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CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

20180730093248_1.jpg


Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

20180730093553_1.jpg


The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
20180730093708_1.jpg


Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

20180730094033_1.jpg


While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

20180730094125_1.jpg


A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

Hellenics5.jpg


Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

20180730094306_1.jpg


First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

20180730094406_1.jpg


Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 

Silversweeeper

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If you reintroduce the faith after restoring the Roman Empire (in which case you already hold all the holy sites from what I can remember), will there be something in place preventing you from being forcibly swapped to Gavelkind since you can have Primogeniture (or Seniority, etc.) before converting as you basically can reform to a religion with access to good succession laws right away but could be locked out of swapping to one because the non-converting vassals dislike you too much?
 

killerbee256

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From a mo
First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
Can modders apply this to other religions, such as Germanic or Slavic. So instead of Thor, Germans would have Donar, Anglo-Saxons Þunor, Norse Þórr?
 

Mackus

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Latin names are default, they switch to the Greek versions if reformed by a Greek.
So it' not dynamic, depending on culture of particular character, but is set in stone once reformed?
What if Greek character reforms religion, then changes culture of Empire to Roman, shouldn't names also change?
 

Orinsul

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I'm not sure the event artwork really fits here. Surely if one were to become hellenic, then the Colluseum would not be on the chopping block if you were to burn Rome's Christian sites?

arent that many pre-renaissance iconic christian buildings in rome
And if you burn down a city, it's goes everywhere.
 

Aotrs Commander

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So... If you have an ongoing game, say, where you are the Roman Empire, say, and after getting Holy Fury (and hoping that saves are compatible[1]), might you get,I dunno, the decision to covert to Roman culture? Or would that only apply to the character that actually founded Rome...?



[1]Since said game started pre-Reaper's, it has made it through every expansion since then fine, so I would hope...
 

Silfae

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If you reintroduce the faith after restoring the Roman Empire (in which case you already hold all the holy sites from what I can remember), will there be something in place preventing you from being forcibly swapped to Gavelkind since you can have Primogeniture (or Seniority, etc.) before converting as you basically can reform to a religion with access to good succession laws right away but could be locked out of swapping to one because the non-converting vassals dislike you too much?
If you are picking Doctrines that enforce a specific kind of succession, the succession law will be applied the moment you convert. If you are picking Doctrines that only enable a specific kind of succession, you will have to change the law manually as usual (the new law will just become available). This is of course valid for any Pagan Reformation.

Is this a DLC feature or is it free with the patch? (Not that it matter because I will buy it on day 1)
All events/decisions based on the Hellenic Revival are DLC-locked.

From a mo

Can modders apply this to other religions, such as Germanic or Slavic. So instead of Thor, Germans would have Donar, Anglo-Saxons Þunor, Norse Þórr?
There are new commands that can be used by modders to remove god names, replace the high god or add new god names, yes.
Some changes will already happen on Reformation, depending on the Doctrines being picked.

So it' not dynamic, depending on culture of particular character, but is set in stone once reformed?
Yes.
I understand that there might be other believable circumstances that could cause god names to be switched (for Hellenic or other religions), but, to avoid potential oddities, all changes happen during Reformation.

So... If you have an ongoing game, say, where you are the Roman Empire, say, and after getting Holy Fury (and hoping that saves are compatible[1]), might you get,I dunno, the decision to covert to Roman culture? Or would that only apply to the character that actually founded Rome...?

[1]Since said game started pre-Reaper's, it has made it through every expansion since then fine, so I would hope...

The Roman Renaissance decision should appear regardless, though, given all the map and code changes coming with HF, I'm not sure if there wouldn't be other strange things happening on the map.
 

Lord Lambert

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arent that many pre-renaissance iconic christian buildings in rome
And if you burn down a city, it's goes everywhere.
Just show a church on fire, though reading some of the responses to this dev diary that seems to be quite triggering for some. Either way, the colluseum would not burn in this hypothetical scenario
 

Ared408

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will Sol Invictus be add with the Roman culture? If added, would it be as a Roman cult or a heresies because I'd like to be the official sun god of the Roman Empire.

Also maybe adding Mithraism
 

Ringir

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Does the Hellenic religion use the Christian Saint system to emulate apotheosis - declaring dead Emperors as gods (For example Caesar "became" after his dead Divus Ilius or Augustus that became Divus Augustus and so on )?