Once Upon a Time ... the Revolution - A Red Grand Campaign PBEM

[Thandros]

I'm guessing it simply isn't possible at all for the Red Player if the Whites are slow in Central Asia to move that Army via the Railway to Krasnovodsk before getting picked up by Red Transports in the Caspian Sea. Wait forget about that even writing it down makes it sound stupid.

 

[germanpeon]

Wow, Zinoviev is a hero of the revolution if I've ever seen one.

I must admit that I always try to clean up Central Asia first as the Siberian Whites (so I can forget/requisition it for the rest of the game) but I've got to question Durk's relentless, reckless obsession with it. He lost a fair amount of elements and NM considering the theater's relative unimportance. Even if he had succeeded in taking Aralsk in the end, I still wouldn't say it was worth it.

One thing I'm somewhat confused about is how Zinoviev's army managed to supply itself. Granted, he has three supply units, but he can't possibly be drawing enough supply from Aralsk and the depot to maintain supply indefinitely. Although, if it is the case that he has a surplus of supply, you could consider beefing up his army with an additional leader and some more inf and art...

Who knows, maybe you could use Durk's recklessness and obsession against him. You already control the only gateway to Central Asia, and if you somehow managed to accumulate enough force to hold Aralsk AND start taking the rest of the rail line (he's already moved his British units out of the way) you'd have control of a huge region deep in his backyard, and with a lot of strategic depth. This hypothetical depends entirely on you having surplus supply, leaders, resources, and Durk's own buildup in the theater, of course. It certainly would be interesting to see, though!

 

[Stuyvesant]

Talk about beating the odds. Zinoviev did far more than could ever have been expected of him (at least by any sane man's measure - I'm sure Lenin & Co. would consider anything short of total victory a horrible dereliction of duty). And while it was fascinating to watch that plucky little Red Army hold out against the odds, I'm even more curious to find out what ripple effects this will have: were Siberian offensives westward stalled because of Zinoviev's stubborn defense? Were you maybe even able to go on the offensive yourself? Those kinds of questions are what I'm left with, after this last update. Eagerly looking forward to more.

 

[unmerged(305389)]

All this wonderful feedback, it's like unwrapping Christmas presents.


Thandros: Your idea is creative and original. To do the unexpected is the best way towards winning in multiplayer games.
In turn 1, the Siberians have 2 armies in Central Asia: one at Khiva, the other at Bukhara. Therefore the Reds don't control the entire railway line to Krasnovodsk to begin with. Until Zinoviev arrives in turn 3, they usually have lost Samarkand and Achkhabad (if things go badly Tashkent is lost as well - I did in this game, Durk was just too aggressive to let me keep the city). This means that one third of the railway line between Aralsk and the Caspian Sea is in White hands. An escape is thus no longer possible.


Germanpeon and Stuyvesant: Clearing your backyard of Reds is the first order of business for any Siberian player. That is what Durk tried to do. Aralsk is an excellent defensive and strategic position. It's the bottleneck through which any traffic from and to Central Asia has to go. As long as it remains in Red hands, the Siberian troops in Central Asia can't be used to reinforce the main front at the Volga. Obviously this weakened Durk forces in the West. The effect started to be visible in early 1919 when I was able to retake Penza and Saratov. Probably this wouldn't have been possible with another 800 pw Siberian stack along the Volga.

I have to defend my friend Durk, though. 6 out of 8 attacks made perfect sense to me (the 2nd and the 8th are the exceptions). He had to crush Zinoviev and he tried to do so ruthlessly. If anything Durk didn't commit enough troops to the endeavour. But frankly, a 4:1 superiority in combat power usually is enough.

The supply issue is another excellent question: Durk asked me the same early during the Aralsk saga. My answer probably strengthened his resolve to attack.
Here is a more detailled version:
Aralsk is a level 1 city with a level 4 depot: This results in an outpout of 24 points of supply per turn (this gets increased because of a loyalty above 50%, but decrease because my NM was below 100, in the end these two effects almost cancelled each other out).
Zinoviev's Army needs roughly 50 supply units per turn (after the big battles a lot less). In other words half of it is covered by local production.
The rest is drawn from the big stockpile that Aralsk contained when Zinoviev arrived at the city. Once this stack is exhausted Zinoviev's supply trains will keep his army fed for several more months.
Zinoviev's Army is thus just small enough to last for a very long time. That said any troop increase would make the supply situation unsustainable very quickly. An offensive is thus out of the question.

