Top National Ideas

[brifbates]

Sorry my friend... It is not there for me (

I'm pretty sure you either have to be catholic or enact it before a certain date as my reformed Poland is also unable to see the decision.

I suppose it could be a crutch to make the NI more useful to Catholics as most are fairly stable and not overly large so stab costs aren't such a big deal. Particularly since few catholic nations have to westernise.

 

[Grubnessul]

http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Gilded_Iconography

 

[1alexey]

People panic too much about a little inflation and bank is vastly overrated. having your armies not killed (military drill) or getting merchants in all CoT is much more important. Bureaucracy seems quite useless to me as most of your income will be production or trade anyway.

Having a large army certainly would make it harder to kill.

Merchants in COT are useless, unless you have inflation reduction, which NB does provide.

Burocracy has some good events.

 

[ajsciri4]

I think inflation isn't too bad. You're fine as long as it doesn't get above 10%. It isn't really that bad if you have to pay 33 ducats for a building instead of 30. I haven't ever taken national bank.

 

[brifbates]

Having a large army certainly would make it harder to kill.

Merchants in COT are useless, unless you have inflation reduction, which NB does provide.

Burocracy has some good events.

1) not really, Ming and the Hordes always have large armies and yet they get mown down like the 18th fairway

2) not really, tech investment is a wonderful thing

3) true, I do like the Bureaucracy events

 

[1alexey]

National bank allows you to cash you monthly income, instead of living on the yearly tax.

Which is essential in early game when you always have more opportunities to use money than you actually have money.

Which basically means that National bank alone effectivly tripples(x3) you yearly income in case you do not have any other inflation reducing things(advisors, ex).

Also an advisor slot may be more usefull than an idea in the long run.

1) not really, Ming and the Hordes always have large armies and yet they get mown down like the 18th fairway

2) not really, tech investment is a wonderful thing

3) true, I do like the Bureaucracy events

1. Well, would having smaller armies make them any better? Point is, Drill is not as usefull as having x2 the opponent`s army, and the NB income comes really handy in having just that.
2. only if you`re not running ahead of time and actually have money to waiste, because buildings and army are more usefull in the long run. Anyway, in the early game you do not have money to both build full magistates income and acitvly expand into COT, unless you have inflation reduction to cash the trade income.

As i said NB can be not the most usefull thing after 100-200 years in the game, but for first 100 years, it is great, and IMO the most powerfull NI, maybe after Chuch Attendance Duty.

 

[brifbates]

National bank allows you to cash you monthly income, instead of living on the yearly tax.

Which is essential in early game when you always have more opportunities to use money than you actually have money.

Which basically means that National bank alone effectivly tripples(x3) you yearly income in case you do not have any other inflation reducing things(advisors, ex).

Also an advisor slot may be more usefull than an idea in the long run.

The biggest problem I have with NB is the negative event assosciated with it. For many nations, early in the game when NB shines a sudden 200 ducat drop is crippling and the +5% inflation alternative isn't all that great either. While the event is fairly rare, I have seen it hit twice in less than a year before (random chance is random) and that is just brutal.

In most cases I find using a MoM advisor is much preferable. Once you grow beyond a certain size there are a limited number of desirable advisor types anyway either due to availability or lack of real benefit.

 

[stnikolauswagne]

Exactly. MoM is at least equal to NB and they can be aquired around the same time. In the meantime you free up an early National Idea to either improve your military or ecconomy. And NB definitely does not allow you to have twice as big an army. NB does not improve your ecconomy at all. They free up .1 inflation per year in inflation free ducat. Thats it, you can go as high as 7-10% Inflation without risking big repercussions if you really want to.

 

[rustic]

People panic too much about a little inflation and bank is vastly overrated. having your armies not killed (military drill) or getting merchants in all CoT is much more important. Bureaucracy seems quite useless to me as most of your income will be production or trade anyway.

If you start as a mercantilist country it will be a while before trade or production becomes really important. Until then some more tax money isn't bad, but I agree that it isn't one of the stronger NI's (certainly not late game).

 

[1alexey]

In most cases I find using a MoM advisor is much preferable. Once you grow beyond a certain size there are a limited number of desirable advisor types anyway either due to availability or lack of real benefit.

the event is not good, but nothing else is bad about bank really.

a 5-6 LVL MOM advisor in the first 50 years of the game is not that often, and there are other types of advisors usefull(Diplomat, theolog if you conquer other religions(holy war is really handy), Ambasador, navigator, colonial growth, discipline, ex) in early game.

