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CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

20180730093248_1.jpg


Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

20180730093553_1.jpg


The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
20180730093708_1.jpg


Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

20180730094033_1.jpg


While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

20180730094125_1.jpg


A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

Hellenics5.jpg


Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

20180730094306_1.jpg


First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

20180730094406_1.jpg


Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 

DominusNovus

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Why would you burn Rome as a Christian?

Ask those that have done it.

Unrelated, but I can’t help but notice that these improvements would help out quite a bit if paradox wanted to make, say, an earlier start date.
 

Silfae

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Because its full of filthy papist, Latin, schismatic, sacking, backstabbing, barbarians posing as civilized peoples?
Naturally, if you pick that decision as a Christian ruler, you will not be shouting "It's your turn now, Galileans!", the flavor will be different.
 

treb

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Well, you are not burning Rome, you are burning the Vatican, as an Orthodox Roman Emperor that wants to assert dominance over the Papacy.
Or you could just be a lunatic.
I'm just saying, the option is still available... And those pesky temple holdings are still in the way...

Do I get to play the fiddle too?
 

Nameless_Ensign

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Or you could just be a lunatic.
Oh hey, that'd be a great bit of roleplaying! Too bad I never get Lunatics.

\Unrelated, but I can’t help but notice that these improvements would help out quite a bit if paradox wanted to make, say, an earlier start date.
No, let's not go there. Then we'll get a deluge of people asking for even more older religions.
 

thevmag

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Woah. All those Hellenic temples... that's going to be a lot of gunpowder storage :eek:

Cool update on what pagan Autocephalous looks like. Are all reformed pagans going to get one king-level Top Patriarch, or is this a Hellenic-specific thing, for an existing empire, and every other reformed autocephalous pagan just gets bishop-level patriarchs?
 

Teutonic King

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This is absolutely Glorious. Finally I can restore the Hellenic World properly rather than being force to use mods. @Silfae the dev team might want to consider adding in Titan Worship as a heretical faith since the Titans are huge in the Greco-Roman mythological pantheon.

Any way, this finally means I can properly restore the Seleucid Empire, and drive it to conquer all of Alexander's former empire! Elephants and Pikes here I come!
 

LeSingeAffame

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This is absolutely Glorious. Finally I can restore the Hellenic World properly rather than being force to use mods. @Silfae the dev team might want to consider adding in Titan Worship as a heretical faith since the Titans are huge in the Greco-Roman mythological pantheon.
Or maybe some combition of doctrines will allow us to worship the Titans instead of the Olympians?

@Silfae , is it possible to worship Hades / Pluton as the main deity with some doctrines?
 

Ursul

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I'd wish you guys could add Mani as a new county, with a Hellenic majority in 769 and 867 bookmarks. That part was actually historically accurate.
I'm afraid they said they will not add Hellenism in the history files. Now, they also said they will not make hellenism playable so...

Regardless, considering how small the Mani peninsula is, I think even adding a 1 holding county would be too much. Now adding a tribal holding to c_monemvasia; maybe even make it independent with a titular title...
 

Silfae

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Woah. All those Hellenic temples... that's going to be a lot of gunpowder storage :eek:

Cool update on what pagan Autocephalous looks like. Are all reformed pagans going to get one king-level Top Patriarch, or is this a Hellenic-specific thing, for an existing empire, and every other reformed autocephalous pagan just gets bishop-level patriarchs?
Eh, no. The Hellenic Religious head is specifically King-tier: the Pagan Pontifex Maximus should have the same tier as the Christian Pontifex Maximus.
 

Silfae

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what are the odds of Ai character who somehow managed to restore rome and is already insane doing this?
It is a possibility... The AI would need to restore the Roman Empire on its own first.
 

Chnapy

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Eh, no. The Hellenic Religious head is specifically King-tier: the Pagan Pontifex Maximus should have the same tier as the Christian Pontifex Maximus.
Are the Excommunication, Coronation and Grant Claim shortcuts (1st picture, next to the divorce one) also hellenic-and-christian-exclusives, or are all pagan religions getting expanded papal mechanics, provided that they pick one of the two leaderships with secular heads?
 

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@Silvae will hellenism be dlc locked or just the revival?
Hellenism is already in the game, just not playable. It was playable when Legacy of Rome (I think?) was released, so now locking it behind Holy Fury would be a bit awkward I suppose
 

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"Emperor! Pagans from north is raiding our border"
"I shall crash them!" Emperor defeated pagan tribe raiders.
"Emperor! We are attacked by Muslim from east!"
"Fine..." Emperor bravely repelled Muslim attack.
"Emperor! We are targeted by 4th Crusade!"
"This is just stupid!" ....Anyway, Byzantine survived.
"Emperor! 99.999% of your subjects suddenly turned into Hellenic"
Byzantine emperor rage quited the game..... :p
 

treb

unbeatable loser
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Does reviving Hellenism specifically require being emperor of Rome or can any cloudcuckoolander on a holy spot revive it?

also when you noted that romance speakers will be particularly quick to take Latin back up does that include ones not in the culture groups like Vlach?