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CK2 Dev Diary #103 - Long live the King!

Greetings.

Today we will put Pagans aside, go back to good old Catholics, and explore one of the new features coming for them with Holy Fury: Coronation Ceremonies.

20180730085127_1.jpg


With this expansion, succeeding to the throne of a Catholic Kingdom or Empire will not be a simple matter of gaining the title itself. The new ruler will need to organize a Coronation Ceremony (via new intrigue decision) and be recognized as legitimate by a notable member of the Catholic Church.
If a Catholic ruler fails to be officially crowned, he will see his popularity slowly fade away each year, as his vassals grow more and more restless under what they perceive as an illegitimate King.

20180730085152_1.jpg


Coronation is divided into two phases: preparation and ceremony.
During the preparation, the ruler will decide whom he wishes to be crowned by, he will meet the Church’s demands, and invest money to organize the ceremony. In the second phase, the ruler will host the ceremony itself, interacting with guests and ultimately receiving his crown.

When organizing a ceremony, a Catholic King can choose between three possible options when it comes to officiant priests: he can be crowned by a low-status theocratic vassal within his realm, by a powerful theocratic vassal within his realm (such as a Cardinal, Antipope or Prince-Bishop), or by the Pope himself. Catholic Emperors who fail to enact the Free Investiture succession on the other hand will be limited in their selection only to the Pope.
While being crowned by a local Bishop is a lot less prestigious, it is also much cheaper, as higher-ranking members of the Church will be prone to make outlandish requests, especially if they dislike the ruler requesting them to officiate his coronation.

Coronation2.jpg


Requests may vary a lot, especially when it comes to the Pope: the Holy Father might ask you to change your realm’s Investiture laws, wage war against an Excommunicated ruler on behalf of the Papacy, or to restore some of the Central Italian provinces to the Holy See.
Be sure to be in good relations with the Pope before asking for a coronation if you wish to receive a more tolerable offer.

Once the demands of your chosen priest have been met, you will be able to select a budget for your ceremony which will determine the kind of coronation you will receive, the kind of flavor events tied to it and the number of guests participating in it.
An extravagant coronation is a prestigious event to which all your vassals, courtiers and even neighboring Christian rulers are invited, a secluded coronation is a private feast to which only your Council will have access to.

20180730091014_1.jpg


Once the ceremony has been concluded, your character will receive a specific trait tied to the priest that crowned him, as well as retain any additional perks granted by the flavor events experienced during the feast leading up to the coronation.

You might have noticed from the screenshots that this new mechanic affects character portraits as well: Catholic Kings and Emperors that have not been crowned will no longer wear the high-tier headgear in Holy Fury, defaulting to the Ducal band instead until their rank has been officially recognized by the Church (naturally, if you do not own Holy Fury, Catholic Kings and Emperors will wear the appropriate gear by default as before).

20180730091758_1.jpg


This is not the only portrait-related addition though: Holy Fury will bring to the game a series of special crown artifacts that will be visible on portraits whenever the characters are wearing them. Most of these artifacts can only be used when the character meets certain requirements and they are often tied to a specific title rather than a character’s dynasty.

Coronation6.jpg

Coronation7.jpg


And this should be about it for this week.
 

schwarherz

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Just FYI, one of the original devs for CK2+ now works for Paradox. You might know them as "Wiz". The head dev from the AGOT mod, "BlackNinja" also works for Paradox as well.

As has already been made clear, many features are not really based on those in mods, as they are all drawing from the common inspiration of history.

However, even without that, are you really going to bother Paradox over this when the head devs for some of these mods now work for them, and likely played a deliberate role in shaping the creative process of CK2's development? Are you going to accuse these mod authors of stealing from themselves, or attack Paradox for not giving them credit despite employing them as a result, and more?
I was avoiding posting here but I felt the need to respond to this. Wiz has not been involved in CK2Plus for literal years and had nothing to do with the mod mechanics in question. In fact, a very large percentage of the mod was written after he was hired by paradox and thus stopped modding.

To be very clear, I am refusing to take part in the discussion about whether Paradox took features from mods or not. I am merely refuting the notion that Wiz wrote CK2Plus as it exists today.
 

