The 3 tiers...

[Prussia]

How exactly do you justify to make a country that gets devoured by its neighbours, including Sweden which you don't want in the top tier, to be tier 1?

I believe that The Netherlands (or better The Dutch Republic) should be in Tier 1 instead of Sweden. Sure that "Union" wasn't there from the beggining of the game but by the time(historical time) Sweden starts to be somewhat important in the North-East Europe, the The Dutch were colonising almost every corner of the globe and have been a trading colossus. So I believe that The Netherlands should have definitely been in the Tier 1 instead of Sweden.

 

[n000b]

Netherlands was way more important than Prussia or Brandenburg throughout the whole era. Brandenburg doesn't fit tier 1 under any circumstances.

I didnt say it wasnt, only said that imo brandenburg was one if the most fun nations in eu3, and thats the reason I would had liked them to be in tier 1. I would rather want more features/flavour for the nations i consider fun, than the nations who were historically the "winners". And thats what the tiers are for, to determin who get the most flavour, right?

 

[Baneslave]

I believe that The Netherlands (or better The Dutch Republic) should be in Tier 1 instead of Sweden. Sure that "Union" wasn't there from the beggining of the game but by the time(historical time) Sweden starts to be somewhat important in the North-East Europe, the The Dutch were colonising almost every corner of the globe and have been a trading colossus. So I believe that The Netherlands should have definitely been in the Tier 1 instead of Sweden.

However, the problem is tha putting tons of effort into a country that even isn't there at the start of game (and is pretty much random if it appears or not), seems wasteful.

 

[Prussia]

However, the problem is tha putting tons of effort into a country that even isn't there at the start of game (and is pretty much random if it appears or not), seems wasteful.

But I do believe that it would be such a shame if The Netherlands wouldn't form like 90% of the games without human intervention. And I don't wanna throw in the thing about determinism. If it's completely random(by your saying), whether the Netherlands are going to form or not, then we have a much bigger problem than The Netherlands being in the Tier 1. But that's just the way I see it. The Netherlands is(are?) much more important than Sweden.

 

[Alexander Seil]

I must have written at least ten times by now in the dev diaires that Japan won't be a unified country from start.

Wasn't this mentioned like once? Apart from the announcement that the Shogunate doesn't exist as a sub-system anymore.

I think the best would be to just do a dev diary on China/Japan to clarify the situation there, otherwise various distracting speculations about them will keep cropping up all over the place.

 

[unmerged(411354)]

You are aware that at times around 40% of the British army was Irish, right?

Irish revolts usually followed the same pattern, initial success against local forces, then after a while the regular army is brought in and the rebellion is crushed. The only one that can really be considered as a victory is the 1641 rebellion, and that also ended in the Irish being crushed, albeit after 11 years of self rule.

In this period, Ireland was united for those 11 years, nothing else IIRC. Sure, they were united against the English in the 9 years war, but not to the extent of being a nation from what I can remember. A country that existed 11 years, and for the rest of the period was getting nommed/digested is not a good candidate for any special events.

40% of the British army i have no idea where your getting your facts man but that definetley is not true for the time period of this game, maybe in the nineteenth century. Ireland is also a good candidate for events because it is in one of the most important parts of europe if not the most important part of Europe, futhermore ***Paradox already simulated both of the events i already mentioned with a unified ireland in Eu3 im hoping the developers at least do that again

 

[k_merse]

The thing is, most, if not all, of the difference between the tiers is in historical flavor content. While some negative flavor content is fun/interesting (god how I loathed, in a good way, the time of troubles/oprichnina chains in EU & EU 2 for Russia), a general trend of only negative DHEs coinciding with your country gradually getting eaten by your neighbors (the sort of DHE available to Poland in later stages of the game) would probably not be a lot of fun. I'm sure there is some content available that would buck that general trend if you dig hard enough but I don't know how far the devs would have to dig to get enough "good" historical flavor events to counter the "bad".

