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Werewolf CX: Do Cylons dream of Electric Sheep?

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You need an underwater lighthouse?
 
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My memory is perfectly fine, and I'd pushed for a lynch of Adamus at the very early stages of the game even, when you were targeting euro. Which started the trend of having him run up every day iirc. You can find it around your last link.
I said false, because it is false. You could have tied AoK with Adamus, and tried to, but your vote did not kill him.
 
snoopdogg said:
My memory is perfectly fine, and I'd pushed for a lynch of Adamus at the very early stages of the game even, when you were targeting euro. Which started the trend of having him run up every day iirc. You can find it around your last link.
I said false, because it is false. You could have tied AoK with Adamus, and tried to, but your vote did not kill him.
Click to expand...

Firstly, you still haven't explained why I'd publicly ask why AOK's not dead if I had help. Because you can't.

Anyway you didn't even vote for Adamus yesterday, which makes you a hypocrite. Any suggestion that I didn't want Adamus dead relies on some grassy-knoll-secret-sniper theory that has absolutely no basis in evidence. Meanwhile, we know for a fact you didn't vote Adamus. It speaks for itself.

If Adamus was a sorcerer for a pack I was in I'd have killed him outright, not tied him. What does tying him achieve? Then I look suspicious because I tied a villager with a sorcerer and enable the sort of muddy thinking you specialize in. I'd have put him ahead by two votes and got credit for ensuring his death; Capt. Kiwi in Lite CCVI voted to put his packmate Hebelecan out ahead by two votes and people wrote him off the list of likely wolves as a result. The village often makes poor conclusions like that, you can guarantee I'd take advantage of it.

But oh, what if AOK was a scanned wolf from the other pack? Well then I could have made a fake JL announcement to save Adamus.

There's absolutely no way it makes sense for me to tie AOK and Adamus if I'm a wolf. It's the dubious gain of 1 extra villager dead for likely 1 wolf dead. Absolutely no point. Any scenario in which he's scanned and I'm not just operating on instinct makes even less sense than your bog-standard efforts - and that's saying something.

That you pushed for Adamus lynch early on doesn't exonerate you: he could have started out unaligned which would explain your serious change in attitude. Someone slipping away repeatedly isn't a good reason not to vote for them, it's a good reason to vote for them because it suggests people are trying to save them. It's far more plausible that Adamus was an unaligned sorc who joined your pack, explaining your backwards defense that repeated slipping away from the lynch is innocent, than any Evidence Free Zone idea that I wanted to save Adamus.
 
Vainglory said:
Firstly, you still haven't explained why I'd publicly ask why AOK's not dead if I had help. Because you can't.
I never suggested you had help.
Anyway you didn't even vote for Adamus yesterday, which makes you a hypocrite. Any suggestion that I didn't want Adamus dead relies on some grassy-knoll-secret-sniper theory that has absolutely no basis in evidence. Meanwhile, we know for a fact you didn't vote Adamus. It speaks for itself.
Your (accidental) vote for Adamus changed nothing. It is not suspicious. It also does nothing to exonerate you.
If Adamus was a sorcerer for a pack I was in I'd have killed him outright, not tied him. What does tying him achieve? Then I look suspicious because I tied a villager with a sorcerer and enable the sort of muddy thinking you specialize in. I'd have put him ahead by two votes and got credit for ensuring his death; Capt. Kiwi in Lite CCVI voted to put his packmate Hebelecan out ahead by two votes and people wrote him off the list of likely wolves as a result. The village often makes poor conclusions like that, you can guarantee I'd take advantage of it.
Obviously though, I wouldn't. I would make a blatant half-arsed appeal near the deadline to start looking at new candidates.

But oh, what if AOK was a scanned wolf from the other pack? Well then I could have made a fake JL announcement to save Adamus.
I'm 12 and what is this? How in the world would you know that he was scanned in this fantasy scenario?
There's absolutely no way it makes sense for me to tie AOK and Adamus if I'm a wolf. It's the dubious gain of 1 extra villager dead for likely 1 wolf dead. Absolutely no point. Any scenario in which he's scanned and I'm not just operating on instinct makes even less sense than your bog-standard efforts - and that's saying something.
Ad hominem.