Exactly. MoM is at least equal to NB and they can be aquired around the same time. In the meantime you free up an early National Idea to either improve your military or ecconomy. And NB definitely does not allow you to have twice as big an army. NB does not improve your ecconomy at all. They free up .1 inflation per year in inflation free ducat. Thats it, you can go as high as 7-10% Inflation without risking big repercussions if you really want to.

Advisers can improve you not less than NI, especially in military. Also you only have 3 advisor slots, and way more for NIs.

Also what is the early NI that will boost you economy? the free traders can fill COTs without the need for idea, mercantilists will not even with idea.

NB allows you to cash 10% of your monthly income.

Considering the 1 jan income(yearly income) equals 1 month taxex, and NB gives you 10% *12 month of tax, production and trade, it easilly tripples what you would have without NB or NI. OR it doubles the effect of MOM, which is especially handy for small and poor nations if you want to expand fast, without neglecting your home.

Again, Military and Economical NIs can only give you a fraction of what you already have. NB allows you to get a huge income boost that will help you with everything.

 

[n0thin]

NB doesn't take an advisor slot and mid/lategame you will have far more NI-slots than advisor slots.
Also, while the event is quite nasty, it really bad, you mostly just have to take one loan. And there is a positive event (giving you 100), which will proc far more often in my experience. Both don't matter in lategame of course.
And if you really want to go havoc, having an MoM AND NB allows you, to field really large armies (or colonies or buildings or all together). This will set your research speed a little behind, but since you wont get so hard penalties, its not that bad, especially if you can just overrun enemies with higher tech (which won't happen in SP with inflation on anyway).

 

[sprites]

Sorry my friend... It is not there for me (

gilded iconography is only for catholic/orthodox religion
early game the best are either NTP or drill, depending on your position and goals.
CAd isn't that great early on (but enables gilded iconography in some countries) , later it can be great if you intend to westernize ou something that will cost you a lot of stability!
for colonizing , of course you'll want quest to discover the land earlier and get an increased range
In most cases , I prefer LOO to ventures , but you may want to take the two if you want to get all of the new world for yourself!

patron of arts is good , but i have terrible luck with the events ...

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Humm... i just forgot about engineers corps. But they are usefull enough only when you got cannons(plus it helps if you got possibly max defensiveness with this).

Reason why it helps at the time cannons come is obvious : engineers corps + full deffensiveness, is good in defence(+50% deffensivness altogether), and in offense(well it make possible to fort fall in first few months - if you got 3 siege general and 4 cannons per fort level). So it is must for any land country at gov tech of at least 11 and going to have cannons. At land tech 16 when you got fort level 2, it becomes pretty overpowered making enemy sieges and assaults pretty much failing(or taking so much casualities so high, it does not worth the price). With 5 star engineer, even 1st level fort, is hard thing to crack (as it got effective fort level 2).

 

[unmerged(37198)]

CAD should always be your first NI if you can get gilded iconography, and then instantly be changed ether for drill or national trade when you have the mentioned decision, if you start as a none latin tech nation that needs to move innovative, then patron should be your first NI

 

[Grubnessul]

Having a large army certainly would make it harder to kill.

Merchants in COT are useless, unless you have inflation reduction, which NB does provide.

Burocracy has some good events.

Military drill makes your army more cost efficient. With the new Man Power rules that's a godsend. Moreover, with drill you can kill rebels without upping your army maintenance a lot in peace time.

Merchants are great, their money increases your research greatly and allow you to maintain a much larger army. You could very well be right about the bureaucracy events though.

CAD should always be your first NI if you can get gilded iconography, and then instantly be changed ether for drill or national trade when you have the mentioned decision, if you start as a none latin tech nation that needs to move innovative, then patron should be your first NI

That's quite gamey.

 

[Memento Mori]

IMO, Military Drill always beats Grand Army, until +1 morale isn't that important. In early game, it increases morale from about 2 to 3, so your troops fight 50% longer - and you don't have to ruin yourself to actually have that large amount of units. So, it can be said that MD replaces having GA and an economy NI which would cover it's cost.

Later of course things change and the unit morale is high enough for the +1 to make little difference, but by then you already have more supply limit then you need.