It took a long time before Zinoviev himself got something out of these battles. By March 1919, he had finally gained the promotion to his second star - this decreased the command penalty to 5% (sending a second general became a lot less urgent). He also had gained some experience improving his stats from 2-0-0 to 2-0-1 which made him a little better on defense.


Loki100: Zinoviev pleasantly surprised me. I have long since hedged a plan to get him out of Aralsk, but with Durk's constant attacks, I never dared implement it. Besides, I am not sure I want to lose the steady influx of NM, I get from the battles there.


Dewirix: Thank you! As for Zinoviev, regardless of what happens next, this defense of Aralsk is already a win. I don't yet know how it will end, we are not that far ahead in this match.

 

[General_Hoth]

Let's all hail Zinoviev! And hope this war hero doesn't loose against stalin in the future power plays

 

[unmerged(305389)]

First off, my apologies for the long delay since my last update. There are two reasons for this: We had some technical troubles with corrupted files and secondly, our Southern White player is unfortunately very busy in real life. Still the game is slowly but surely progressing.

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Chapter 8 - The White, the Yellow, and the Black: Ukraine, December 1918 - April 1919​

Russians are too kind, they lack the ability to apply determined methods of revolutionary terror.
-
Lenin​

Since the Red defeats early in the war, the South had been calm. Volunteers and Cossacks had methodically cleared the region of Red outposts and then turned towards Tzaritsyn. However Denikin had stopped his troops before reaching the city. The scouting reports on Stalin's strength had been too discouraging as both forces seemed of almost equal strength. Thus neither Stalin nor Denikin dared to attack. For its part, the Red leadership was more than content to settle into a stalemate. For the moment time was working in its favour.

In the meantime, encouraging news had arrived from Germany: The Kaiser had lost the Great War. German forces would soon be pulled out of the Ukraine. The Bolsheviks immediately scratch together all reserves that could be spared and assembled a new army at Kursk. Half of the men were survivors of the Kuban Campaign, the rest newly recruited conscripts. In total Kamanev had 56.000 men under his command.

When the Germans finally retreated from the Ukraine in December 1918, Kamanev immediately struck. On December 11th, his army entered Belograd and 10 days later the Red flag was hoisted over Kharkov. The first major offensive of the Red Army in the war resulted in the bloodless conquest of the Ukraine's second most important city.

The White armies had been slow to react. Their main force was still outside Tzaritsyn and the railroads back to the Don had been the target of constant attacks by Red partisans. But that was soon to change. French and Greek forces had landed at Odessa, ready to meddle in Russia's internal affairs. The intruders swiftly struck north and advanced towards Kiev. Almost simultaniously thousands of Cossacks revolted along the Don. Supposedly, these counter-revolutionary malcontents had been pushed into revolt by Stalin's harsh politics. But knowing the Red commissars reputation for kindness and generosity, who would believe such rumours?
The Cossack revolt reinvigorated the White war effort in the South; soon Kudinov's force conquered Liski (a small harbour on the northern bank of the Don just opposite of Voronezh). But luckily the advance could be stopped as this point since Voronezh was well defended.

In the meantime, new White forces had assembled on the Krim. In January 1919, they started to advance north as well. These fresh volunteers committed one of the biggest blunders of the war. A regiment of light infantry that was spearheading the White advance conquered Melitopol on January 15th. Although the city had pledged its allegiance to the Ukrainian nationalist government at Kiev, Nestor Makhno considered it as part of his territory. The Anarchist wasn't prepared to tolerate this infringement and entered an alliance of conveniance with the Soviets. In exchange for an insignificant gain, the Whites had unleashed more than 25.000 highly motivated partisans and cavalrymen that would plague than for a long time to come.*

Makhno wasted no time and immediately started to spread havoc. His first victim was to be an officer who himself enjoyed a reputation for daring cavalry raids and guerilla actions: Shkuro. Makhno's men had the surprise on their side when they attacked Donetsk on January 24th. Shkuro managed to retreat his force in some semblance of order but at that point one third of his men had already been killed.