You also have to consider that due to the actual history; "Poland" content will probably also include some of the "Lithuania" content so you probably have a t2+some of a t3.

Good point. But I still think it would be better to put it into Tier one instead of Sweden. But as I said, my primary candidate would be Brandenburg.

Japan wasn't represented as one unified country in Divine Wind and won't be in EU4, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Which was rather ahistorical... I thought you're starting the development based on DW, so it will be represented as unified. You don't have to be so irritated
Still, it would be a great shame if you really wouldn't plan anything to represent the Shogunate. And a strong proof that you really don't care even a little bit about anything outside Europe.

I was under the impression that EU4 would be a game instead of a day-by-day recreation of European history. Nations should have the resources they had at that point in history, but shouldn't be forgotten just because the got kerb-stomped in history.

However, Poland has a much more central role in European politics. Sweden only becomes a regional power after the Thirty Years War, while Poland has been a battle ground for decades by this point. I'd rather have a Poland that makes Europe interesting than a Sweden that will take some Baltic provinces and sit there.

My point exactly

 

[Empty86]

Disappointing that the Netherlands didn't make it to the top tier. I hope Paradox find some way to simulate their role in history in EU4. In EU3 they didn't form most of the time and if they did they were a complete non-factor in the Quest for the New Worlds with giants like England, Castille and France.

 

[unmerged(411354)]

Why? Let me finish wiping out the other Irish clans so I can become a problem for the English! Shush a moment! I'm busy forming Ireland and defying history here! Some might say I'm playing a game.

Thank you finally somebody that isnt anal and realizes this is a game, I want to turn ireland into a colonial empire and at various times in the game it could have, thats why I want to play at the criticals moments like the nine years war and 1641 and keep ireland independent. Then change history, i dont want to see a British and French N America, why not an irish one, hell theres belief that they discovered it before the vikings anyways. This was possible in Eu3 im hoping they keep the events but make them happen like the top tiers nation events. LOL Paradox would be my heroes if they would.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Good point. But I still think it would be better to put it into Tier one instead of Sweden. But as I said, my primary candidate would be Brandenburg.

Which was rather ahistorical... I thought you're starting the development based on DW, so it will be represented as unified. You don't have to be so irritated
Still, it would be a great shame if you really wouldn't plan anything to represent the Shogunate. And a strong proof that you really don't care even a little bit about anything outside Europe.

Still being a prick to the people who grounded you?

Sweden deserves to be Tier 1 because it was the premier power of Northern Europe until late in the game. Poland and Hungary do not deserve to be Tier 1 because they were largely victims instead of victors for this period. Both ceased to exist by 1822.

 

[DoomBunny]

40% of the British army i have no idea where your getting your facts man but that definetley is not true for the time period of this game, maybe in the nineteenth century. Ireland is also a good candidate for events because it is in one of the most important parts of europe if not the most important part of Europe, futhermore ***Paradox already simulated both of the events i already mentioned with a unified ireland in Eu3 im hoping the developers at least do that again

...

I think you just did more damage to your argument than I ever could have. Thankyou, and goodday.

 

[unmerged(411354)]

Lol i dont think so buddy, atleast im not pulling facts out my arse like a wikipedia-boy.Im saying its in the most important part of europe because Western Europe was basically responsible for the colonization of the world.

 

[Svip]

Lol i dont think so buddy, atleast im not pulling facts out my arse like a wikipedia-boy.Im saying its in the most important part of europe because Western Europe was basically responsible for the colonization of the world.

Being at the party doesn't make you important. Actually colonising makes you important. I don't recall the huge Irish colonisation. In fact, if I remember, the Irish arrived rather late to the New World.

 

[DoomBunny]

It's sweet that you go to the extent of editing your posts to add extra insults especially for me. However, I have no desire to carry on a redundant conversation when I am clearly causing you to invest a large amount of time thinking up such insults. Furthermore, I feel that from this point on the conversation shall only degenerate further to the point where it becomes a mere filth slinging contest.