Me_

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I like this feature especially for the fact that it's going to increase the importance of clergy vassals.
 

Bearjuden

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What happens if you decline their requests though? Can you try again immediately? is there any penalty?

Devs said there is a delay but no penalty besides the opinion modifier, but if you try again from the same person (say, the same Pope) they're likely to just repeat their previous request.
 

42dustman

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I hope the opinion malus from being uncrowned never exceeds the one from being of a different religion altogher, else we would get absurd situations such as this:

_"He has already ruled for 20 years and still wasn't crowned by the pope. I'm so mad at my king! Hes not a legitimate ruler! GRRR!"
[King converts to hellenic paganism and starts feeding christians to the lions]
_"Finally! Now he is a true king!"
 

raistlin_wizard

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I hope the opinion malus from being uncrowned never exceeds the one from being of a different religion altogher, else we would get absurd situations such as this:

_"He has already ruled for 20 years and still wasn't crowned by the pope. I'm so mad at my king! Hes not a legitimate ruler! GRRR!"
[King converts to hellenic paganism and starts feeding christians to the lions]
_"Finally! Now he is a true king!"
Well, the cap looks like it would be at -60, so...
 

Silfae

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Hey Silfae, could you kindly show us the requirements for the coronation ceremony? I am wondering if you need to be at peace and if only adults can be crowned
You need to be at peace, or have been uncrowned for several years.
As for age, the ruler needs to be at least 11; to be able to perform a coronation before 16, the child must either be ambitious, quick/genius or willful and the regent must like him enough.
If your Anti-Pope gets turned into a Pope, does your "crowned by" trait get upgraded?
No, once set, it remains as is. It is more convenient for a ruler to press the Anti-Pope's claim first as then the new Pope will likely already love him and request the cheapest price for a coronation.
If you ask the pope to crown you, and he comes with (for you) ridiculous request. So you say no I would rather be crowned by my minor bisshop. I expect the pope is not happy when you do this. Does this have some consequences, like for example (I know it is though) excommunication or something bad.
Nothing so extreme, but Popes and powerful vassals do indeed get upset if a ruler snubs them for a cheaper priest.
What determines a "powerful bishop", just highest title rank? What if there are no country/duchy level bishops? What if there is an empire level bishop, that's sort of even higher than the pope's title; is that acknowledged in some way? Are powerful bishops and/or the pope more likely to do your bidding if you are their ruler (and thus have more direct power over them)?
A powerful bishop within your realm, independent theocracies are not taken into account. "Powerful" means either Count-tier (or above), Cardinal, or Anti-Pope. If there is none in your realm, the option is simply not available.

Can we do a Napoleon though? Out of the time period, but a strong enough conqueror could force the pope hand, that would make for an interesting dynamic.
Under certain rare circumstances, it is a possibility, though the aftermath is not going to be pretty.

Do Fratcilli get coronations?
Good question, yes, Fraticelli do indeed get coronation, since gameplay-wise they are extremely close to Catholics. It completely slipped from the Dev Diary.

What happens if you decline their requests though? Can you try again immediately? is there any penalty?
There is no penalty, but there is a cooldown on the decision, so you will need to wait a few months before trying again.
 

GoldenShotgun

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This adds so much flavor...though I wonder how long it'll be before a "Pope demands YOUR lands before he'll crown you" bug pops up. :p
 

Silfae

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riadach

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But not in the Christian way which is what this mechanic is. I would be really upset if pagans got something similar to coronations before Orthodox do.

I agree. I was just pointing out that proving oneself to heaven makes sense in a pagan context too. It's the conflict with the clergy (or more accurately, the use of coronation by the clergy as leverage over a secular ruler) that makes the mechanic suitable for Catholics only.
 

Kukumarro

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Say you ask the Pope to crown you and you reject his outraging demands. Can you then apoint an Antipope, wage war on the Pope to crown your candidate, and ask again the Pope (who now is your guy) to crown you?
 

Silfae

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If I'm a king and become an Emperor, do I get another coronation?
No.
Say you ask the Pope to crown you and you reject his outraging demands. Can you then apoint an Antipope, wage war on the Pope to crown your candidate, and ask again the Pope (who now is your guy) to crown you?
Yes.