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You probably want to look up Richard Lionheart's crusading and 30 Years War and then retract that obviously incorrect comment.

If anything, the supply limit should grow as time passes, due to better local technology (agriculture, etc) and better invader's technology (supply organization).

Lionhearth crusade is something particular...also like making war in the middle of nothing...
For the Europe itself isn't so common to have a huge supply system in middleages. Often feudal armies take food from storage of castles/keeps/cities/holdings captured or that open their gates to them. Also CK2 can't simulate that the warfare was strictly "seasonal"...

However, I noticed that in over 2 centuries of game, the supply limit grows...
 
I'm really curious what happened to the Great Upstart Empire of Landed Relatives - OP, would you mind playing another 100 years and coming back to post?

As for the original topic, yeah, holy war is strong. But it's not exclusive to Muslims. You basically got lucky with the ERE fragmenting and stomped a bunch of little guys, with huge same-religion empires at your back helping you out - being Muslim had nothing to do with it. Heck, in that situation, my dog could do nearly as well (not the mutt, the Shiba Inu).
 
Well I was probably going to stop and play some other game but since everyone thinks decadence will hurt me in 100 years I think I'll keep going just to see what the big deal is.

Yeah I did get lucky with the ERE rebelling but if I was the same religion for example I'd have to get a bunch of claimants in order to take over all the duchies, and then there's also a very good chance my same-religion allies wouldn't have wanted to help me take them over. In fact in my last game I took over France during which they had a succession crisis but I had to take over the Kingdom as a vassal and not the duchies individually, plus I had to do it alone, and this was when I already had 150k stacks myself. NOT as a 15 county Kingdom in 1080s.
 
True. I guess my point was that it doesn't matter that you happened to be Muslim; whenever I see a large nation fragment I try to jump them if I'm a different religion, and if I'm in the neighborhood (so to speak).
 
Well I was probably going to stop and play some other game but since everyone thinks decadence will hurt me in 100 years I think I'll keep going just to see what the big deal is.

Yeah I did get lucky with the ERE rebelling but if I was the same religion for example I'd have to get a bunch of claimants in order to take over all the duchies, and then there's also a very good chance my same-religion allies wouldn't have wanted to help me take them over. In fact in my last game I took over France during which they had a succession crisis but I had to take over the Kingdom as a vassal and not the duchies individually, plus I had to do it alone, and this was when I already had 150k stacks myself. NOT as a 15 county Kingdom in 1080s.

But the same would have applied if, for example, the Fatimids suffer a huge civil war and you, as a Christian Duke, take the chance to pick on the small emirates with the help of the HRE and the ERE. Being Muslim has nothing to do with it... if you get the opportunity you can also do it as a Christian.

And regarding decadence, I think you can control it, but it´ll be a lot of micromanagement to do so. I would be more concerned about the large amount of no-levy producing land you own now. If something bad happens and you lose your alliances, you´ll be ripe for the ERE to take if it recovers from the civil war.
 
Thing is there's something to be said about early game here.. if I'm understanding correctly right off the bat very few Christian kingdoms will have a bunch of prince/princesses, so it will be hard to get an alliance with them. Plus the only real powerful realms close to Muslims are France and HRE. The Catholics are definitely pretty far from the Sunnis as well except by sea.

Orthodox on the other hand are in a really bad spot, they only have the Byzantines and everyone else is a weakling or landlocked or both. Which means as Orthodox if you're doing Holy War you better be accessible by sea if you want the Byzantine to help you. With Muslim in the beginning EVERY land you're going to invade is accessible by sea which means getting help is extremely likely, PLUS the Egyptians and the Persians are ginormous and can stomp pretty much anyone.

So my point is that it's normally a lot harder to take advantage of a country doing a succession crisis unless you yourself have all the troops. Letting your allies do it for you is what makes it so stupid easy.
 
