Weltkriegschaft

[TheHyphenated1]

My, my! What a firestorm we have ignited...


trekaddict (1) - Thanks!

Kurt_Steiner - They do too!

El Pip (1) - Again you confuse the mention of something with it's being pulled off flawlessly. Although admittedly this isn't far from the truth when rolling over the Low Countries, surely you credit hardy Britons with putting up more of a fight than Belgians taken by surprise in the wee hours of the morning! But if reading the word Ireland was the last straw, I hope we can part as friends. Maybe I'll PM you when things go wrong for Germany .

Enewald - o. Just wait 'till I get my hands on Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen...

Kidding :rofl:.

trekaddict (2) - You're writing about the British, though, so you're not fighting an uphill battle with him .

El Pip (2) - All five points are quite true. HKK and OKM made the decision in early summer not to even try to complete a program of infantry landing craft for the very reasons you mention. They're pretty much going in with designs they already have -- which although present by now in sufficient quantities, are quite vulnerable as you mention. The air over the channel is now effectively clear, so we will see the fortunes of any invasion hinging on how long and to what degree the RN can be kept away from invasion areas. I would remind you, though, that a number of the factors which weighed heavily against the success of a 1940 invasion are not in play here at all. A very risky gamble? Absolutely. But I don't think any more than a July 1940 invasion OTL.

Slaughts - Thanks for not assuming that anything mentioned automatically succeeds at 100% .

dublish - Mad? Oh, blarney . The British captured the SS Bremen at the very start of the war.

 

[TheHyphenated1]

Any more guesses at the identities of the Wing Commander and Dutch Major?

Surely you're not all just going to let Slaughts run away with it !

 

[El Pip]

A very risky gamble? Absolutely. But I don't think any more than a July 1940 invasion OTL.

As any July 1940 invasion would be suicide (3knot Rhine Barges! The bloody tides would kill them.) any invasion should be slaughtered by the Channel long before the RN even knows its been launched.

However this is Germany is das besten! Thus I fully expect to see a fully successful invasion, probably powered by the Fuhrers solar powered arsehole, complete with German sailors throwing rocks at passing battleships and sinking them.

A shame really; given the work you seem to be putting into researching into everything else it seems a shame to piss it all away on Sea Lion. If nothing else I would like to remind you; Just because the game engine lets you do something doesn't mean you should.

 

[TheHyphenated1]

Now, now .


Heliokinetic sphincters aside, here's what that comment referred to...

By no means an exhaustive list, of course.


1940 Real Life

Con:
Lack of dedicated assault craft.
Luftwaffe does not have anything approaching total air superiority.
RN concentrated in Home Waters.
RN capital ships have heavier anti-aircraft capabilities.
RN capital ships enhanced by radar.
British Army weakened, but massed at home.
Winston Churchill is PM.
HM Government believes modern air power weak vs. capital ships.
Kriegsmarine weakened as fleet-in-being by Norway.
RN has many modern destroyers and light craft.
Chain Home radar in place.
Coastal defenses weak, but strengthening fast.
Minesweeping techniques advanced.

Pro:
Submarine arm is strong.
Luftwaffe has advanced monoplanes.
Heer is very strong.
Germany has considerable tonnage for resupply.
BEF equipment lost.
British military morale medium-low.


1936 Weltkriegschaft

Pro:
Lack of dedicated assault craft. EDIT: But no fewer than 1940.
Luftwaffe has nearly total air superiority.
RN concentrated in Mediterranean theater.
RN capital ships have less anti-aircraft capability, although marginally so.
RN capital ships still largely reliant on WWI detection methods.
British Army strong but deployed in the Mediterranean and the colonies.
Stanley Baldwin is PM.
HM Government terrified of modern air power.
Kriegsmarine not damaged, but has fewer total heavy units.
RN has considerably fewer destroyers and light craft.
No Chain Home radar in place.
Coastal defenses weak, but strengthening steadily.
Minesweeping techniques less advanced.

Con:
Submarine arm is weak.
Luftwaffe has no advanced monoplanes.
Heer is strong, but considerably behind 1940.
Germany has less tonnage for strategic resupply.
BEF equipment was never lost.
British military morale medium.

 

[Shadow Master]

Long time reader/lurker, and occasional poster.

As any July 1940 invasion would be suicide (3knot Rhine Barges! The bloody tides would kill them.) any invasion should be slaughtered by the Channel long before the RN even knows its been launched.