That you pushed for Adamus lynch early on doesn't exonerate you: he could have started out unaligned which would explain your serious change in attitude. Someone slipping away repeatedly isn't a good reason not to vote for them, it's a good reason to vote for them because it suggests people are trying to save them. There are terrific reasons not to keep voting the next candidate down the vote list each day. New candidates mean new information. Also, this can lead to a domino effect that is easily exploited by wolves. Especially in lite, but also big. Even though Adamus turned out to be a sorc, it's still very unlikely anyone was trying to save him early on.
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You want to know why I'd like to see you lynched most? Because trying to kill the 'manipulators' and rely on dazzling 'pure reason' at every turn will wind up the same way almost every time. With a mindless village being eaten. AoK, euro, etc., all the good players will always be 'manipulating' the village in any way they can find that works. The 2/3rds of the time they're goodies, they'll be manipulating it into playing a hell of a lot better. Your snipe attempt on AoK was fail, whether he happens to turn out bad in this game or not.
 
Snoopdogg say what you will about my reasoning, you don't use it at all. Either I knew AOK was a wolf, or I didn't. Those are axiomatically the only options. If I don't know he's a wolf then if I am a wolf there's no reason to try tie him, it just endangers me when I can say "Oh look I ensured the sorc's death" instead. That's the sort of thing I'd do because it's sensible, whereas I you're more likely to just try talk everyone out of it because they've jumped when you've said jump before in this game.

If you say I didn't have help then it follows that I wanted Adamus dead. Unlike you. You did not want Adamus dead. There's no escaping this. You defended a sorc, I was all for lynching him.

As for scanning - Adamus was a sorc. Therefore it's possible he's fed scan results to me, except that if he'd scanned opposing wolves we'd have fake JL outed them. The option has to be mentioned, though, because it helps highlight how absurd the idea is that a wolf would tie an unknown with their own sorc.

If someone repeatedly survives the lynch then it suggests they've been helped and consequently we should lynch them. You cannot fail to understand this. Going for new candidates each day early in the game is fine, I have supported that method before, but if a candidate goes up repeatedly then that strategy isn't being strictly followed anyway and departing from it to find out whether there's a reason this person has survived repeatedly is totally valid. Contrary to what you say (without explaining) wolves can exploit it if we ignore players who repeatedly avoid the lynch, by running up and then running down their packmates. Then we won't even bother lynching them for many days, if we strictly lynch new candidates. It's worth mentioning also that you advocate randomly swapping candidates, which defeats the purpose of methodically selecting new candidates each day because the vote data we could gain from that approach is hopelessly confused by your last minute thrashing around.

AOK was legendary before his hiatus for being an expert manipulator of the village as a wolf. The last game where I saw any manipulation of the village was CVII in which AOK partly controlled the village and turned out to be a wolf. And the village lost. Contrast with more methodical games like CCIV, CCV, and CCVI in which the wolves all lost and there was no "people's justice league" wildly declaring new lynch targets out of left field on no evidence and getting people killed.

You say the village should just blindly follow manipulators which would make them mindless. I hardly think I should listen to what you, EURO, or AOK says just because you think you've got it all worked out. I said at the time that EURO's random selection of Drxav as a lynch target could easily have backfired and hit a good role. You didn't listen and you got our seer lynched in the Lite. Thanks for proving my point. If we lynch a good role because we legitimately suspect that's unfortunate but it had to happen, this game is about pursuing suspicious players. If we're playing Pin The Lynch on the Hapless Player then killing a seer was pointless because we didn't suspect them.

To some degree I don't have a problem with people utilizing bizarre strategies like EURO did, because the village prefers to kill methodical people, or else the wolves get them (Kiwi's suffered from this a few times). So if you want to survive it's usually a good idea to act like a fool. On the other hand, if you throw up a flag for me pursuing this strategy I will try to get you killed - otherwise wolves can just camouflage themselves and get away with all sorts of things because we give a free pass to erratic players.
 
Drunk votecount is durnk
less than an hours remaining



Vainglory (5) - Trinitrotoluen, Ciry, AOK, EL, Snoopdogg
AOK (4) - reis91, Bagricula, Falc, Boris
Boris (2) - Steed, Kingepyon
TnT (2) - Jacob the flob, Vain


Missed one vote: Ciryandor, Bagricula, Steed

Me is a bit drunk.
 
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