Once again we are back with yet another development diary for Cities: Skylines. This time we are going to get a glimpse of the public transport options in your future cities.

If you want to refresh your memory about the previous dev diaries, check here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?802652-Cities-Skylines-dev-diary-archive

Working on public transport in Cities: Skylines we wanted to offer a variety of choices for the players to set up their public transport network while still keeping in mind that Cities: Skylines is first and foremost a city builder game rather than a transport simulator. Our goal was to implement the feature in so that it would be easy to use, following in suit with the rest of the features while still being robust enough to make it interesting and strategically sound. The fans of Cities in Motion games had always wanted to build rail networks and airports to control the intercity traffic but the scope of those games was always within the city limits. However, with Cities: Skylines' goods transport and citizens moving in and out of the city, we felt that it was a good time to bring in the intercity traffic possibilities to public transport.

Public transport types
Cities: Skylines features several modes of public transport. You can set up a bus network, dig metro tunnels, lay down tracks for passenger and cargo trains, build both passenger and cargo terminals for ships and build an airpot. Bus and metro network is for inner city transport while train network can service both inner city and intercity needs (both, passenger and cargo trains!). The harbors and the airport service intercity connections.

Bus transport
The bus transport is the first, low-cost choice for public transport. There are two structures required for it to work: the bus depot and bus stops. The bus depot works as the storage space for the buses in the city and when setting up new bus routes you can see the buses leaving the depot for their designated routes. Adjusting the budget for buses causes more (or less) buses to appear on the routes. One bus depot can service the whole city but a placing more than one in strategic places around the city can shorten the time when new buses reach their routes since they don't have to drive through the whole city to get there.

The bus depot.

A bus stop in the suburbs.

Metro
Metro is an efficient transport mode to move a lot of people fast. However, its downside is the high building cost since the player needs to build both the metro entrances (stations) as well as the underground tracks. Underground track building is done in a special view mode where the tracks and stations are highlighted. This mode also highlights the other public transport buildings, tracks and routes which makes planning of the network easier.

A metro entrance near the center of the city.

Inspecting the metro line in the special public transport info view mode.

Trains
Trains are divided into passenger and cargo trains. Both trains have their own terminals that the player can build in the city. The player can use the train network in two different ways:
1) If they only build the terminals and connect the train tracks to the outside connecting train tracks found on the map, the terminals will service intercity traffic, importing and exporting cargo and passengers (tourists).
2) The player is also able to use the train line tool to create train routes within the city limits i.e. the player is able to build inner city train lines servicing the different parts of the city.
Train tracks are cheaper to build compared to underground metro tracks but train tracks require room to be built hence they must be fitted within the city next to all the buildings and roads. However, the player can build elevated train tracks to navigate over some of the obstacles a city can present.

The passenger train terminal. Tourists are boarding the train.

Cargo train terminal located in an industrial area of the city.

Cargo train has left the terminal and is heading outside of the city.

Cities: Skylines features elevated train tracks as well.

Railway bridge next to the highway.

Harbors
Harbors are divided into a passenger harbor and a cargo harbor. Both service intercity traffic, bringing in tourists and shipping goods to and from the city. Due to the huge capacity of the ships harbors are one of the largest entry points into the city by means of public transport.

Passenger ship arriving to the passenger terminal.

A Cargo ship and a cargo terminal.

Airport
Airport services mostly passengers and is the most expensive public transport investment. It brings in a lot of tourists and can really boost the economy. While the airport increases tourism into the city it also causes quite a lot of noise pollution which means that it is wise to build the airport far from residential zones.

The airport.

- Henkka also known as an artist, designer and level designer at Colossal Order

 

[Periy]

My input

After reading the diary and reading all the comments i think we're all agreed on a few things that really needs to be adressed. Even if CO is making a citybuilder, the majority of the fanbase rose from CIM & CIM2. We want our public transport and we want it good.

I also wan't to add that i am aware of the fact that these photos are from the alpha and are subjects to change.


1- The busses needs more models than a "coach-model" and stops must be able to accomodate several lines. Busses should also have bus centrals where alot of lines can stop

2- Metro stations need to be smaller. I would hate to sacrifice several buildings in order to place a stop. They need to adapt to buildings, perhaps even merge with buildings.

