The 1.2 patch, a little bit on contents

[Gabriel SPR]

This is somewhere to tread carefully. You don't want to limit the AI too much, otherwise the player gets too much of an advantage. I myself launched the Belgian conquests of Egypte and Morocco. You'd probably not call those plausible either, I still launched those wars and succeeded.

The only thing the AI should jugde better is its ability acquire its wargoals.

Good point. But IMHO should be harder for BOTH human & cpu to conquer huge empires, I'd like to see more balance as it was in the victorian age. Other GPs can't allow you/AI to expand too much and just DoW you/AI when it's too late.
I really hope "AI is more likely to intervene" means more containment wars, just my personal taste though.

 

[superdave56]

The whole perma-revolt thing makes the game unplayable by about 1860-1880.

I believe the root cause is two-fold. First, the ridiculous life demands of craftsmen. Yes, I know that this is deliberate for some kind of balance issue. Well, it stinks. First of all, militancy of craftsmen is constantly rising. Second, its unintuitive and unrealistic. Coal miners and dirt farmers are making money hand over fist but the craftsmen, even mid game with a lot of techs and some profitable factories are at like 30% of life needs.

Militancy rises rapidly which IMHO is one of the causes of the perma-revolts. I've had profitable factories - notable a level 2 steel factory making 300 a day, but not even close to life needs for crafties. I would attribute this to my incompetence but the AI is having the same issues.

I haven't ran the numbers, but intuitively I'm thinking that craftsmen demands for goods like grain would exceed total world supply - a 30,000 craftsman pop needs like 100 grain (going from memory)? Multiply that by all craftsmen and then the rest of the pops. World production of grain is something like 8500-9000 in my games. I strongly suspect that it is in fact mathematically impossible to meet crafty life needs for any significant percentage of craftsmen. That means constantly rising militancy, demotion problems, etc.

Second, the average militancy calculation needs to be tweaked. As France, with revolts in basically every province average militancy was <1.0. This prevented Liberals from supporting social reforms which could have at least lowered militancy temporarily. A different calculation here would be helpful - I have blood running in the streets, every province in revolt but militancy isn't high enough for reform?

The GPs all in basically constant revolt crashes the world market and probably has a lot to do with the late game economic collapse.:wacko:

 

[DarthJF]

Nice. I'm waiting to hear more about other improvements as well.

 

[DrMaier]

The patch will obviously contain a lot more, but these are some headlines we think you'll like to see:

• Improved AI handling of rebels.
• The Diplomatic AI have gotten an overhaul and the AI is more likely to intervene, and also will form alliances with other GP's.
• Mid and endgame economy have been tweaked, and the capitalists should understand more what is profitable or not.

More news to come, like the date of the release and more fixes of course.

NICE, nobody wants to form an ally with me :C
<3 Paradox

 

[Vasily]

Vasily: Changing such complicated program to multi-threading isn't simple, so you most likely need to wait until the next engine generation.

Meh, I'm just putting it out there.

 

[Dichromate]

The whole perma-revolt thing makes the game unplayable by about 1860-1880.

I believe the root cause is two-fold. First, the ridiculous life demands of craftsmen. Yes, I know that this is deliberate for some kind of balance issue. Well, it stinks. First of all, militancy of craftsmen is constantly rising. Second, its unintuitive and unrealistic. Coal miners and dirt farmers are making money hand over fist but the craftsmen, even mid game with a lot of techs and some profitable factories are at like 30% of life needs.

Militancy rises rapidly which IMHO is one of the causes of the perma-revolts. I've had profitable factories - notable a level 2 steel factory making 300 a day, but not even close to life needs for crafties. I would attribute this to my incompetence but the AI is having the same issues.

I haven't ran the numbers, but intuitively I'm thinking that craftsmen demands for goods like grain would exceed total world supply - a 30,000 craftsman pop needs like 100 grain (going from memory)? Multiply that by all craftsmen and then the rest of the pops. World production of grain is something like 8500-9000 in my games. I strongly suspect that it is in fact mathematically impossible to meet crafty life needs for any significant percentage of craftsmen. That means constantly rising militancy, demotion problems, etc.

Second, the average militancy calculation needs to be tweaked. As France, with revolts in basically every province average militancy was <1.0. This prevented Liberals from supporting social reforms which could have at least lowered militancy temporarily. A different calculation here would be helpful - I have blood running in the streets, every province in revolt but militancy isn't high enough for reform?

The GPs all in basically constant revolt crashes the world market and probably has a lot to do with the late game economic collapse.:wacko:

This.

 

[podcat]

Capis borrowing from NB to fund projects is not in the game. NB is just for governments that need to take loans.

actually we tried this just before 1.1 but it was very unbalancing and we didnt have time to polish it so it was cut. we might add something like this back in a future patch however if its needed.

 

[superfrancais]

i am just curious as to why there is interest without inflation. forget rounding errors, much bigger problem is there. there is an "inflation" line with no values attached at the bottom of save files so i wonder if it's an unimplemented feature.

 

[Mnoracle]

actually we tried this just before 1.1 but it was very unbalancing and we didnt have time to polish it so it was cut. we might add something like this back in a future patch however if its needed.

It is indeed needed, because the only real way to start industrialization right now if you have no factories is to do State Capitalism. Otherwise you may wait for quite some time before first factory is built

 

[Sentinal 6]

Thanks for the update. Great game! Looking forward to more information on 1.2.

 

[Vasily]

It is indeed needed, because the only real way to start industrialization right now if you have no factories is to do State Capitalism. Otherwise you may wait for quite some time before first factory is built

In some cases for smaller nations, yes but if you play as a great power then it's pretty much automated.

 

[Mnoracle]

In some cases for smaller nations, yes but if you play as a great power then it's pretty much automated.

No, I waited for 20 years before my first factory was build in the province without 1 at the start of the game as USA. And i had focus on Capitalists in one place all this years.

It very much depends on do you have rich pops in the province or not. If you have some iron/coal or precious metals it's fine and dandy otherwise - hard luck.

 

[unmerged(146391)]

A side question here - if we've modded some files (and, naturally, saved all the originals) do we need to change the game files back again before we update with the patch, or will the patch just replace everything?

 

[JScott991]

A side question here - if we've modded some files (and, naturally, saved all the originals) do we need to change the game files back again before we update with the patch, or will the patch just replace everything?

I've modded PI games for years and never changed back before a patch.

You should keep track, though, of things you might have modded that don't change with the patch, just in case one of your mods doesn't work well with the new files.

 

[Laffertytig]

Vasily: Changing such complicated program to multi-threading isn't simple, so you most likely need to wait until the next engine generation.

considering the 1st game (eu3) with this new engine was released in Jan 07 it kinda make you wonder why it wasnt written with multicore systems in mind.

its a shame features have to be cut or trimmed due to performance concerns.

 

[WittyName]

Fix the rebellions, game is unplayable because of them.

 

[KonradRichtmark]

Rebellions aren't themselves the problem now. It is entirely plausible and appropriate that a country trying to stay an absolute monarchy and doing no reforms whatsoever would suffer from rebellion, especially if plurality has been allowed to soar. The only country that tried to do that, Russia, collapsed under revolutions.

The problem is rather that it's ludicrously difficult to get the upper house to agree to reforms. Conservatives and reactionaries are good as they are, but why should liberals oppose social reforms and socialists oppose political reforms? They might not specifically want those things, but they wouldn't be opposed to them either, not nearly to the same degree as conservatives in any case.

Conservatives are good as they are, with base 0% reform support and a gain of 10% per point of militancy. When it comes to liberals and social reforms, and socialists and political reforms, the base should be 50% (being effectively neither for nor against), with a gain of 5% per point of militancy.

As it is now, a situation can occur where liberals and socialists compete against each other for upper house shares, resulting in neither getting anything done.

 

[palmus]

Yes it is, but continent wide anarcho-liberal/jacobin rebellions *probably* ought not be happening in the first place.

I mean seriously - Jacobins in the US?
In Russia or Prussia while they're absolute monarchy's? sure.
Even eventually in a constitutional monarchy with a restrictive franchise... but they still revolt even when you have universal voting.

In addition, you often can't even enact reforms, despite repeated country wide revolts because your upper house doesn't think its serious enough since 'average' militancy is low.

Well, I do agree with you. I am aware of the issue but I am having bigger problems with Reactionaries TBH. Nationwide rebellions when playing as Ottoman Empire and controlling balkans, middle east and all of north africa... It's a pain in my ass.

 

[flashbax]

actually we tried this just before 1.1 but it was very unbalancing and we didnt have time to polish it so it was cut. we might add something like this back in a future patch however if its needed.

Ah, OK, I thought it had been implemented. What's needed is simply a mechanism to direct capital where it can be profitably invested. I can think of four ways to do this:

• Enable borrowing from the NB
• Let everyone promote to capitalists based on savings (and maybe literacy)
• Have an option for government grants to interesting projects that lack funding
• Let capitalists invest across state borders (although this still wouldn't work for countries that lack even a single starting factory)

Completely freeing up the massive amounts of capital that countries currently accumulate would probably be indeed unbalancing, because total industrialization would be completed way too early. This could be counteracted by nerfing RGOs and/or increasing the cost of factories - if the capitalists have to pay the same low interest rates as governments, they could still serve hundreds of thousands in loans with just one moderately profitable factory.

 

[pacja]

• Improved AI handling of rebels.
• Mid and endgame economy have been tweaked, and the capitalists should understand more what is profitable or not.

Glad to hear that development is going ahead! Here my 2 cents:

• Dozens of minor (3k each) revolts in the late game are a boring wack-the-mole minigame, I'd prefer facing less frequent major revolts (maybe region-wide) and I'd like some police/secret police options to deal with them;
• National bank loans to foreign powers should have an impact on diplomatic relations and, possibly, I'd like some kind of filter/priority/black list on who the national bank should or shouldn't finance, at least in countries with a strong control over the economy.