However this is Germany is das besten! Thus I fully expect to see a fully successful invasion, probably powered by the Fuhrers solar powered arsehole, complete with German sailors throwing rocks at passing battleships and sinking them.

A shame really; given the work you seem to be putting into researching into everything else it seems a shame to piss it all away on Sea Lion. If nothing else I would like to remind you; Just because the game engine lets you do something doesn't mean you should.

:rofl: I have to say this is one of my favorite AAR's, and quite a bit different than anything I could write.

What we should all keep in mind is that this very involved work of fiction exists for our entertainment, and is, after all, not based on what historically happened in OTL, but what happened in one particular 1936 Germany game of HoI2 where things started going a historically right off the bat. HoI2 doesn't handle amphibious invasions well at all (the only thing that it fails worse at, IMHO, is the UK's home defense against one) but this is just a flaw in the game itself, and not a flaw in the story of what happened when the game was played.

I wish there was a way to make the UK ai do a proper job of defending the home isles (or even better, a mod or patch or something that got us a new unit type - assault craft) so that the whole amphibious invasion aspect of the game could be done better. What good are cargo ships and passenger liners going to do in an amphibious landing? I understand the games scale is not really conductive for going so in depth, but I can still wish.

Now, now .
Pro:
Lack of dedicated assault craft.

Shouldn't that be under the 'con' part?

A most excellent and entertaining AAR sir! I wish to extend my thanks for a magnificent job very well done. I greatly appreciate your massive investment in time and skill in developing such a compelling work of fiction from the scanty basis of a HoI2 save game! I must say I have really enjoyed the updates (if not the wait for them now that I an 'current' in my reading), and just wanted to congratulate you and encourage you to continue.

The only thing I would like to see (besides more, of course) is a bit more continuity in the many plot lines you have developed. What I mean is, can we get some tiny bits on people featured in previous updates? I am thinking in terms of a character hearing a radio broadcast, or a conversation from an adjoining table in a publc cafe, reading a telegram or newspaper or some such convention that gives a bit of closure or 'forget me not' type of thing for characters that played a bit part and are done, or will re-appear at a later time.

If such a request would entail to much additional effort, please simply toss it aside and continue in your current, (and much appreciated), fashion.

Thanks again!

 

[TheHyphenated1]

Shadow Master - Splendid to hear from you, and thank you most sincerely for the compliments!

I wish there was a way to make the UK ai do a proper job of defending the home isles (or even better, a mod or patch or something that got us a new unit type - assault craft) so that the whole amphibious invasion aspect of the game could be done better. What good are cargo ships and passenger liners going to do in an amphibious landing? I understand the games scale is not really conductive for going so in depth, but I can still wish.

I can say that having read some of the cabinet papers, the AI manages to do some uncannily realistic things in the situations I put it in. I hope you'll share my wonder at these forthcoming moments of awe at unexpected brilliance. As for the other moments, well, I've still got Stanley Baldwin to blame, haven't I . Cargo ships and passenger lines are good if you have an intact port, that's what! We'll be hearing more about these discussions in upcoming updates, of course, but it boils down to this -- HKK knows that if it can't get intact ports quickly the invasion will fail. Rhine barges have their place, but they're not nearly fast enough to sustain an invasion for long without a port. More on that later!

Shouldn't that be under the 'con' part?

I suppose so o. I guess I was using each one of the points contrasted with its opposite. So even though lack of dedicated assault craft is a con in 1940, Germany literally has no fewer in 1936 which is a relative advantage. Sorry for the confusion.

The only thing I would like to see (besides more, of course) is a bit more continuity in the many plot lines you have developed. What I mean is, can we get some tiny bits on people featured in previous updates? I am thinking in terms of a character hearing a radio broadcast, or a conversation from an adjoining table in a publc cafe, reading a telegram or newspaper or some such convention that gives a bit of closure or 'forget me not' type of thing for characters that played a bit part and are done, or will re-appear at a later time.

You make a sound request, Shadow Master. The reason you have not seen more of that so far bears a bit of explaining. As I have conceived them, the characters in the story are not extraordinary in the sense of being "characters" while other fictional people aren't. They just happen to be featured because of what their experiences add to the overall story, which is about Germany. Put another way, I don't include updates about Ernst Trommler or Martin Kappel or Rudolf Schwarzbeck out of any particular "interest" in the characters personally, but rather in what they can contribute to the larger story. For this reason, once they stop (whether temporarily or permanently) playing a role in the larger story, it's quite hard for me to include follow-up information on them without either bogging the narrative down or introducing rather blatantly literary "cheats". By "cheats" I mean that you might find it just a bit too much of a coincidence if Johann Mahler and Günther Taubert found themselves sharing a foxhole somewhere, or if Reinert happened to overhear a café conversation about another character simply because that person is another character in the story and readers want to hear about him. Reinert will only overhear the conversations that he "naturally" would in the real world of the story.