I am also quite surprised that nobody mentioned the -1 infamy one (I think it was cabinet meetings)

 

[1alexey]

Military drill makes your army more cost efficient. With the new Man Power rules that's a godsend. Moreover, with drill you can kill rebels without upping your army maintenance a lot in peace time.

Merchants are great, their money increases your research greatly and allow you to maintain a much larger army. You could very well be right about the bureaucracy events though.

That's quite gamey.

NB allows you to pay for double the size of army.
Also it is very usefull outside wars, unlike MD.
NB>MD, end of the story.

Merchants are only good only when you can cash the trade money via inflation reduction. The tech inestment is good, but you effectivly pay your money to get better tech, instead of investing them in buildings, army, wars, diplomacy.

I am also quite surprised that nobody mentioned the -1 infamy one (I think it was cabinet meetings)

It comes so late, and it is such an obvious choice.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Well 1alexey, remember that if you trade heavily you can quickly make up to gov tech 9. Also, you can just get inflation. OR hire a mom.

 

[stnikolauswagne]

NB allows you to pay for double the size of army.
Also it is very usefull outside wars, unlike MD.

No! Look: You can generally pay for your army with the Income you get from your census, centra and MoM minting. By Army I mean an Army at 100% of your forcelimit. During peace you will be at 50% maintenance. If you go to war, yes, it might happen that you lose a bit of money, so you might need to mint for a few months. Thats .3 Inflation at max. You seem to think that inflation is an insta-killer while it simply isnt. National bank does not give you more money at all, it only reduces your inflation. And if a National Idea increases the growth of your ecconomy by more than .1% (which basically every trade idea does in one way or another) its simply better than NB. Military Ideas give you the benefit of being able to finish wars much, much quicker, giving you cheaper maintenance costs and thus, more money.

NB>MD, end of the story.

No.

Merchants are only good only when you can cash the trade money via inflation reduction. The tech inestment is good, but you effectivly pay your money to get better tech, instead of investing them in buildings, army, wars, diplomacy.

So you are basically telling that the ONLY thing that counts ingame is ducats. It simply isnt. Trade is neccesary to effectively tech and reach milestones like Land 18, Gov 10, Trade 7 etc. If you have a decent (100+ per month) trade income you can get more than 15 inflation free ducats per month in minting simply from decent centralization and a MoM.

 

[1alexey]

Well 1alexey, remember that if you trade heavily you can quickly make up to gov tech 9. Also, you can just get inflation. OR hire a mom.

The same inflation that will hold your goverment tech 9?

MoM is iflation reduction. Didn`t i said trade is very usefull IF you have that?

No! Look: You can generally pay for your army with the Income you get from your census, centra and MoM minting. By Army I mean an Army at 100% of your forcelimit. During peace you will be at 50% maintenance. If you go to war, yes, it might happen that you lose a bit of money, so you might need to mint for a few months. Thats .3 Inflation at max. You seem to think that inflation is an insta-killer while it simply isnt. National bank does not give you more money at all, it only reduces your inflation. And if a National Idea increases the growth of your ecconomy by more than .1% (which basically every trade idea does in one way or another) its simply better than NB. Military Ideas give you the benefit of being able to finish wars much, much quicker, giving you cheaper maintenance costs and thus, more money.

No.

So you are basically telling that the ONLY thing that counts ingame is ducats. It simply isnt. Trade is neccesary to effectively tech and reach milestones like Land 18, Gov 10, Trade 7 etc. If you have a decent (100+ per month) trade income you can get more than 15 inflation free ducats per month in minting simply from decent centralization and a MoM.

You also have other things to put money on. Army is not the only thing there. But Ok, be my guest.

You get ~3 magistrates per year, so 3 building/yaer, so 150 for LVL 1 building, or 210 for 2 lvl.

My forcelimits are 81, i`m using 71 of that. Maintenance 22 ducats/month 100%, 260/year(assume war)

I also have a number of diplomats, that i may spend ~100 gold on diplomacy.

The net summ is ~570, currently the 1450 year, I`m +3 stability ENG, and i own most of France, my end of the year tax is only 340(so about half of what i would like to have).

There are 3 resourses in game that are essential. Ducats, Manpower, Magistrates. Enything else can easilly be gained by application of the above 3.

Also comparing the MD + MOM to just NB is apples to oranges.

Compare the NI+adviser also. So say NB+ discipline adviser.