The war in the South continued in the same style: both sides sent cavalry forces and partisans into enemy territory to destroy railroads, conquer small cities and harrass each other. The main White areas of operation were along the Tambov-Tzaritsyn and the Kursk-Kharkov railroads which were under constant attack. The Red Army retaliated in kind: Anarchists and Ukrainian partisans did their best to slow down the progress of the Franco-Greek Expeditionary force while Makhno was striking like a whirlwind in the South-Eastern Ukraine. In the absence of major battles, the Southern front deteriorated into a bloody guerilla war.

Along the Tambov-Tzaritsyn railway, it was Blucher who waged a series of pitched battles to keep the railway open. And he did so with some success.**

On February 10th, the Soviet general surprised Wrangel at Kamyshin and destroyed one of his regiments. Considering that Wrangel had been outnumbered by more than 6:1, it was a bit embarrassing that the Red Army suffered higher casualties in this battle.

But there was to be at least one regular field battle during this time. Poliakov had crossed the Donets and was coming uncomfortably close to Kharkov. This was when Kamanev, the Red Commissar in charge of the Ukraine, decided to counterattack before the Cossacks could receive further reinforcements. Unfortunately, he was too late to prevent Krasnov from uniting his force with Poliakov's.

Nevertheless the battle was a moderate success: Outnumbered 3:1 Krasnov's men were pushed back across the river inspite of a stiff defense.***

Reinforced by Gregoriev, Makhno met his favourite foe again on March 10th. Their second battle took place just a few miles west of the first one. Again Makhno was to remain victorious.

But his success paled in the light of a surprise blow that Wrangel landed a month later. With just 2.400 cavalrymen the White general attacked Kursk. The Red defenders had a clear numerical advantage but their fighting strength was far inferior. Wrangel's men overran the Red defenses within minutes. Kursk had fallen in White hands.**** The loss of this crucial railroad hub put Kamenev's army at Kharkov in an uncomfortable position: its only supply route was interrupted.

Now the question was whether the Volunteer Army could follow up on Wrangel's stunning success? Could it transform what had started as a raid into a permanent occupation?

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* Melitopol is a nasty trap laid by the RUS developpers. The city flies the Ukrainian flag but conquering it will unlock the Anarchists. Ian is more experienced with the Short than the Grand Campaign; I think he simply didn't know this. For me, it was a very welcome present.
** After several battles this eventually gained him his second star.
*** I think these battles highlight why there was a stalemate in this theater: not counting the French, who were still busy breaking a stubborn Ukrainian resistance, I had a numerical advantage. Not huge, perhaps 1,5:1, but nevertheless a clear advantage. The problem was that this advantage was evaporated by the inferior quality of my troops. My army was a mixture of conscripts and militia whereas Ian could rely on a professional force reinforced by some conscripts. As a consequence, my units suffered higher casualties even when they outnumbered their enemy by big margins.
Just as importantly, we both kept our major forces on the defense. Ian's main army stayed passively outside Tzaritsyn and medium stacks were protecting his bases (Ekaterinodar, Rostov, Novocherkassk). A fifth stack had taken Liski and was now a constant threat to Voronezh and Tambov. This left Ian short of troops for a major effort into the Eastern Ukraine. Thus he operated with fairly small armies and waged a guerilla war against my supply lines.
I was in a similar dilemma: my main army was necessary to guard Tzaritsyn. Kamanev secured Kharkov and two medium stacks defended Tambov and Voronezh. However I was more prepared than Ian to temporarily weaken some of these positions to wage limited offensive actions like Blucher's counterattacks along the Tambov-Tzaritsyn railway or Kamanev pushing back Krasnov. My only force almost constantly on the offensive was Makhno's flying column.
Of course the big question is who of us could afford to wait? Frankly, I am not entirely sure, myself. My recruitment speed was higher but there were several factors working in Ian's favour: his French troops would certainly clear the Western Ukraine and could then threaten Kharkov from the East. Moreover, there was always the possibility of foreign interventions (Balts and Caucasians if Southern White NM decreased further, Polish in 1920 if the Siberian NM dropped below 90; we have a house-rule prohibiting Finnish intervention).
Perhaps the correct answer is that time was working for me short and mid term but not long term. In other words, their was a window of opportunity opening for the Reds in 1919 but it would shut quickly if they were too successful and triggered foreign interventions.
**** That one took me by surprise. Wrangel's force had been small enough to remain unnoticed. I had considered the garrison just strong enough to fend off two or three enemy regiments but I hadn't counted on Wrangel leading such an attack.