That said, I'll continue to look for ways to keep you informed and engaged with the ongoing stories of our many characters, and to keep a sense of how the many plot-lines tie together. Please don't hesitate to ask about any particular characters, though. I'll certainly try to work their stories into updates where possible, and where it's not possible, I'm usually happy to explain in replies to comments.

Thanks again for your kind words and continued readership!

 

[El Pip]

or introducing rather blatantly literary "cheats".

So you won't use literary cheats but are quite happy to exploit the AI and game engine to launch an impossible invasion?

I'm sure there is some logic there I just don't see it. Hey ho, onward brothers! We will paint the world impossibly grey by every gamey exploit possible!

 

[TheHyphenated1]

I'm afraid I don't consider attempting an amphibious invasion of England to be a gamey exploit. Wiping out the RN with NAVs and then attempting an amphibious invasion of England, well maybe :rofl:. But I'm not doing that.

I'm afraid by your definition of possibility, the whole OTL war up until Stalingrad was pretty much one big impossibility .

And while I certainly respect your opinion in considering a successful invasion unlikely, I think that tarring it with a priori impossibility is certainly at odds with the estimations of the sharpest and seniormost military minds on both sides in those dark months. The prospect of the invasion was quite real to men such as Alanbrooke and Churchill, who considered it not an impossibility but a probability. If you have information that would have allowed them peaceful sleep through the middle and late months of 1940, I'd be most interested.

 

[El Pip]

I'm afraid by your definition of possibility, the whole OTL war up until Stalingrad was pretty much one big impossibility.

You are confusing land operations with naval ones. The two are about as different as it is possible to get. Germany had plenty of doctrine, troops and tanks, thus could obviously go a conquering anywhere dry. She didn't have any landing craft, merchant marine or support ships so couldn't do anything wet.

As has been discussed before, an invasion was only considered likely because Britain did not have all the facts. I fully accept that at the time it would have seen probable. However in hindsight it clearly was impossible. Ignoring everything else, any invasion that depends on 3knot flat bottomed barges that can't work in anything worse is going to end in tears.

On the gamey exploit side, Britain would never have utterly stripped the nation of all planes, ships and men as it has done in this AAR (Everything appears to be in the Med from your descriptions). You can't have it both ways, if people think an invasion is possible they would defend the home islands. The AI doesn't because it's an idiot, a stupidity your are exploiting.

 

[TheHyphenated1]

You are confusing land operations with naval ones. The two are about as different as it is possible to get. Germany had plenty of doctrine, troops and tanks, thus could obviously go a conquering anywhere dry. She didn't have any landing craft, merchant marine or support ships so couldn't do anything wet.

As has been discussed before, an invasion was only considered likely because Britain did not have all the facts. I fully accept that at the time it would have seen probable. However in hindsight it clearly was impossible. Ignoring everything else, any invasion that depends on 3knot flat bottomed barges that can't work in anything worse is going to end in tears.

Sea and land are of course different, but defeating nominally the world's most powerful army in a fortnight seemed impossible up until it actually happened. As to the second paragraph, I just think it's perhaps an exaggeration. From my understanding, post-war revelations have revealed that the British certainly overestimated German preparedness in June and July, when fears were at their peak, but have by no means conclusively ruled on the question.

On the gamey exploit side, Britain would never have utterly stripped the nation of all planes, ships and men as it has done in this AAR (Everything appears to be in the Med from your descriptions).

The Home Islands have hardly been stripped utterly. The RAF wasn't redeployed but rather beaten and neutered after a bloody but fair fight. The Army is mostly in the Med, but at least five divisions remain. The best ships are holding the line at Suez (I believe quite a well-supported choice, in terms of British thinking at the time), but whatever isn't is probably either in the Far East or, more likely, enforcing the Blockade. From various updates:

Routine bombing missions now often crossed the coastline unchallenged, having more or less free rein over Kent and parts of Essex, only meeting significant resistance if a particularly important target was threatened. Nonetheless, joint Abwehr and Luftwaffe estimates judged that ADGB was holding back a reserve strength of perhaps 75 working fighters and 150 bombers. Additionally, the report said, there were between 300 and 400 additional planes of all types in other commands throughout Britain. The holding back of these reserves suggested to HKK that the British were likely starting to envisage an impending invasion. -- (III:XXVIII)


