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Again with my Khazar examples, after the First Arab-Khazar war the Ummayads and Khazars had a royal marriage to bring around peace.

The only thing I read about the subject was the wikipedia page:

"The 737 campaign marked the end of large-scale warfare between the two powers, establishing Derbent as the northernmost Muslim outpost and securing Muslim dominance over Transcaucasia. At the same time, the long wars weakened the Umayyad army and contributed to the eventual fall of the dynasty a few years later. Relations between the Muslims of the Caucasus and the Khazars remained largely peaceful thereafter, apart from two Khazar raids in the 760s and in 799, each resulting from FAILED EFFORTS to secure a marriage alliance between the Arab governors of the Caucasus and the Khazar khagan. Occasional warfare continued in the region between the Khazars and the local Muslim principalities of the Caucasus until the collapse of the Khazar state in the late 10th century, but the great wars of the 8th century were never repeated."

It mentions a failed atempt, so if a marriage between one of the governors and the khazar khagan indeed took place, there's still the question about who was involved in the marriage, by that I mean if the woman was from the khazars or the arabs. Considering that the arabs had superior strength at the same I find hard to believe that they would give a muslim woman in marriage to them.

"From the time of the Umayyad conquest of Hispania and throughout the Reconquista, Spanish royals married Muslim Umayyad princesses, to seal trade treaties between Christian kings and muslim caliphs. Through these marriages, such as that of Alfonso VI of León and Castile and Zaida of Seville, it is believed that most Europrean royalty can trace their ancestry back to the family of the prophet Muhammad, though this remains controversial."

"The marriages of Ottoman sultans and their sons in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries tended to be with members of the ruling dynasties of neighboring powers. With little regard for religion, the sultans contracted marriages with both Christians and Muslims; the purpose of these royal intermarriages were purely tactical. The Christian Byzantines and Serbians, as well as the Muslim beyliks of Germiyan, Saruhan, Karaman and Dulkadir were all potential enemies and marriage was seen as a way of securing alliances with them. Marriage with foreign dynasties seems to have ceased in 1504, with the last marriage of a sultan being that of Murad II and Mara Branković, daughter of the Serbian ruler Đurađ Branković, in 1435."

Richard proposed his sister to marry Saladin's brother. Byzantium Kamenos married daughters to Muslims.

So while I agree that Muslim women married Christians less frequently, but those marriages existed. Especially when Muslims felt threatened by Christians.

First, like I said in my post, there would be no problem for muslim men, like the Ottoman sultans and princes, and Saladin's brother to marry a christian woman, it's allowed.

Second, the example of Zaida is not relevant here because:

A) she was a refugee, she was not in a muslim court
B) it is debatable if she married Alfonso or was just his mistress
C) she converted to catholicism and adopted the name of Isabel

All of these are already possible with the current game mechanics.

And last, I never said marriages between muslim women and non muslim men never happened but they were rare and mostly ocurred like you said when muslims feared christians, so if these interreligious marriages were implemented they should be restricted to these situations and also carry a huge prestige and piety loss to muslim rulers because it would mean to his vassals and other muslim rulers, that this ruler is so weak and impious he's willing to give his daughter or sister to concubinage to save himself.

A zealous muslim ruler would rather die than give a muslim woman to a non muslim man, and whereas a cynical man might not have a personal problem he would still care what his vassals and subjects would think of him.
 
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I'd support this. I came back to the game after taking some time off after Republics and it annoys me that you can't intermarry religions. Maybe you can't it your zealous? Otherwise it should just be hard to get them to agree to it.
 
The only thing I read about the subject was the wikipedia page:

"The 737 campaign marked the end of large-scale warfare between the two powers, establishing Derbent as the northernmost Muslim outpost and securing Muslim dominance over Transcaucasia. At the same time, the long wars weakened the Umayyad army and contributed to the eventual fall of the dynasty a few years later. Relations between the Muslims of the Caucasus and the Khazars remained largely peaceful thereafter, apart from two Khazar raids in the 760s and in 799, each resulting from FAILED EFFORTS to secure a marriage alliance between the Arab governors of the Caucasus and the Khazar khagan. Occasional warfare continued in the region between the Khazars and the local Muslim principalities of the Caucasus until the collapse of the Khazar state in the late 10th century, but the great wars of the 8th century were never repeated."

It mentions a failed atempt, so if a marriage between one of the governors and the khazar khagan indeed took place, there's still the question about who was involved in the marriage, by that I mean if the woman was from the khazars or the arabs. Considering that the arabs had superior strength at the same I find hard to believe that they would give a muslim woman in marriage to them.
In a book I have, called "the Jews of Khazaria" it mentions a marriage which did work out, but doesn't say who was Muslim.
 