 

[Thandros]

Nice going there. Also Melitopol is a trap. That's good to know when I'm playing the southern whites again. I wondered why the anarchists joined the reds without me entering their territory.

 

[loki100]

fascinating campaign of probing and small scale actions, presume at some stage one of you needs to push for a solution at Tsaritsyn though?

 

[Stuyvesant]

Well, well, well. The capture of Kursk could herald serious trouble for you in the Ukraine - but only if the Whites can follow up on their success and reinforce the city. I expect that you'll be able to push the Whites out of the city, but I wonder how much that effort will weaken your other fronts in the Ukraine. Wrangel's action could really have an effect disproportionate to his strength.

I look forward to seeing how things play out in the Ukraine. Even without Wrangel's nasty surprise, the forces in the Ukraine are horribly intermingled - looking at the opening map of this chapter, I really can't see who has the advantage here.

 

[germanpeon]

I look forward to seeing how things play out in the Ukraine. Even without Wrangel's nasty surprise, the forces in the Ukraine are horribly intermingled - looking at the opening map of this chapter, I really can't see who has the advantage here.

I'll wager that the advantage is Bornego's, partially because of his proven skill, partially because of his numerical superiority, but mostly because the intermingling means that Durk's lines of supply and movement are disrupted, however he does not have the advantage of strategic depth and interior lines of supply and movement that Bornego enjoys. On the other hand, Wrangel has disrupted this advantage to some degree, though I doubt his ability to hold Kursk for long.

In any case, this war is definitely heating up and getting very interesting. All these small engagements must entail major engagements soon. Only so much maneuvering can be done before big armies clash. Kudos to Durk for the impressive raid with Wrangel!

 

[unmerged(305389)]

fascinating campaign of probing and small scale actions, presume at some stage one of you needs to push for a solution at Tsaritsyn though?

There will be a big battle at Tzaritsyn in the near future.

As for the need to make a push, it is a little more complex. The Reds have three major fronts to deal with: the South, the East and the North (against the White armies from Pskov, Murmansk and Arkhangelsk). A Red player can either try to strengthen all these fronts simultaniously or focus on one or two while risk being weak on the rest.

If one chooses to form a schwerpunkt, it should be either the Northern or the Siberian front. In the North there is a real chance of wiping a complete enemy army off the board (preferably the one spawning at Pskov), with it gone the forces from Murmansk and Arkhangelsk are too weak to achieve much. Thus one front can effectively be closed. The Siberian front is a good target for a different reason: it doesn't carry the risk of Polish intervention: if Southern White NM drops too low. It will get the Polish to intervene in 1920 thus creating a fourth front (with some deadly side-effects - if the Polish take Minsk or Kiev, the Reds lose 1 point of NM per turn, 2 if both cities are lost. This constant draining of NM will quickly get lethal). Trashing the Siberians on the other hand, doesn't have any negative consequences.

Such a schwerpunkt isn't without risk, though. The Southern White are the most dangerous foe for the Reds, neglecting them may result in some unwelcome guests bashing the Kremlin's gates in.

I look forward to seeing how things play out in the Ukraine. Even without Wrangel's nasty surprise, the forces in the Ukraine are horribly intermingled - looking at the opening map of this chapter, I really can't see who has the advantage here.