It is manageable but only if you know what you are doing. The OP obviously doesn't if he doesn't take decadence seriously enough yet. Though if he reads enough threads or figures out it out himself then it is barely manageable even with the mistakes he has already made.

As for holding out until his lands provide enough levies, well that's what allies are for :). Hope it lasts long enough until then...
 
No offense OP, but the whole "I've only played for 100 years and was going to stop, but instead I made a thread about OP Muslims" is kinda getting old. The game lasts for much longer than 100 years, Muslims are designed to be strong early and fade later. If you play one game then stop after 100 years you really don't need to make a thread about your "understanding" of game mechanics.

Now obviously the game is far from perfect from a balance standpoint, but do we really need 5 new threads a week from new players playing 100 years into their first game and complaining? Probably not.
 
I only had a chance to play through about 30 years today (left off just a few years after Knights Hospitalier formed), still on the same king as yesterday (2nd king of the dynasty) and I'm only 7 provinces away from usurping the title of Byzantine Emperor. I ran out of unlanded dynasty members to give counties out to, and I didn't feel like having them have 5+ counties each so instead I started giving away counties to Content realm members from Minor Houses (meaning they're the only ones in the dynasty, thus 25% decadence).

When I left off I had 28% decadence with 0.11% yearly grow rate so I'm not worried, most of my half-brothers are in jail already (rebelling scum) and half of them didn't even have sons so the holdings just go back to me when they die. Virtually all of my counties belong to a single minor house county member, maybe 20% belong to dynasty members, and just a few provinces belong to their original owners since I used Conquest and Invasion CBs every once in a while to get more provinces faster.. but it's been non-stop war after war as I try to rush the Byzantine Emperor title before my King dies so that I don't get penalized for "not my de jure liege" for my heir.

By the way my heir has 24 stewardship, he somehow had a base 10 stewardship + midas touched + a few other stats. I didn't even think it was possible to have base 10 stats?
 
Thing is there's something to be said about early game here..

I think there would be a strong case for adding a whole bunch of extra alliances to the early game to stop/reduce the early blood bath. For example give ERE an alliance with Hungary, help out Alan & Iberian Catholics etc. That way the Muslims and other very aggressive early game countries would find it harder to expand so much immediately, giving more time for the natural alliance mechanisms to kick in and less likely they'll get kicked down early and be unable to recover.
 
I don't think the early game is that bad. In my games, the Muslims win about half the time and Christians win the other half of the time, it really doesn't feel like either side is overpowered.
 
Yea another problem is the whole iberia Issue.....before sword of islam ill take maybe 50-100 years to conquer iberia....both Christian and Muslim now im lucky if only all of Muslim Iberia comes after me.....ALL MUSLIMS COME FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.....One minute im conquering a one providence minor and out of nowhere a whole 17k army appears.....
 
Well I was probably going to stop and play some other game but since everyone thinks decadence will hurt me in 100 years I think I'll keep going just to see what the big deal is.

Decadence management isn't hard, just tedious, you can have loads of landed dynasty members and be fine as long as you keep conquering. You can only run into major issues once you rule the world as you dynasty continues to grow and you have no new land to give, or battles/sieges to fight. Giving newly conquered counties, 1 each to three under aged cousins is fun though, usually one will die before maturity, especially if they have different mothers.

The simplest fix seems to be don't let any religion HW CB vassals who are allies in a SC. It would be ok to HW the primary participants or CB to press claims, but I've used this before to pick off Byzantines especially, things like border duchies who join the claimant to the throne as allies such as Armenia are easy to pick off for external powers, or 1-2 county allies of a claimant. Alternatively for a SC, make all participants join their ally an make him their liege. Thus instead of 20 factions in ERE in a SC, you have the owner of the throne, and 2 claimants at war with him and each other. It's much harder to win a HW vs someone w/ 1/4-1/2 of the empire than it is to conquer to counties and force a surrender at 100%.
 
