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CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

20180730093248_1.jpg


Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

20180730093553_1.jpg


The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
20180730093708_1.jpg


Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

20180730094033_1.jpg


While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

20180730094125_1.jpg


A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

Hellenics5.jpg


Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

20180730094306_1.jpg


First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

20180730094406_1.jpg


Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 

Wixelt

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Implement all the pagans!!!
 

Maal

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redtide

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Woden/Odin was usually identified with Pluto - Tyr was usually identified with Jupiter.

I'm less familiar with those associations. Could you expand upon that?

Thor was variously identified with Hercules or Iuppiter, and Woden with Mercury.

Wasn't Tyr usually identified with Mars? At least in Tacitus' Germania.

I'm more familiar with this. And it's preserved in the English and Latin names of the days of the week:
Code:
Latin         English
Saturn        ---
Sol           Sun
Luna          Moon
Mars          Tíw
Mercury       Wōden
Jupiter       Thunor
Venus         Frige

EDIT: though come to think of it, I have heard of the etymological relation between "Týr/Tíw" and "Zeus" (Jupiter) and "Deus"
 
Last edited:

Kazanov

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Can't say I'm happy about Paradox pointlessly giving in to the meme lords when the effort that went into this could be better spent on something that actually suits the Middle Ages.

Like the Sunset Invasion or the Cult of Satan, right?
 

Cyhort

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Can't say I'm happy about Paradox pointlessly giving in to the meme lords when the effort that went into this could be better spent on something that actually suits the Middle Ages.

God I know, right? Why give people more opportunities to have fun and play the game the way they want? They should stick to totally realistic features like immortality, getting impregnated by the devil, and the Aztecs invading Europe.
 

Slayen

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Hello,

Thank you for giving us so much practical information (and giving us ROMANS).

I have a practical question - can you tell us what retinues the Romans will get?

I'm rather hoping they won't be "legionaries" because, really, for most of the Imperial period the Emperor's personal troops were some sort of cavalry bodyguard, alongside the Praetorians before C. 320AD.

My vote would be "Scholae", a unit with a mix of heavy and light cavalry.

Will you be adding a special retinue for Roman culture?

Asked and answered:

They get a pikemen/heavy infantry mix to try and represent the Legion.
Their cultural building is the Camp of Mars, also giving Pikemen.

Also, am I the only one who uses the "Show only Dev responses" button to check to see what questions have already been answered before posting?
 

TinWiz

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This is nice and all, but will we be able to crucify?
yeah don't leave out the famous Roman crucifixions. If a megalomaniac managed to resurrect the Hellenic religion amongst a Christian populace he'd be crucifying people left and right in mockery. Also: slavery; there would be a lot of slavery going on.

A Roman Emperor who brings back Hellenism should get the "Apostate" title, too.
 

Ruisuki

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hello devs i noticed in your DDs you have the mass conversion diplomacy interaction use numbers instead of ++/-- so im wondering...is this moddable for ALL diplomatic actions? Getting rid of the archaic system in favor of numbers across the board would be an overdue blessing. Not to mention adding a unique interaction akin to "Dont ask will never accept this proposal -100" to save time.
 

Prince Ire

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Like the Sunset Invasion or the Cult of Satan, right?
Yes, exactly like those things. Sunset Invasion was silly and the Satanic Cults actively hurt the DLC they were in by clearly taking up the most resources, leaving many of the actually reasonable society feeling barren in comparison.

God I know, right? Why give people more opportunities to have fun and play the game the way they want? They should stick to totally realistic features like immortality, getting impregnated by the devil, and the Aztecs invading Europe.
All of which were stupid and shouldn't have been in the game.
 

Keizer Harm

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by clearly taking up the most resources
Actually developing the Hermetic society took the most resources, as they stated. The Satanists were just marketed more.