Less so than it appears from the maps. The Red dots behind Ian's lines are partisans. The White units in my rear, small White cavalry detachments.

I'll wager that the advantage is Bornego's, partially because of his proven skill, partially because of his numerical superiority, but mostly because the intermingling means that Durk's lines of supply and movement are disrupted, however he does not have the advantage of strategic depth and interior lines of supply and movement that Bornego enjoys. On the other hand, Wrangel has disrupted this advantage to some degree, though I doubt his ability to hold Kursk for long.

In any case, this war is definitely heating up and getting very interesting. All these small engagements must entail major engagements soon. Only so much maneuvering can be done before big armies clash. Kudos to Durk for the impressive raid with Wrangel!

Actually the Southern White player is Ian. Durk is in command of the Siberians.
The compliment for Ian is well deserved. He sure knows how to harrass you with small stacks. His masterpiece was the campaign around Pskov. I will come to that in chapter 10. Currently we are in the summer of 1919 with this game, and I still haven't managed to defeat that small army. Even worse, Ian has recently managed to unite the Murmansk and Arkhangelsk army with parts of the Pskov army. Not good ...

Your prediction about the small war soon making way for big battles is dead on. ... Ouch, that's perhaps a bad expression in the context of battles.
I have to disagree on your argument concerning interior lines and supply, though: True, the Reds have strategic depth and they do have interior lines if one regards the map of Russia as a whole. But if you only look at the South it is the White who enjoy interior lines. My front was a huge arch spanning from Tzaritsyn, via Tambov and Voronezh to Kharkov. Even if the whole railroad is intact, it takes at least two turns to send armies from one end of this arch to the other. On the other hand, the White railroad network is formed like a star, with a center at Rostov and Novocherkassk and arms spreading out in every direction. This enables them to shift units from Tzaritsyn to Kharkov in a single turn.
As for supply: The Southern White is the only faction that can easily secure supply for almost limitless armies. The Siberians and the Reds on the other hand tend to run into serious troubles if their armies get too big. Southern Russia is usually the area where the Reds supplies get critical first since cities and depots are relatively small while the armies necessary to defend the area grow big quickly (if they don't, the Reds get overrun).

 

[Searry]

There will be a big battle at Tzaritsyn in the near future.

As for the need to make a push, it is a little more complex. The Reds have three major fronts to deal with: the South, the East and the North (against the White armies from Pskov, Murmansk and Arkhangelsk). A Red player can either try to strengthen all these fronts simultaniously or focus on one or two while risk being weak on the rest.

The northern armies can take Petrograd with some luck. I managed to pull this off against the AI. I evacuated Archangelsk and shipped the troops to Murmansk. Waited for the allied reinforcements and that little corps. Then took the troops to Tsarskoye Selo, building depots and guarding them along the way. Then I avoided red troops with the Pskovite army and force marched them to Millers troops. Then I got the Finns to declare war on the reds and together the Finnish, British and Russian troops took Petrograd. Though this must be a lot harder against a human opponent. There could be some way to pull this off maybe?

 

[unmerged(305389)]

Chapter 9 - Any Gun Can Play: Siberian front, November 1918 - March 1919​

It is true that liberty is precious — so precious that it must be rationed.
-
Lenin​

Since the Battle of Simbirsk, the frontline along the Volga had been trapped in stalemate. Semenov's and Vatzetis' armies had settled comfortably into their muddy trenches at Kazan while Frunze and Grichin-Almazov were facing each other at Simbirsk. With Kamenev's army about to be transferred into the Ukraine, the Soviets had no troops to spare for an offensive on the Siberian front. In the meantime, the Siberians tried to boost their numbers with new recruits but the Red Army expanded at an even faster pace.

December 1918 saw the survivors of the Czech legion desert the Siberians. Inspite of this weakening, Kolchak ordered a new offensive. The concept for this operation was sound: two Siberian columns would outflank the main Red defensive line in an attempt to sever the vital railroad to Moscow.