+1

I read in John Julius Norwich's books on the Norman Kingdom of Sicily that that King Rogers (I? II? Both?) had Muslim harems in Palermo. He also had almost esclusively Muslim and Jewish advisors. Why can't I have any in the game?

I am sure after the Norman conquest of Sicily, Roger had a great numbers of prisoners to pick any slaves he wanted as concubines. This is not marriage, and is easily doable, just change a no to yes in consort wives and decide how many you want.
 
Very strange indeed

+1

Can someone tell me why my Sunni daughter cannot marry my Sunni neighbor? Its kind of ridiculous... I get this "must not marry an infidel" answer, so I managed to get sunni man in my court (not an easy task by itself!) gave him my daughter to mentor her in the ways of Sunni. Now she IS Sunni and still an infidel?

Why is this game so restrictive? Maybe players shouldn't make any decision at all, just watch how perfect Clausewitz Engine is?
 
I think that it's not interfaith marriages that are impossible, but getting someone from a different religion to give you a marriage. I once tried to get a catholic courtier in a Shia court to marry one of my courtiers(catholic kingdom) and had that.
 
I think currently it's overly restrictive. I see why having it reasonably restricted is a good thing, but even if convert an entire branch of my dynasty to Buddhism, I can't marry them off to any Buddhists because I still get the infidel marriage line. I'm not sure if the culture has to match too? At any rate, its sort of ridiculous that an entire cadet branch of my dynasty is Buddhist, and all Buddhists, even those who have been in my prison, still have this modifier. In another instance, I'm trying to save Zoroastrianism which is down to one county (that they don't control), but the infidel modifier makes it virtually impossible to marry any of them, meaning I can't set up an independent kingdom of Zoroastrianism to keep their religion intact without making it absolutely massive (since I can't intervene in wars to help them). So barring a minor miracle with conversion via education, they're probably doomed to go extinct because of themselves. Personally I think it's ridiculous I can have positive relations with the over half of the remaining people who are Zoroastrian, but none of them want to take steps to preserve their religion.
 
+1

Can someone tell me why my Sunni daughter cannot marry my Sunni neighbor? Its kind of ridiculous... I get this "must not marry an infidel" answer, so I managed to get sunni man in my court (not an easy task by itself!) gave him my daughter to mentor her in the ways of Sunni. Now she IS Sunni and still an infidel?

I believe that it's because the religion of the liege matters.
 
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I think currently it's overly restrictive. I see why having it reasonably restricted is a good thing, but even if convert an entire branch of my dynasty to Buddhism, I can't marry them off to any Buddhists because I still get the infidel marriage line. I'm not sure if the culture has to match too? At any rate, its sort of ridiculous that an entire cadet branch of my dynasty is Buddhist, and all Buddhists, even those who have been in my prison, still have this modifier.
The tooltip is a bit misleading. It's actually complaining that *you* (the liege attempting to arrange marriage) aren't Buddhist.
In another instance, I'm trying to save Zoroastrianism which is down to one county (that they don't control), but the infidel modifier makes it virtually impossible to marry any of them, meaning I can't set up an independent kingdom of Zoroastrianism to keep their religion intact without making it absolutely massive (since I can't intervene in wars to help them). So barring a minor miracle with conversion via education, they're probably doomed to go extinct because of themselves. Personally I think it's ridiculous I can have positive relations with the over half of the remaining people who are Zoroastrian, but none of them want to take steps to preserve their religion.
The game AI isn't that deep, that it can figure out the religion may be going extinct and then let up on it's marriage requirements to save it. Also, you relations with others have no effect, only your relations with the specific ruler you're negotiating with.
 
+1

I read in John Julius Norwich's books on the Norman Kingdom of Sicily that that King Rogers (I? II? Both?) had Muslim harems in Palermo. He also had almost esclusively Muslim and Jewish advisors. Why can't I have any in the game?

Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II, the grandson of Roger II, was accused by the pope of keeping a harem (and was generally very skeptical of the church and had a very cosmopolitan sicilian worldview so I wouldn't put it past him)

"One month later, Innocent IV declared Frederick to be deposed as emperor, characterising him as a "friend of Babylon's sultan", "of Saracen customs", "provided with a harem guarded by eunuchs" like the schismatic emperor of Byzantium, and in sum a "heretic"."
 
Just throwing my support behind it. Especially with new way of life DLC coming out to increase roleplayability. Interfaith marriages need to be a thing. Work something out with Zealous and sympathy traits.
 
Is this mod still available anywhere? The file seems to have been deleted in the link provided.

I suggest registering your game, and searching the user mod forum (you need to register to access)

Also its best not to reanimate old threads - just make a new topic.
 
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