Well guys I played probably 50 more years since the OP and I took over most of the ERE, usurped the title (with the heir of the first Emir, so only on my 2nd ruler here) and then my ruler died of old age a few years later and I took over as the 3rd ruler. Just 2 years or so of cleaning up various rebelling Sheikhs and I was good to go. No succession crisises or anything like that. Decadence is at 19% and +0.19%. Honestly I don't see what the big deal is, I have 4 or less people generating decadence at any time and I try to keep all adults in jail, giving out titles to underaged people (my own sons preferrable since I can't jail them for free), if you do this fast enough you can even catch them before they have any sons and when they die in prison the lands just go back to you.. Rinse and repeat to reduce your decadence rating.

Plus not to mention all the events you can do like Ramadan or whatnot to lose a bunch of decadence (that's how I dipped below 20%) for really cheap once you have a whole empire at your feet.

Heck the only big mistake I made all game is accidentally letting the wrong culture son become the new Emperor (Maghreb instead of Bedouin) which made a few more people rebel than necessary since I installed all Bedouin counts. Next heir I'm going back to Bedouin (married all my wives to be genius Bedouin and one Midas Touched descending from Muhammed as a wildcard, but unfortunately not a genius). Have like 20 titles in reserve I can create and give out, but most of the counts are vassals directly to me.

Honestly I don't see how this game isn't trivially over at this point, I can take over the western Muslims easily (and the Egyptians won't care since I'm allied with them, or I can just wait for a war where I side with them to be doubly safe) and then gobble up the smaller Christian kingdoms. On the eastern side I probably just want the lands north of the ERE to let the TGH have it, maybe they'll even fight the HRE for me if they get that far...

The only thing I can say about Holy War is that its usefulness seems to diminish later since as far as I can tell it destroys all buildings within a province, so it takes forever to build new ones. Great for getting a bunch of piety, not so great for getting a bunch more levy.

The real annoyance here is that every time I raise levy/fleet I have to spend forever clicking on each one to embark them onto a fleet. Unless there's some kind of auto raise and embark option I'm missing, I think that alone is going to make me stop playing very soon. Too tedious... too tedious.

Decadence management isn't hard, just tedious, you can have loads of landed dynasty members and be fine as long as you keep conquering. You can only run into major issues
once you rule the world as you dynasty continues to grow and you have no new land to give, or battles/sieges to fight. Giving newly conquered counties, 1 each to three under aged cousins is fun though, usually one will die before maturity, especially if they have different mothers.

The simplest fix seems to be don't let any religion HW CB vassals who are allies in a SC. It would be ok to HW the primary participants or CB to press claims, but I've used this before to pick off Byzantines especially, things like border duchies who join the claimant to the throne as allies such as Armenia are easy to pick off for external powers, or 1-2 county allies of a claimant. Alternatively for a SC, make all participants join their ally an make him their liege. Thus instead of 20 factions in ERE in a SC, you have the owner of the throne, and 2 claimants at war with him and each other. It's much harder to win a HW vs someone w/ 1/4-1/2 of the empire than it is to conquer to counties and force a surrender at 100%.

Huh? I don't think I really understood that with all the acronyms being through around. SC = succession crisis? In my OP I said I holy warred all the duchies of ERE in a succession crisis (except the one who called the war), isn't that the same from what you're suggesting?
 
Huh? I don't think I really understood that with all the acronyms being through around. SC = succession crisis? In my OP I said I holy warred all the duchies of ERE in a succession crisis (except the one who called the war), isn't that the same from what you're suggesting?

Was suggesting a way to fix it, don't ally holy wars vs sides involved in a succession crisis or make vassals supporting someone in a succession crisis form a country with the ruler they are supporting. That way instead of 10 independant dukes who are allies of the claimant in your ERE succession crisis scenario there would be a ERE and a second side trying to claim ERE. Its a lot harder to holy war that and even if you do you could only get one duchy.
 
Have like 20 titles in reserve I can create and give out, but most of the counts are vassals directly to me.