When news of Makhin's forray reached the Reds, Trotzky was quick to react. Both Red frontline armies immediately dispatched a corps:* Ghai-Khan's powerful corps was withdrawn from Simbirsk, Makhin's smaller one from Kazan.** On December 5th, both joined Trotzky who now had a powerful army ready to counter Makhin's flanking march.

Yet unaware of the danger he was in, Makhin proceeded to conquer Cheboboksary while Khanzhin's smaller force made use of the breathing space Kamenev's departure had granted it to take Saransk.

It seems Makhin was content with interrupting the railway to Moscow since he spend the next three weeks sitting around at Cheboboksary. Or perhaps he was waiting for Khanzhin to reinforce him?
Trotzky hadn't immediately attacked either.*** Instead he had waited for Parsky's newly raised corps to arrive from Moscow. On January 1st, Trotzky finally ordered an offensive against Khanzhin and demanded that Parsky join him at his destination. Unfortunately, the attack was a bust. The White column managed to evade and retreat to Cheboboksary.

In the meantime Makhin had conquered Arzamas.****

Trotzky didn't give up though and dispatched Ghai-Khan with most of his army to pursue the Siberians. On January 22nd, Ghai-Khan's men attacked Cheboksary. Heavily outnumbered, Khanzhin's men ran for their life as soon as they saw their Red foes approaching. Their cowardice was wise since it enabled them to evade combat once again. The 4.000 men of the 10th Siberian Infantry Brigade that Makhin had left behind to garrison the city were less lucky, though. 52.000 Red conscripts descended upon them and slaughtered them to the last men.*****

To Trotzky's surprise, Makhin had proceeded westward. His men were approaching Nizhny-Novgorod as fast as the terrible weather allowed. When they arrived at the city on February 4th 1919, it was only guarded by 3.000 conscripts.

These inexperienced men put up a brave fight but they were no match for Makhin's battle-hardened veterans. This time it were the men with the Red star on their hats that got slaughtered.

Unknown, to the Siberians, the Red recruitment machine had already spewed out another new corps. 21.000 newly men under Ordzhonikidze had entered trains in Moscow on February 1st and were heading towards Nizhny Novgorod where they disembarked on February 6th. In the city, Makhin's men were still resting from the fighting 2 days earlier. The surprise was perfect. Panic spread amongst Siberians and for a moment they appeared destined to be annihilated. But then a heroic Komuch regiment charged Ordzhonikidze's corps in a suicidal attack. The Komuch men perished but they bought Makhin just enough time to flee with the rest of his troops.

Unfortunately, his flight led him straight into the arms of Ghai-Khan's pursuing men who were delighted to catch up with their beloved foe. A short firefight and 2.200 Siberian dead later, Makhin's starving men were running for their lifes again.

The Siberians had maneuvered themselves into a deadly trap. Caught deep behind enemy lines, their supplies trains empty and the way back to safety blocked by superior enemy forces, they appeared doomed for certain.******

In the meantime, the Siberians had steadily reinforced the main frontline. For the first time since September, both sides were of equal strength again. In this situation the infamous admiral Raskolnikov sprung to action.******* Freshly rehabilitated from his demotion, the man must have felt he had something to prove. On March 1st 1919, he ordered his entire fleet out of the safety of Kazan's harbour. His proclaimed goal: find and crush the White fleet and stop any reinforcements from crossing the Volga.

Red Volga Fleet prior to Raskolnikov's excursion
(there were a lot more transports but the screen shows all its combat ships):​

Rarely has an admiral committed such a folly. On the entire length of his route the banks of the Volga were stacked with White artillerymen itching for target practise. And target practise they should get. At first Raskolnikov's sailors still tried to fire back but soon every single gun in the fleet was silenced.

