What are people's thoughts on the new DLC robes?

[zenstar]

Yes. And Also I think they are actually testing waters in sense of witnessing player reaction on these "Variant Playstyle" robes. As we can see it already divides people.
Talking about "Priest" as support. Could actually work well for support class to have extra power on healing spells and only lower spell power for arcane. (and there for have some power against undead and less power with your usual beams, etc.)

I'd like to see support getting a healing bonus. And I think people are only divided when it comes to PVP. Even then I think it's only because the rogue is so new and noone is sure what the weaknesses are. But a little experience and a little practice and a little tweaking and I'm sure things will balance out

 

[unmerged(276509)]

None of the robes are purely aesthetic. All of them have something about them even if it's just new weapons.

All the previous robes were just a cosmetic enhancement... or do you think that the staff that gives +1 of damage can make any difference from the vanilla? or the bugs? or the samurai sword that ignore armor?

The rogue has super low HP. He may have some awesome abilities but he is soft and squishy.

but he can move faster, teleport and poison you from a distance... who cares for the low hp if the enemy can't hit you.

Is this the only robes you have an issue with?
If you really think they're unbalanced then come up with ideas to balance things.
If enough people say they're unbalanced then the devs will jiggle the numbers *wink*

my "idea" would be not to SELL something that gives an advantage in game. Now, however, it's too late to propose something, since people have already paid for the DLC and it's very unlikely that the devs would dare to change something.
Nonetheless i wanted to let them know that some player(s) don't support this way of developing. Also this is a slippery slope: next DLC could be something that doubles Hps or damage...

 

[zenstar]

All the previous robes were just a cosmetic enhancement... or do you think that the staff that gives +1 of damage can make any difference from the vanilla? or the bugs? or the samurai sword that ignore armor?

I'm thinking that anything over vanilla robes is more than a cosmetic enhancement. For example: the resivior pistol, the M16, the grenades, the bug staff, the resistance boosting bamboo staff. All not just cosmetic. Every robe has a (sometimes slight) advantage.

but he can move faster, teleport and poison you from a distance... who cares for the low hp if the enemy can't hit you.

Maybe he could use some balancing, but I don't think he's that overpowered. If the poison is getting to you throw on a life ward or just do a quick self heal to cure. He can only teleport every now and then (standard staff recharge speed) so you can catch him after a teleport. To counteract fast movement use ice shards. They spread and with his low health even 1 shard hitting is a huge chunk. If he really is a problem they will balance him.

my "idea" would be not to SELL something that gives an advantage in game. Now, however, it's too late to propose something, since people have already paid for the DLC and it's very unlikely that the devs would dare to change something.
Nonetheless i wanted to let them know that some player(s) don't support this way of developing. Also this is a slippery slope: next DLC could be something that doubles Hps or damage...

It's unlikely that they'll sell something with an intentional advantage. That's a straw man argument. I'd rather they kept mixing it up and selling things with different advantages and disadvantages to make the game more interesting.
As long as the devs keep balance in mind (which they do) then there's no real issue here.
And there are already robes that massively reduce damage: the tank. But he's balanced.

I have yet to face a rogue in PVP. I only played a little bit of PVP but if the robes were as broken as you claim then every PVP game would have had someone in rogue robes. I still think it's just something we haven't learnt to deal with yet and once we do he'll be the first to die.

Keep playing and post your views here. If enough people have the same view the devs will tweak it I'm sure

 

[unmerged(276509)]

I'm thinking that anything over vanilla robes is more than a cosmetic enhancement. For example: the resivior pistol, the M16, the grenades, the bug staff, the resistance boosting bamboo staff. All not just cosmetic. Every robe has a (sometimes slight) advantage.

I've played some more, you're right about the vietnam robe and the reservoir (although this last one is free at least), but survival kit, bug and samurai robes are equal to the vanilla one.

Maybe he could use some balancing, but I don't think he's that overpowered.

You're missing the point... let's say that even the rogue is balanced, but the fact is that in a PvP game you cannot SELL something that gives advantages, even with drawbacks. Just think why they don't do something like this in MW2 or Bad company 2 or others typical PvP games... in a PvP game everyone should start equal and the skill should make the difference, not the money.