3- Metros and trains should be able to share tracks or atleast somehow have their stations link together. Trains should have tunnels and metros should have overground/bridge segments. The difference would be that metros have more capacity and faster acceleration, but less comfort and a lower top speed. Trains would have less capacity and slower acceleration, but higher comfort and a higher top speed. Trains would also bee the only of the two capable of inter-city connections

4- We should be able to create large centralstations for trains, where all the lines to and from the city finally stops.

5- Freight trainstations should link with freight harbours. Even if there is simply no need for freight to share "Hubs" it would be visually pleasing to have it look like a ship unloads cargo and trains come and pick it up.

6- Harbours of both types are disguntingly small. I work onboard a passenger ship that size and our harbours and terminals are easily 5x that size. What is also common is that freight is stored adjacent to passanger terminals since alot of passanger ships also take a little bit of cargo.

7- The airport is far to small. Not realistic at all! If that makes end-game i'll just pretend that the airport feature don't exist...
Airports are large elaborate structures with longer runways!


As a final note: Sorry but i'm not impressed. I think you can do better and i hope that you do better.

 

[fefenc]

After reading the diary and reading all the comments i think we're all agreed on a few things that really needs to be adressed. Even if CO is making a citybuilder, the majority of the fanbase rose from CIM & CIM2. We want our public transport and we want it good.

I also wan't to add that i am aware of the fact that these photos are from the alpha and are subjects to change.


1- The busses needs more models than a "coach-model" and stops must be able to accomodate several lines. Busses should also have bus centrals where alot of lines can stop

2- Metro stations need to be smaller. I would hate to sacrifice several buildings in order to place a stop. They need to adapt to buildings, perhaps even merge with buildings.

3- Metros and trains should be able to share tracks or atleast somehow have their stations link together. Trains should have tunnels and metros should have overground/bridge segments. The difference would be that metros have more capacity and faster acceleration, but less comfort and a lower top speed. Trains would have less capacity and slower acceleration, but higher comfort and a higher top speed. Trains would also bee the only of the two capable of inter-city connections

4- We should be able to create large centralstations for trains, where all the lines to and from the city finally stops.

5- Freight trainstations should link with freight harbours. Even if there is simply no need for freight to share "Hubs" it would be visually pleasing to have it look like a ship unloads cargo and trains come and pick it up.

6- Harbours of both types are disguntingly small. I work onboard a passenger ship that size and our harbours and terminals are easily 5x that size. What is also common is that freight is stored adjacent to passanger terminals since alot of passanger ships also take a little bit of cargo.

7- The airport is far to small. Not realistic at all! If that makes end-game i'll just pretend that the airport feature don't exist...
Airports are large elaborate structures with longer runways!


As a final note: Sorry but i'm not impressed. I think you can do better and i hope that you do better.

I would give you a like, but I can't :0

I agree 100% with you, the devs shouldn't wait for the simcity community fix their game for them, they should give us the best thing that they can do.

I know that the colossal team has a lot of potential to do a mega city simulator and I hope they notice all the mistakes they're doing with the lack of realism on the game and they fix all these issues on the airport and the seaport until the release of the game, otherwise I'll do like you, I'll pretend that both features don't exist. The airport is too small and every plane would find several problems to land on that small airport. The subway station, by the other hand, is too big and takes a lot of useless space for a building that has only a underground stair and could be located at the sidewalks instead of taking a house space :\

 

[Nyarlathotep78]

After reading the diary and reading all the comments i think we're all agreed on a few things that really needs to be adressed. Even if CO is making a citybuilder, the majority of the fanbase rose from CIM & CIM2. We want our public transport and we want it good.

I also wan't to add that i am aware of the fact that these photos are from the alpha and are subjects to change.



5- Freight trainstations should link with freight harbours. Even if there is simply no need for freight to share "Hubs" it would be visually pleasing to have it look like a ship unloads cargo and trains come and pick it up.

6- Harbours of both types are disguntingly small. I work onboard a passenger ship that size and our harbours and terminals are easily 5x that size. What is also common is that freight is stored adjacent to passanger terminals since alot of passanger ships also take a little bit of cargo.

I agree with all that you´ve posted, but especially these two pic just gave me the idea that harbors could / should have a train (freight harbor) / sub (tourist harbor) station implemented. After al it´s not very likely the all the freigt containers are hauled on trucks to the next train station...

 

[Funny mayor]

1- The busses needs more models than a "coach-model" and stops must be able to accomodate several lines. Busses should also have bus centrals where alot of lines can stop

2- Metro stations need to be smaller. I would hate to sacrifice several buildings in order to place a stop. They need to adapt to buildings, perhaps even merge with buildings.