Therefore, I would ask that you kindly abstain from it, as I shall now do.

 

[Captain Gars]

Which was rather ahistorical...

It was but I didn't say we were gonna keep just as it was in DW, did I?

I thought you're starting the development based on DW, so it will be represented as unified.

Yes we built from what was in DW - but Japan wasn't united there so again I don't understand your point here.

You don't have to be so irritated

I wasn't irritated, but I'm starting to get. Either your reading comprehension is very poor or you're just trying to pick a fight.

Still, it would be a great shame if you really wouldn't plan anything to represent the Shogunate. And a strong proof that you really don't care even a little bit about anything outside Europe.

Again, when have we said that we aren't planning to represent the shogunate? And about not caring about anything outside of Europe: so far I've spent most of the time improving the map outside of Europe.

 

[unmerged(411354)]

They helped colonize tons of places like eastern canada, they were the first to settle/colonize newfoundland. Not to mention the New England States in the USA, lol good ole Boston. But this is not the point im trying to make.

 

[Jwb]

behaviour vital for game progress Sweden really, really.... Wouldn't miss them
But with the new trade system (that looks great), I hope that the Netherlands will be formed in every game. It is not because of patriotic input, but because of the game balance... Even when te leading role of the Netherlands diminished in the 18th century it was still a balacing factor in Europe (mainly against France). And the Netherlands would be a perfect nation to play, with the new trading system. Even when they are placed in trier 2 I hope that the developing team will let them pop up 99% of the time, probably as an calvinist nation around the time of religious turbulence in western Europe as an rebelion against any nation who has a different state religion. And not as in Eu 3 where the historical impact and role of the Netherlands was raped by the structure of the game, but again with the new trading system i'm hopefull for a better, more balanced gameplay (btw Sweden the rest of the world only hears of you in history during the Thirty years war, in wich Sweden pops up for five years, and that's it. Oooh wait and you got economically dominated by the Dutch in the Baltic region(even with military actions)).

 

[k_merse]

Still being a prick to the people who grounded you?

I don't know why you have that impression, so I consider it that you just want to start a flame war, which is rather inadvisable.

Sweden deserves to be Tier 1 because it was the premier power of Northern Europe until late in the game. Poland and Hungary do not deserve to be Tier 1 because they were largely victims instead of victors for this period. Both ceased to exist by 1822.

1) Who was even talking about Hungary, except of you of course?
2) China was a prominent country for several thousands of years, and it still didn't make it into the top 7. Brandenburg become the most important state on the European continent by the end of the game's timeframe, still it's only Tier 2. Poland was in the center of action for several hundreds of years and still didn't make it to Tier 1 while Sweden who was mainly sitting in Scandinavia did. And as I already explained, I had the impression that this should be a game with fascinating alternative histories, and not a movie where you can rewatch the history of Europe again and again as you suggest.

Again, when have we said that we aren't planning to represent the shogunate? And about not caring about anything outside of Europe: so far I've spent most of the time improving the map outside of Europe.

As I said, it WOULD be a shame. But so far we heard nothing about things outside of Europe, except that the two highest ranked non-European (not including the Mediterraneum in the term in this case) country made it to Tier 2 only. Only improving the map doesn't change too much. I repeat, don't be irritated. Your comments seem very... tense.
Or just falsify my criticism and reveal what magnificent things you plan for the rest of the world

 

[hyme]

Uhm no Bohemia?

ya at 18th

 

[brifbates]

ya at 18th

Except that the position within each tier is pretty meaningless (obviously since Sweden is listed ahead of Portugal and Austria, both of which had far greater historical impact). Unless you are referencing the fact that t1+t2=17 nations. In that case please lay out your case for Bohemia being placed ahead of any nation currently in the top 17. Or, at the very least, how their behavior is "important for gameplay" and thus meriting a promotion and expansion of t2.