It's unlikely that they'll sell something with an intentional advantage. That's a straw man argument. I'd rather they kept mixing it up and selling things with different advantages and disadvantages to make the game more interesting.
As long as the devs keep balance in mind (which they do) then there's no real issue here.

well i hope too they didn't do it on porpouse, and i appreciate the fact that they keep adding things to the game; just keep selling maps, releasing patches but don't charge me for having my wizard improved

 

[zenstar]

I've played some more, you're right about the vietnam robe and the reservoir (although this last one is free at least), but survival kit, bug and samurai robes are equal to the vanilla one.

The bug robes are better than vanilla becaus of the bugs. It may not be powerful but it's better than nothing. The samurai robes come with a resistance staff and a sword that ignores armour. They may not be powerful but they are still more powerful than the vanilla robes (just not much). The survival kit is basically just a reskin (+1 damage is nothing) but all robes are basically better than vanilla robes.

You're missing the point... let's say that even the rogue is balanced, but the fact is that in a PvP game you cannot SELL something that gives advantages, even with drawbacks. Just think why they don't do something like this in MW2 or Bad company 2 or others typical PvP games... in a PvP game everyone should start equal and the skill should make the difference, not the money.

Balanced means it has no advantage over any other thing without being disadvantaged to the same degree thereby cancelling out the advantage. For example: if there were some robes that halved damage taken from fire but doubled damage taken from water then they'd probably be pretty balanced and noone would complain about them. The rogue robes may be fast and have poison but you touch the rogue with a feather and they die. I think they're pretty balanced and 2 equally skilled players (one in rogue robes and one in any other robes) will most likely get a 1:1 kill ratio against the other person.

well i hope too they didn't do it on porpouse, and i appreciate the fact that they keep adding things to the game; just keep selling maps, releasing patches but don't charge me for having my wizard improved

Lots of people like getting new robes. They change the way the game gets played and make it fun. I'm pretty sure they won't release anything intentionally overpowered and if people keep complaining about the robes then maybe they'll add a way to disallow certain robes, but there are not many complaints about the rogue yet.

 

[unmerged(276509)]

I don't have time for this, so i'll be brief: you're still missing the point, wich is (and i quote myself) "in a PvP game everyone should start equal and the skill should make the difference, not the money. "

 

[zenstar]

I don't have time for this, so i'll be brief: you're still missing the point, wich is (and i quote myself) "in a PvP game everyone should start equal and the skill should make the difference, not the money. "

And you're not getting what I am saying: If everything is balanced then the only defining factor is skill. If the rogue robes are balanced then they didn't get an advantage by paying for it.
I'd rather have a load of different robes allowing everyone to play slightly differently as long as all those robes are balanced. If they are balanced then the only difference between players is skill.

 

[whitebear]

I know it's very unlike magicka but just throwing the idea around:
Add balanced character modification system. Something very similar that Section 8: Prejudice has.
Make robes just appearance (minor money tranactions) and make the Items and Base character modifications separate public part (free).
Every player may add what ever features to their wizard they like but use balanced point system to do so, Along with starting gear.

-Changeable attributes-
Starting weapon: Points needed to be spent to add anything better than normal sword. Worse weapons give points instead.
Starting staff: Points needed to be spent to add anything better than normal Staff. Negative effect staff give points instead.
Speed: from 1 to 10 (default being 5)
Health: divided per 100 units from 100 to 5000
Armour: not sure how armour levels actually work in the game but w/e
Also all other perk like stuff that can be added... but ye.. you get the idea...

 

[unmerged(276509)]

And you're not getting what I am saying: If everything is balanced then the only defining factor is skill. If the rogue robes are balanced then they didn't get an advantage by paying for it.
I'd rather have a load of different robes allowing everyone to play slightly differently as long as all those robes are balanced. If they are balanced then the only difference between players is skill.

really i think you're not reading. I wrote everyone should start EQUAL. not balanced, EQUAL.
Think about MW2 or another fps. the sniper kills with one shot but it's "easy" to kill because it has reduced sight. Balanced right? at least until the pro takes it and exploits its pros, making it an efficient owning machine. this however it's not an issue because everyone can take that class, and is welcomed to try and see if he has the skill to use it properly.