I totally agree. 1) There should be city buses, not the shape of coaches. 2) Metro stations: there are more defects. It's not only too big, but we couldn't absolutely build with this item. If we think about downtowns with huge buildings where we couldn't place anything without demolishing what is already in that place, then we need anything else. Something like subway entrances inside a building, near a street intersection; it would be nice with a little banner just outside the door of a building. But "normal" entrances would be anyway good in other situations, i.e. near parks and large plazas, or other open spaces.
I'd like to see multifunctional objects, too. The typical example is a train metro station, or an airport merged with a train or a metro station, or three-in-one. But we can have freight and merged industrial harbours, as well.
Another point: when we create bus lines I'd like to know if the same bus stop can be used for many lines, not only one. Thank you in advance, and good work!

 

[davfos]

At the risk of continuing an unwelcome debate; I'm not saying that at all. I'm sure the devs welcome all feedback, recommendations and ideas, otherwise they wouldn't be so active in the community. However it's somewhat irksome that the majority of the comments I've seen relate to the same things that CO have already gone some way to addressing.

A perfect example being the airport:

The main detail I'm missing from the airport are hangars. They'd fit really well to the side of the terminal. Just 2 hangars and some tarmac that leads to it would fill out the airport and make it feel more real.

That said, the airport still needs LOTS of work... Please pay attention to details, they don't take much time to do, but it elevates the realism in tenfold. As per my previous posts:

- Runway/taxiway is still very small. Length and width.
- Distance between gates looks too small for a A380. Airport with 2 gates serving a A380?.. This termial is obviously a regional terminal, not even close to the size of a proper international terminal. So unless you plan on adding more terminals you'd need to make the terminal MUCH larger and with several hubs. Oh, and parking? Where is parking? Public transportation?
- Markings on runway are inaccurate. (no distance markers)
- Airport security? Fences? Runway-safety zone is completely missing.
- Runway/taxiway lighting is not complete.

I'm by no means saying that these comments are any less valid than any others (Please don't take offence), but it should be remembered that it's been made clear that this is an alpha build and things such as trees, markings, misc items etc are high-level detail that will be added much later in the development cycle. You wouldn't start fitting out your kitchen before the house has been built.

 

[kent87]

I think what is really necessary is a large railway station - central station, can be leading station (train come in and back) or through station - the train stops and goes further. Station can be also a transfer point with buses and metro

 

[Rabiosa]

At the risk of continuing an unwelcome debate; I'm not saying that at all. I'm sure the devs welcome all feedback, recommendations and ideas, otherwise they wouldn't be so active in the community. However it's somewhat irksome that the majority of the comments I've seen relate to the same things that CO have already gone some way to addressing.

A perfect example being the airport:

I'm by no means saying that these comments are any less valid than any others (Please don't take offence), but it should be remembered that it's been made clear that this is an alpha build and things such as trees, markings, misc items etc are high-level detail that will be added much later in the development cycle. You wouldn't start fitting out your kitchen before the house has been built.

I don't think you get the point of constructive criticism, all that we are doing is providing our opinions so the devs can see and hopefully improve before it's too late. If all that was ever said was "everything is perfect" then hoping things would change, you'd end up with something you didn't want because the devs thought that they were on the right track. We are just trying to communicate what we do and don't like. What's so wrong with that? The devs are more than happy to receive community feedback and criticism is part of that.

 

[TotalyMoo]

Thanks for all the great feedback so far

 

[SimNation]

Guys, let's not forget this is all Alpha. Not final buildings and such. Let's focus on the features :3

 

[Taffy.]

With regards to the import and export of goods from the city, when we have roads, freight rail and cargo docks all present in a city how will the proportion of goods allocated to each be determined? Is there an economic consideration within the simulation?

 

[Bautz]

Will the commuters switch Vehicles? Did not hear anything about it (and I really hope so).

 

[CalPolyFan]

5- Freight trainstations should link with freight harbours. Even if there is simply no need for freight to share "Hubs" it would be visually pleasing to have it look like a ship unloads cargo and trains come and pick it up.


Great points you brought up! I agree with all of it.

Turning radius for train tracks has to be very slight, or it won't be realistic. This will make the game more fun and will have a more believable feel and strategic rail laying element.