You haven't created all duchies under your primary title? So you are abusing game mechanics, to ensure that you can keep decadence as low as possible...

It is over if you are not going to do what a ruler would do.

You are now an emperor? And your highest level vassal is a count.

Yes, holy war can mean you can holy war individual dukes/counts who are revolting and grab alot of land quickly, but as I previously stated this can be done both ways.

Noone can make you keep playing, but you also need to remember you are a human Vs AI, the AI does not play like a human, who is willing to abuse mechanics to get ahead.

Just to clarify, there is nothing wrong with abusing mechanics, if this is how you want to play. But this is definately not overpowered in anyway.
 
Was suggesting a way to fix it, don't ally holy wars vs sides involved in a succession crisis or make vassals supporting someone in a succession crisis form a country with the ruler they are supporting. That way instead of 10 independant dukes who are allies of the claimant in your ERE succession crisis scenario there would be a ERE and a second side trying to claim ERE. Its a lot harder to holy war that and even if you do you could only get one duchy.

I think I see what you're saying.. don't let the Succession Crisis end (in which case the ERE will reform)? That's basically what I did for as long as possible, I took over 60-70% of ERE by helping the original ERE by taking off siege from their lands. Eventually I got a bit sloppy and the person who led the SC won and took them over, but by then they only had 10-12 provinces left and were weaklings. It only made things take a little bit more time that's all. If only they could have hired Holy Orders maybe they would've stood a chance :)

You haven't created all duchies under your primary title? So you are abusing game mechanics, to ensure that you can keep decadence as low as possible...

It is over if you are not going to do what a ruler would do.

You are now an emperor? And your highest level vassal is a count.

Yes, holy war can mean you can holy war individual dukes/counts who are revolting and grab alot of land quickly, but as I previously stated this can be done both ways.

Noone can make you keep playing, but you also need to remember you are a human Vs AI, the AI does not play like a human, who is willing to abuse mechanics to get ahead.

Just to clarify, there is nothing wrong with abusing mechanics, if this is how you want to play. But this is definately not overpowered in anyway.

I don't see how I'm "abusing" game mechanics by not creating all titles, there's probably 20+ duchies, 4+ kingdoms I haven't created and I just don't have the money to create all of them. Maybe if the titles were free..

I have a few vassals that are dukes incidentally, I try to strip them of their duke titles when they go to jail so they don't get too cocky and expand.

But yeah of course I'm going to take advantage of all the game mechanics in the best possible way I know how.. so when I take over the largest Empire (I checked, its 1 province larger than the next largest Empire) from a starting point of a single 4-county Duchy I think I get the right to say its just at least somewhat overpowered.
 
The thing is, you've given counties to dynasty members. In a generation or two, they will be completely out of your control and, depending on a lot of different factors, the decadence will add up FAST.
I'm pretty sure you only get decadency from direct vassals and courtiers. Every time one of my uncles dies I have a lot of unlanded relatives in my religion tab.

IN any case, one Jihad or Invasion will give you enough land to take your decadency from 70% to 20%. The real problem is, if you don't have enough relatives, you'll wind up with some super powerful Emirs.
 
Well apparently even though I accidentally switched culture from Bedouin to Maghreb this actually helped me since I instantly vassalized the rest of the Emirates in Africa (3 total) that weren't under a Sultanate already. Then I noticed there were Heretics in Ireland so I launched a Holy War and then took over the rest of Ireland through Conquest.

Game's pretty much over I have 50k levy and the next strongest is HRE with 60k but if they attacked me at all I would just call the Egyptians and Persians and GG them (plus most of their stuff is landlocked whereas most of my stuff is next to the ocean = I can mobilize troops faster and wipe out their stacks by myself through superior troop movement if I had to). I see no reason to play any further with this realm since I'm spending most of my "wars" manually loading the troops onto ships. Perhaps if the game had a "raise and go to closest ship" button I would actually find it more fun to build large empires.