In magicka this simply cannot happen... i can take the vietnam robe and snipe from the distance or throw a grenade, someone else could take the rogue and storm through the map at doubles speed (and dont keep talking about the low hp because right now in pvp everyone mostly uses one shot spells like DDDDD, so it doesn't matter if you have 400, 1000 or 2000 hp). The "newb" that has just bought the game can just use his vanilla robe and suck it up.
Is this equal? no, it isn't

 

[alicuza]

I know it's very unlike magicka but just throwing the idea around:
Add balanced character modification system. Something very similar that Section 8: Prejudice has.
Make robes just appearance (minor money tranactions) and make the Items and Base character modifications separate public part (free).
Every player may add what ever features to their wizard they like but use balanced point system to do so, Along with starting gear.

-Changeable attributes-
Starting weapon: Points needed to be spent to add anything better than normal sword. Worse weapons give points instead.
Starting staff: Points needed to be spent to add anything better than normal Staff. Negative effect staff give points instead.
Speed: from 1 to 10 (default being 5)
Health: divided per 100 units from 100 to 5000
Armour: not sure how armour levels actually work in the game but w/e
Also all other perk like stuff that can be added... but ye.. you get the idea...

God dude, you have such epic ideas

 

[zenstar]

really i think you're not reading. I wrote everyone should start EQUAL. not balanced, EQUAL.
Think about MW2 or another fps. the sniper kills with one shot but it's "easy" to kill because it has reduced sight. Balanced right? at least until the pro takes it and exploits its pros, making it an efficient owning machine. this however it's not an issue because everyone can take that class, and is welcomed to try and see if he has the skill to use it properly.

In magicka this simply cannot happen... i can take the vietnam robe and snipe from the distance or throw a grenade, someone else could take the rogue and storm through the map at doubles speed (and dont keep talking about the low hp because right now in pvp everyone mostly uses one shot spells like DDDDD, so it doesn't matter if you have 400, 1000 or 2000 hp). The "newb" that has just bought the game can just use his vanilla robe and suck it up.
Is this equal? no, it isn't

You obviously feel very strongly about this. Perhaps if enough people want this they will implement a way to restrict robes. Personally I'd rather have different robes and playstyles to make it interesting.
If you look at an FPS often there are differences between characters (many have classes). To take your ideas and apply it to the sniper example: Everyone in the FPS should have the same weapon and not be able to get another weapon. That way they are equal all the time. In my eyes that'd be a pretty boring PVP. I prefer the variety of games that allow you to play in all sorts of different ways.

Either way I think we have a difference of opinion and it looks like niether of us will convince the other. Petition your idea to Arrowhead (make a suggestion thread and see what support you get) and if it's viable I'm sure the devs will look at it, or at least explain their thoughts on the issue.

@whitebear: Would be a very interesting system

 

[unmerged(276509)]

Personally I'd rather have different robes and playstyles to make it interesting.

I'm not against this, not at all.

If you look at an FPS often there are differences between characters (many have classes). To take your ideas and apply it to the sniper example: Everyone in the FPS should have the same weapon and not be able to get another weapon. That way they are equal all the time. In my eyes that'd be a pretty boring PVP. I prefer the variety of games that allow you to play in all sorts of different ways.

The sniper example is perfect, without it it would be pretty boring. Luckily though everyone can choose it. From the start. Without paying for it.

I don't know if i can't express myself properly because of my bad english, but what i think would be right is to let everyone with the same possibilities, not to use the same class... or robe.
I don't care for a PvP full of vanilla robes, but i think it's right to give all the robes for everyone to choose from the start.

Edit: whitebear idea is indeed interesting and also gives all the players the same tools to create their wizard

 

[whitebear]

Btw... Anyone tried the Tank in vietnam? you are actually immortal againt all automatic guns except the massive troll guns. Semi-automatic rifles, RPG's and mortars can still damage you but generally it's piece of cake to go through this with tank. You can accomplish same with RQRQRQDE armour

 

[alicuza]

Btw... Anyone tried the Tank in vietnam? you are actually immortal againt all automatic guns except the massive troll guns. Semi-automatic rifles, RPG's and mortars can still damage you but generally it's piece of cake to go through this with tank. You can accomplish same with RQRQRQDE armour

Only you move like a turtle on it's back.

 

[Xuhybrid]

I think the Support robes are largely useless. If the tank moves at 30% speed, i think its too slow.