The imbecile of a Red admiral pressed on, though. Perhaps it was a deluded sense of sportsmanship urging him to give Akutin's and Grichin-Almazov's men a chance to sink some Red ships as well but more likely it was pure treachery.
When the remnants of the Red river fleet finally limped into the harbour of Kazan on March 12th, all its combat ships were missing. Of the transports about 50% had been sunk while the rest was nothing but an assortment of scrap metal. Raskolnikov had handed the Siberians control over the Volga on a silver platter.********

As usual the Red public was kept well informed:

-----------------------------------------------------
* As a reminder: what would be a "division" on the White side is named "corps" in the Red Army. Considering the size of some of these formations (e.g. Ghai-Khan's which contained more than 20.000 men) this appears fitting.
** Both the Reds and the Komuch have a general called Makhin. Mine was uglier and more incompetent, though.
*** Until the early January turn, I lacked concrete intelligence as to the strength of Makhin's force (the screenshot thus contains information, I only obtained in January). In consequence, I overestimated Makhin's strength and chose to play it save. If I had known that he had only 340 pw, I would have immediately ordered Trotzky to hunt him down.
**** Had I simply let Parsky stay where he was, Makhin's men would have run into unexpected resistance as Durk apparently wasn't aware of his presence. I lost a good opportunity here. But at the time, I figured Makhin would stay where he was after all he hadn't moved the previous turn and was about to receive Khanzhin's column as reinforcements.
***** Leaving that brigade behind, was obviously a mistake. It was too weak to offer much resistance. But Durk may have intended it as a sacrifice destined to buy Makhin time.
****** In the big picture Durk's strategy was smart: if a frontal attack won't work, a flanking move is usually the best choice. But he didn't have enough troops to seriously threaten my rear. Thus Makhin and Khanzhin's stacks became mice surrounded by deadly Red cats. Probably the cats (to stay in the metaphor) should have eaten the mice way sooner but that is the nature of cats - they like to play with their prey ...
My main worry was that the Siberians could escape back east, this is why I concentrated my forces there while I neglected to defend Arzamas and Nizhny Novgorod. I didn't mind if Durk moved his troops further away from safety.
******* Yes, this is the same man who managed to lose 4 gunboats against an inferior foe in August of 1918.
******** Obviously this was a monumentally stupid move. I know that entrenched stacks on the river banks are deadly to fleets in RUS (let's just say, I am not a first time-offender when it comes to sinking my own fleets ). I am pleading temporary insanity on this one.

 

[Thandros]

190 hits Ouch are there any ships left in that fleet. Well from the Siberian Point of view removing that fleet kinda makes up for the losses they took from their two failed probes against the Red lines.

 

[General_Hoth]

Bornego making mistakes like that? Stop the vodka

 

[loki100]

ah, so glad that others make mistakes too

this is, to keep with your metaphor, rather cat and mouse at the moment. Presume at some stage one of you will either be strong enough, or desparate enough, to try and force the pace?

 

[unmerged(305389)]

190 hits Ouch are there any ships left in that fleet. Well from the Siberian Point of view removing that fleet kinda makes up for the losses they took from their two failed probes against the Red lines.

My combat ships now form some very attractive reefs on the ground of the Volga - the tourism industry will surely thank me one day.

Of my transports ~50% survived (I think the fleet left Kazan with 6 or 7 units of transports (4 elements each), 4 units made it back but most had lost an element or two and the survivors had very few hits left).

Bornego making mistakes like that? Stop the vodka

ah, so glad that others make mistakes too

I am still wondering what got over me to order that stupid move.:wacko:

That said, mistakes like this one can provide for interesting twists. Also it's realistic, many wars have been determined by commanders making incomprehensibly bad decisions (Crassus at Carrhae, Philp VI at Crécy, the French strategy in 1940, ...). Obviously, such a loss is frustrating but in the end, I also had a lot of fun trying to overcome its consequences.

Presume at some stage one of you will either be strong enough, or desparate enough, to try and force the pace?

The balance of power in RUS is a bit like a slide, once you manage to get your opponents rolling downwards, the speed of their descend will most likely only increase.

That is why it is so hard to play the Reds. They start on a downward slide. Somehow they have to manage to stop their opponents' advances with the inadequate forces at hand. Otherwise it will be one long retreat all the way back to Moscow.

All these small battles and little successes during the autumn of 1918 and winter of 1918/1919, were essential in regaining the initiative. So yes, the next chapters will see some major Red offensives.

