Church.


Also, bonus Cardinal clothes, pre and post 1245:

Cardinals preview.jpg
 

Silfae

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Finally those snazzy red robes. But which "Papal" interactions are available to reformed pagans with hierocratic leadership? Divorces and excommunications only?
Divorces, Excommunications, Grant Claim and Request Invasion are all available for Hierocratic and Autocephalous Leadership. Only Ask Money is exclusive to the Papacy.
 

Silfae

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Are Roman Catholic clergy members, or at least Catholics with the zealous trait meant to be clean-shaven after a certain year? The pre-1245 AD Cardinal has a beard, and the one after that does not, but is that just a stylistic choice on the part of those characters, or is it intended to fit into a more modern devout Catholic's uniform, of sorts?
I would say that is more of a random chance. Christian and Hellenics of Iberian/Italian/Roman culture are set to be more likely to shave their beards in general.
 

Silfae

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Un-hardcoding is always nice!

A few questions:

- Is the EP (and other autocephalous rel heads) still 100 % loyal, or does he fall under the same vassal rel head rule?

- Is there a way to ask other autocephalous rel heads than your own (particularly vassal ones) to excommunicate people for you (with or without some added difficulty to acceptance)?

- Is there a way to negotiate (to some extent; obviously, you're not in a great position to negotiate) the price of having an excommunication lifted (alternatively, will the Pope come up with a new demand if you ask a second time)? For example, becoming celibate could risk being game-ending, and perhaps you'd rather give a county/duchy to the church or something.

- Will the Pope remember what you did in order to have an excommunication lifted and take action if you go back on your word (e.g. breaking a vow of celibacy)?

- Will Catholic (or whatever the relevant faith is for a given rel head) Monastic Order members get any bonuses to papal (or whatever) interactions?

- The interactions use the new system regardless of what religious head they are being used on. (So yes, he's no longer 100% loyal either).
- No, they are only available towards your religious head.
- There are occasionally alternate options unlocked by traits/attributes, but, for the most part is a Yes/No event.
- No; most events are irreversible, so that would be hard to pull off in the first place.
- Not right now, though that is a nice suggestion.
 

Silfae

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Will the Shattered World and Random World work with the EU4 Converter?

How will Pagan Reformation affect the converter? For example; will a Reformed Hierocratic Suomenusko Independent High Priest get the Papacy government in EU4?
I'm not familiar with the converter or EU4, so I'm afraid I cannot answer these.

Are there similar types of interactions with Temporal Religous Leaders?
No, Temporal Heads do not get these interactions as a way to balance the Leadership type.

What are Norse Hierocratic Leaders, Suomenusko Temporal Leaders, Hellenic Temporal Leaders and Hellenic Hierocratic Leaders called?
Fylkir, Tietaja, Pontifex Maximus. The titles are not changed based on Leadership.

What are the Hellenic holy orders?
The Myrmidons.
 

Silfae

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Thanks for the reply and sorry to bother you again but what about the other pagan religious like Zunist, Slavic, Tengri, what are their reformed leader names.
Zunist = Dastur
Slavic = Chernoban
Tengri = Tengrikut

He might just not have enough, the screenshot was taken at the start of the game he might have like 15 piety (maybe even less since he's cynical)
Yes, this is on start, and she has 5000 Piety.
 

Silfae

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When I said like Zunist, Slavic Tengri I was using then as an example. I just wanted to know all the other Pagan leader names. Sorry if I made that unclear. I also speak Finnish, Spanish and French so my English isn't the best.
Baltic = First Vaidila
Aztec = Tlatoani
African = Grand Saltigue
Bon = Dalai Lama
I think that is all of them.
Does this mean that now there are actual reasons for divorce (like impotence, consanguinity, etc)?
Yes.
Is it safe to assume that upon reforming any pagan religion, it is the religious leader that will receive the crown artifact if the player chooses the leadership to be either hierocratic or autocephalous?
Reformation crowns are only for temporal leadership.
Hierocratic religious heads receive a different kind of religious headgear (no artifact).
 

Silfae

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Could we know what reasons for divorce does the system contemplate? :)
The biggest modifiers include: consanguinuity, infidelity, infertility (it checks for children, naturally, the Pope doesn't know the actual fertility score of your spouse), blasphemous behavior (open witch/satanist/heathen).
Will there be a mechanic that allows rulers to ignore the Pope's demands and thus open themselves up to Papal interdicts?
No.
Does the AI know to use these mechanics? In other words, does the AI request invasions and try to get people excommunicated? Are we told if a third party tries to get us excommunicated or asks for an invasion?
Yes, AI will use it on occasion and players are notified when action is taken against them.

Also, has "request money from pope" been tied to the pope's income instead of the requester's income? I've been unable to use it because my income was too high in the past.
No, money requests are still tied to the ruler's income. Higher tier rulers spend more piety to get more money and viceversa.
 

Silfae

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If the pope aks for your son. Do you have to give THAT specific son or can you choose yourself a son. Also when you have a reformed pagan enatic hierocratic religion or even equality as doctrine, can you get asked for daughters
A valid child is selected randomly by the Pope, so the ruler has no choice if more are available.
There is no gender lock: the Pope might ask for a daughter to become a nun.
 

Silfae

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Good. Does consnguinity only apply to Close relatives or does it apply to more distant relatives like it was historically. Also, does the text when granted a Divorce change according to the reason for it or will it, as it does now, refer to consanguinity always? That could be more immersive.
No change to the notification as of now, though that is something that could be done.
As for consanguinity, there are two modifiers, one for far relatives (25) and one for close relatives (40).
 

Silfae

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Everyone calls you "top dog!" and you get to decide who to Great Holy War. I only care about the first one, though.
You also get a nice hat...
 

Silfae

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I assume pope will always grant divorces to sibling-sibling or parent-child unions, if for some reason character that had divine marriage converted to Catholicism?
Being married to a sibling will make it very easy to request a Divorce from the Pope, but it's not a necessarily a certainty. If you have a very bad ruler or the Pope really hates you, you might still stack up enough negative modifiers to not get the divorce.
 

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Silfae

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Me too. I also see the Late era for graphics has been changed to 1245 instead of 1200. @Silfae , What about the other "graphical eras" (Early and Middle)? Did they change too?
It hasn't. The Cardinal clothes use a specific layer. The cutoff is 1245 because that is when the galero was introduced historically.
 

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I'm not certain, but I think I remember "Chernobog" having a secondary implication of "God of the Earth", as contrasting with "Dazhbog" (Bright God, or Sky God).

I have to admit, my first thought is the Disney character from Fantasia (which again is based on the Slavic God) :confused:
 

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  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle