I agree that Portugal is too uber... but part of that problem is that I rarely see Netherlands and England giving them a run for their money, sadly...
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Thing is, Portugal is only traditionally good at one thing, it's economy. It hasn't got either land or naval military going for it since it doesn't have the support OR leaders for either. So if income is taken away from it as well, then it's got nothing going for it really.
Still Portugal has only ever become strong when they haven't had any or much competition from other colonials. This was the main reason of their demise IRL, and when it doesn't happen in the game, Portugal stays a lot stronger than they were IRL. From how I see it, it's pretty good.
Still Portugal has only ever become strong when they haven't had any or much competition from other colonials. This was the main reason of their demise IRL, and when it doesn't happen in the game, Portugal stays a lot stronger than they were IRL. From how I see it, it's pretty good.
Portugal has a pretty hard start as it is, so I don't suggest cutting down initial wealth. Perhaps lowering techs, but I cannot read the game right now, I'm at work.
Bocaj, sure they only have their economy going for them, I don't dispute that. What I do think is wrong is Portugal repeatedly having the strongest economy by far 1650 (1550 after historical peak!) and a strong lead in tech.
With a good economy they tend to hypertech, and with the generous fleet maintenance we have now it's easy for Portugal to have and keep a fleet lead, making it impossible for anyone to get their colonies. Having the strongest fleet is all about economy now.
Bocaj, sure they only have their economy going for them, I don't dispute that. What I do think is wrong is Portugal repeatedly having the strongest economy by far 1650 (1550 after historical peak!) and a strong lead in tech.
With a good economy they tend to hypertech, and with the generous fleet maintenance we have now it's easy for Portugal to have and keep a fleet lead, making it impossible for anyone to get their colonies. Having the strongest fleet is all about economy now.
I hope Peter feels like updating this scenario. It's still the most balanced one around here and it's about time it gets played again 
I see a bit too many one-man-mods to be honest (though some of them are quite good).
I see a bit too many one-man-mods to be honest (though some of them are quite good).
FAL said:
Damn straight.
Thing is, FAL, that it's pretty hard for several people to collaborate on a mod if you only have 1 thread to do with - and since you only get a subforum if a mod is involved in the project, well...
Hive said:
I was more referring to let players, multiplayer players, have a say in the matter. PAoE is not a one man work, but more a work of the community.
If a random gecko thinks it's good to screw the USA revolt events, because they are to weak in vanilla eu2, it doesn't mean he is right, you know
FAL said:
It's a one man work if PE want it to be. He made it, his decision. If you are unhappy, you can just take his scenario (I'm sure he don't mind) and build a new community scenario on top of it.
Having said that, I do feel that PE have taken suggestions into account quite often.
If a random gecko thinks it's good to screw the USA revolt events, because they are to weak in vanilla eu2, it doesn't mean he is right, you know
There's a more appropriate thread for this discussion, you know.
Heck, no, it is a one man show. One man - one vote. I'm the man and I have the voteFAL said:
And anybody who feels differently is entirely free to copy the whole shebang, make whatever changes he likes, and use it as his own scenario. After all, if I was in this for the money or the fame, it would be work instead of fun. That said, if some multiplayer peons come up with some eminently sensible suggestions and/or legit criticism, I would be a fool not to at least consider them before taking the parts I like and discarding the rest as I have occasionally done so in the past.
But make no mistake. Any project in which I take a major part is either a dictatorship, or, at the most, a triumvirate. Or work. I do not have the patience for anything else.
-- Anyhow, might be time for a new release of the 1520 scenario based on the leaders/monarchs of the 1.08 betas and possibly a Portuguese tweak, though I do feel that the major issue with Portugal is player mentality rather than setup. Still, perhaps the current setup overencourages the mentality on all sides. If anybody has any good suggestions, please post them and the Portuguese situation might be adjusted in accordance with paragraph 1. (Dictatorial fiat)
Peter Ebbesen said:
It looks like major bitching about a subject makes you changing things though, wether you agree with it or not
If Portugal follows its historical route: colonising and trading in the 16th century, while staying neutral to most European business and a friend of Spain, they end up with a very large tech lead. We can hardly blame the players for following the historical route. Please elaborate on what you ment by that, with such an open statement I have probably misunderstood you.Peter Ebbesen said:
Portugal should have an easy time getting in a lot of merchants in all the non-European CoTs. I agree with that. But having a trade tech (same with infrastructure) two higher than everyone else in year 1600 they are by far the most important traders in Europe as well, which is wrong. The reason for their historical success was a monopoly on the overseas markets, since other European didn't trade there. When others came, they were also successful. They should become rich by trade from newly discovered lands and routes and by having no competition there, not from European trading. I have seen this in several games, admittedly played by skilled players. But other nations have also been played equally well in those games, without getting close to the same high tech result even once.
Their lead becomes so large it is usually not worth it to fight them as should happen from start of their decline 1550, and it will take a long time for anyone to catch up their trade tech, and equal them in income.
IN PE1492 POR have trade 3 (along with TUR, SPA, VEN) and infra 3 (along with VEN). PE1520 POR have trade 4 (no one else has that, VEN has 5) and infra 3 (along with ENG, HAB, SPA, SWE, TUR, VEN, DEN). I think we should consider lowering infra 1492 to 2, and both POR and possibly VEN trade 1 step 1520.
Norrefeldt said:If Portugal follows its historical route: colonising and trading in the 16th century, while staying neutral to most European business and a friend of Spain, they end up with a very large tech lead. We can hardly blame the players for following the historical route. Please elaborate on what you ment by that, with such an open statement I have probably misunderstood you.
Maybe he meant that too few English and especially Dutch players try to contest Portuguese domination?
Probably something like that. But concidering how strong Portugal can be when Netherlands come around I can understand if they don't. If they can compete with Portugal in the COTs they would have a bigger chance. Also, the engine doesn't really promote colonial warfare.Hive said:
Indeed you have. By player mentalities, I mean those of the entire gaming gang, rather than only Portugal's. Portugal should* face competition rather than merely acquiescence from other parties.Norrefeldt said:If Portugal follows its historical route: colonising and trading in the 16th century, while staying neutral to most European business and a friend of Spain, they end up with a very large tech lead. We can hardly blame the players for following the historical route. Please elaborate on what you ment by that, with such an open statement I have probably misunderstood you.
* In my fantasy world populated by absurd stereotypes, antiquated modes of belief, and cute bunnies.
Bunnies or not, it got even more unbalanced by the latest patch. I prefer cute stereotype bunnies too, but the game I play with them is not EU2.
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Yes, this is a totally great scenario. Johan's (if it was him) Age of Faith kind of, well, sucks. No one declares war on anyone and his beta patch conflicts with his mod. All I see is my little Venice (and those beautiful Venesian sl*ts) get gobbled up by those filthy Ottomans and my stupid ally Austria declares war very soon after before I can even (attempt) to suck Venice into my alliance. Venice says no (ARIA GIAVANNI, please!!!) anyway, and uhhh I forgot what I was going to say next. Gumdrops and lollypops soon filled my head in a creamy vanilla field of me and ARIA. But anyway, that's about the only war that goes on, so you Johan really need to read this (but please don't ban me!! (It's just a little friendly suggestion)). But Peter dude, could you make SPAIN the leader of the 1520 alliance please? It was annoying enough having Austria lead my alliance all those years (my years (2001-2005)) in the age of mercantilism scenario. So Peter dude your scenario is fine just let Spain lead that little rag tag alliance, Johan dude uhhh I'll let you write back first before I see "you cannot access this page. this could be do to several reasons. 1) Johan got pissed because you made fun of his mod"