Hopefully there will be actual goods and cargo movement in the city regarding items being produced in factories, transported via road or rail, to it's ultimate destination, or brough to your port if you happen to have one.

Strategic use of heavy rail should be very important, just like it was in SimCity 4.

If CO does this right, and does the transportation right, and tries to make this game REALISTIC. They will have a hugely successful game. If it becomes too cartoony and ridiculously not like real life with tiny airports, tiny farms, and trains that can turn on a dime we are in trouble.

One final thing, the cost to construct bridges that are goofy as heck (like in the trailer) should be astronomical compared to regular roads, like it is in real life.

This will guarantee:

1. More realistic city development (people can cheat of course if they want, but this is for the core game).
2. More realistic simulation of actual costs in reality.
3. Less "sandbox" and more real life decision making in city building.

When it costs nothing to make a crazy bridge over a river.. people will build goofy stuff, but if that same bridge cost is multiplied X100 like it would be in real life, people start making much more realistic decisions in what kind of bridge to build, how long, and where instead of just throwing something down knowing they can bulldoze it if they don't like it down the road and rebuild because it's all so cheap.

 

[outohyypio]

I'll try not to waste too much time on already well discussed matters but I do have to say that the brightness of those screenshots hurts my eys.

Now that that's out of the way, I, too, think that separation between metro and train track is unnecessary assuming you are going to figure out how to make tunnels work. This doesn't mean metro and passenger trains have to be the same thing. Metros can be better for local transport and trains for longer distances, with differences in, for example, acceleration and top speed as Periy said.

Also, size of airports and such are not just a matter of visual realism. Location of the airport should be a strategic decision, where one has to take into account connections to the city, noise pollution but also the area it takes from other developement. This applies to all structures that are big in reality.

 

[TheDorne]

Yeah Cities Skylines definitely needs a central station.

 

[Sinname]

I don't like metro entrance at all, strange and ugly as well.
Airports and seaports are too small, this is unrealistic and I don't know why you've made it this way because maps in Cities: Skyline are big enough
for bigger airports and seaports but, anyway... Still love this game
Keep up the good work!

 

[charlesnew]

Thanks for a new dev diary! I'm getting more and more exited for the game! I just hope that in the future they can add modular airports and harbours.

 

[kovak]

One idea,
we know the 'basic buildings basic' is good for 'normal first travel players' but the old players of build games like have the possibility of costomization of the transports lots (airports and train places is the best examples). So, can make a possibility to modders make a custon airports and ports and train stations? Ok, is good have the 'basic' but we dont want just a basic things.
We want expand, make a big ports, a big airports, a complex ones too, the diferents railways, conections, this all things have in a real city, not just basic places called 'airport' but looks like a toy airport.

So, please please please, you all make a GREAT work in CIM2 in transport, we know you all dont want a only-transport administration game for skyline BUT use the best things in constructions options CIM2 like differents bus stops, bus-exclusive-roads, this all things.
And permit a construction of metros in updase and down, stations on top and on floor, i like the cities in motion 1 metro stations because looks like real not just a entrance and the random plataform. Its more limited but is more beautiful.

 

[dj97]

Bus and metro network is for inner city transport

Does this mean there won't be any tourist buses?
Also, can we change the color theme of our transit vehicles?

By the way, great dev diary, guys! ^_^

 

[WarOnCarbs]

Just want to plus one the above feedback.

The train stations look good, airports and sea ports are small and the buildings need more life, hangars, towers, garages, etc.

I think the buses look like they're for a very highwealth city where many citizens take the bus. In the US, most cities have filthy dinosaurs for buses. Maybe the buses should be become more modern the higher funding is.

 

[Goldiva]

Happy to see passenger and cargo options for train and ships. (But not for air?)

Some suggestions on track-sharing (open rails not a new concept in transport sims) are also interesting. Say metro sharing tracks with trams or inner city light rail, which happens in RL. Track-sharing is not a "must have" for me though, more like a "interesting how it impacts on gameplay" kind of thing.

Reading through the feedback, sounds to me like Size Options will cover most expectations. Specifically, size options in

- metro/ depot/ airport/ seaport LOT sizes (and tweak-able capacity)
- metro/ bus/ train/ plane/ ship VEHICLE sizes (and tweak-able capacity)

Modular airports and seaport ideas are great, but I'm fine with these as DLCs or mini-addons, as these are labor-intensive stuff. There should at least be bigger airport/ seaport and varying size public transport lots options at launch.