 

[loki100]

The balance of power in RUS is a bit like a slide, once you manage to get your opponents rolling downwards, the speed of their descend will most likely only increase.

That is why it is so hard to play the Reds. They start on a downward slide. Somehow they have to manage to stop their opponents' advances with the inadequate forces at hand. Otherwise it will be one long retreat all the way back to Moscow.

All these small battles and little successes during the autumn of 1918 and winter of 1918/1919, were essential in regaining the initiative. So yes, the next chapters will see some major Red offensives.

actually, somewhat OT, do you think the new approach that will presumably lead to a new patch, will address some of this and the perception that the game is weighted against the Reds? Problem is no one has a good idea what a reasonable spread of outcomes should be and there is a good case that if the Whites had co-operated and had sought to engage the potential anti-Bolshevik elements (but by conceeding on land reform and some degree of loss of territory from the Tsarist Empire), then the Revolution was doomed (2 big ifs I know). So that makes it hard to balance when there is no real understanding of if the Soviet victory was the most likely outcome or only came about as a result of a set of essentially random factors lining up on their side?

 

[unmerged(305389)]

Patch 1.05 already tweaks the balance in favour of the Reds (this game is played with 1.04): in the Grand Campaign the Reds now start with +10 NM and Red partial mobilization option has become more effective, while the output for the Whites has been decreased.
In my humble opinion that still isn't enough. The Soviet problem isn't conscripts anyway. It's money! ... and NM and more troops to begin with.

You bring up a valid point: what is the right balance? I would suppose one that favours a historical outcome; meaning the Reds should be more likely to win than to lose.

I agree with your what ifs. In particular a willingness to forge a compromise with the peasants over land reform could have saved the Whites. Support of the peasants was key to winning the civil war. The peasants had enough reasons to hate the Reds (requisitions, conscriptions, persecution of the church, murder of the tzar, ...). Yet the Whites were unwilling to sanction the wild land grab that the peasants had conducted in 1918/19 and that issue proved key in the situations where the Reds were on the brink of losing. When it really counted the peasants would grudingly support the Reds in order to keep the land they had gained from the nobility.
It's easy to say the Whites should have accepted these disappropriations but that was more than their supporters were willing to concede. Restoring the old (pre-revolutionary) Russia meant restoring old privileges and the former distribution of wealth as well. Giving into peasant demands would have been equal to giving up on a key wargoal. Wrangel was willing to take tentative steps into this direction but at that point the war was already lost.
Thus your ifs are very big indeed. And probably shouldn't influence game balance more than they already do (Whites get the reform special operations and two White players can coordinate their moves in a PBEM - at least to some degree).

The strange thing about RUS is that it takes "what ifs" only into account when it comes to the Whites. There are multiple such issues for the Reds as well, for example Cossacks and other minorities could have been pacified if the Reds had made concessions or at least kept Stalin and Ordzhonikidze in check (the terror those two unleashed around Tzaritsyn pushed a lot of Cossacks to join the White armies).
But what I miss most in this game are the reforms the Reds actually implemented; in particular Trotzky's military reforms and the New Economic Policy (NEP didn't come before 1921, but it would make for an interesting ahistorical option if it were possible to introduce it earlier).

Perhaps one final thought: It can be fun if a scenario isn't completely balanced. For one it makes playing the AI with the Reds more challenging. And in multiplayer games, it is always possible to even the odds by putting a stronger/more experienced player on the weaker side.
Moreover it can make for great games when the different sides have distinct strengths and weaknesses. This is pretty much the case with all AGEOD games: It's an exiting challenge to fight with the crap generals and low quality armies the Reds get in RUS. The same is true of the Prussians in RoP, they may be few but they have excellent generals, good quality and interior lines. Or WiA where fast moving Indians can run circles around big British armies.

 

[Stuyvesant]

I liked that chase around Simbirsk-Nizhniy Novgorod (it reminds me a bit of the customary Benny Hill chase at the end of each episode - minus the massive bloodshed, of course). And your Volga sortie... Let's just say it was an inspired move. Inspired by what, I'm not sure, but inspired, nonetheless.