“Yes, five divisions. Thus, the readiness of the British to repel an invasion can only be expected to increase dramatically as we delay. Therefore, it is my intention that England be invaded as soon as this would have a reasonable chance of success.” -- (III:III)


By evening on the twenty-fourth, six battleships had gathered under Fleet Admiral Pound’s command: Royal Sovereign, Royal Oak, Ramillies and Resolution, and the newer “Treaty Battleships” Nelson and Rodney. They were joined by three battlecruisers: Renown, which had been serving in the Mediterranean since May, and Hood and Repulse, which had steamed in haste from the North Sea to reinforce Pound’s fleet. Nine heavy cruisers -- six Counties and three of the earlier Hawkins class -- rounded out the big-gun units at the Fleet Admiral’s disposal. Out to sea were three aircraft carriers -- including the limping Furious, which had taken hits from an Italian cruiser in the Levant Sea -- whose air wings would be tasked with keeping Pact bombers at bay. Under cover of darkness, the largest fleet gathered in war since nineteen eighteen slipped into the Suez. -- (III:XXVII)

 

[TheHyphenated1]

Bonus photo:

Crew of the brand-new HMS Hero pose after sinking the U-21 as it tried to enter the Strait of Gibraltar and cross into the Mediterranean.

HKK watched with frustration as Italian gains of the past six months in East Africa evaporated -- and General Bastico proved unable to break his check west of the Suez Canal.

 

[unmerged(52692)]

It doesn't disturb you in the least that you are updating slower than real time, I hope?

 

[TheHyphenated1]

Yeah, it does, but short of devoting myself full time to this AAR full-time, there's not much I can do about that o.

Have you been reading this, Half There? If so, Welcome!

 

[Pwnzerfaust]

Love this AAR. Just caught up reading it. I'd be impressed if you managed to run the Channel with the Royal Navy still intact.

 

[volksmarschall]

Hmmm, Ireland aye? Well being Irish myself, I say you should liberate the Irish from British rule! Then you can laugh at the British from Belfast. Historically, there was support between the IRA and the Germans during WWII, but it never took off, one can only imagine what could have happened if British troops would have been deployed into Northern Ireland to fend off against IRA and IRA trained/backed German troops, or even German and IRA soldiers.

Your last update was extremely well done, especially with the German Troop trains. March on to victory!

 

[dublish]

HKK watched with frustration as Italian gains of the past six months in East Africa evaporated -- and General Bastico proven unable to break his check west of the Suez Canal.

I knew it was too good to be true.

 

[El Pip]

Hmmm, Ireland aye? Well being Irish myself, I say you should liberate the Irish from British rule!

If your Irish then you should know a majority of Northern Ireland really doesn't want to be 'liberated' (and in the 1930s it was an even larger majority) and would in fact fight tooth and claw against being invaded by a foreign power.

That said it would be quite amusing for a German/IRA invasion force to be repelled by Ulster Volunteer militias using the rifles Germany sent them in 1913.

 

[trekaddict]

That said it would be quite amusing for a German/IRA invasion force to be repelled by Ulster Volunteer militias using the rifles Germany sent them in 1913.

I second that, if only for the lulz.

 

[volksmarschall]

If your Irish then you should know a majority of Northern Ireland really doesn't want to be 'liberated' (and in the 1930s it was an even larger majority) and would in fact fight tooth and claw against being invaded by a foreign power.

That said it would be quite amusing for a German/IRA invasion force to be repelled by Ulster Volunteer militias using the rifles Germany sent them in 1913.

Indeed, the majority of Northern Ireland is Protestant, somewhere around a 6-4, or 7-3 margin, and they enjoy being part of the United Kingdom. But the majority of the minority want liberation, and the ultra-nationalist Catholic Irish want a united Ireland. In that case, the Protestants become the minority, which they don't want. I particularly don't support the IRA or her tactics, nor do I care much about a United Ireland as I'm American. I don't see a big problem with N. Ireland being part of the United Kingdom, but the ultranationalists do...

 

[darthkommandant]

I think that this Ireland adventure will end badly, most likely at the hands of the Royal Navy. Especially since the Luftwaffe has proven it self ineffective against ships in earlier updates. Besides i think a failed invasion of Ireland would make the story more interesting.