[MOD] Twilight of the Gods, hardcore DH1.04 gameplay GER vs USSR

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http://speedy.sh/KxVGh/GER-tanks.xlsx
However remember, that this isn't everything. I chose vehicles to my mod, so I skip some of them and added some ahistorical, but quite possible tanks for postwar period.

Thank you!

I tried to PM you but I'm still not too familiar with this new forum software, so I started a conversation and again tried to attach my file but had to just add it as text to the message. Hope it helps you as your file will no doubt help me.

Cheers,
 
Keep up the excellent work Nova "granddad" paddy :) can't wait to try this new mod of yours out. Any update as to when you might have "Homeland" ready for DH 1.04? just curious as usual :)

Hello mikey1871. In reply as usual I got distracted into other things. How are things with your shoulder? Did you see the work Sayd did on the E3 map recently? It was excellent.
 
Hello mikey1871. In reply as usual I got distracted into other things. How are things with your shoulder? Did you see the work Sayd did on the E3 map recently? It was excellent.
First off.... Happy Father's Day to you Nova and all the other Dad's who play DH!!!!!

Shoulder is getting better slowly. Well Sayd and you and most people are much more efficient at working on DH than old me certainly is haha
 
Well, have you any idea how many models of tanks and other armoured vehicles there were for those 12 years. Lots and lots.

I think the mod will be much more intense than the normal. You won't be able to fast forward this mod and watch it happen. Gameplay will stop and ask you for a Decision.

Anyway, who knows, I can always add on more units and more years in either direction as time goes by...

EDIT: 1933 start as the panzer units start here when the first prototypes were built. That is my focus. EoD or WIF2 is a secondary aspect. I only mentioned these to give the reader an idea of what I want to achieve. A comparison.

I got the idea when "fixing" WIF2 for Dh1.04. So in my mind, this mod will be WIf2 on steriods...
OHH mikey LOVEs idea of Armor on steroids hahahahaha :D
 
Hello mikey1871!

I noticed lots of spare room on the secret_weapons page in the techs, so I've pushed all those techs up and off to the right side. This gives me 2 full columns and about half the page across left free for my own uses.

evil laugh here.
 
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Hello mikey1871!

I noticed lots of spare room on the secret_weapons page in the techs, so I've pushed all those techs up and off to the right side. This gives me 2 full columns and about half the page across left free for my own uses.

evil laugh here.
YES!!!!!!!!! research for centuries hahahahahaha :p wait, just a thought, but can you link your game up to FOOD timeframe lol just joking.
 
UPDATE:

I've been beavering away trying different ideas to achieve my goals as regards techs and units. Most ideas have eventually fallen by the wayside, with me only taking a part of the idea to use and take forward to include in the next idea. I've had success at last.

My goal is to have more techs, but not have them in a confusing mess on the page.

Of course now that we can hover over the tech button, there is no need for the name of the tech to be on the button at all. And with us being so used to using phones now, with little buttons to press....

What I'm showing you today is the result of a first test. A trial to see if it worked and how it looked.

Just recognise the possibilities... if you will.

OK, I've carried on and made a decent job of it. Here is the vanilla DH Infantry page with all the vanilla techs displayed.

O0jy4Qg.jpg
 
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nova ..
I have been watching this thread with interest because it is exactly the kind of thing I am always playing around with .. especially for German armored forces
I was thinking about doing a really detailed breakdown of PZ, PG, PZ REC, SP GUNS, etc. but I have been rethinking things somewhat for the following reasons and I would be interested to know your thoughts.
At Sep 1939 there were 34 Pz-Bns averaging 79 tanks per bn. The breakdown of the 34 bns is roughly as follows:
12 x Pz I
16 x Pz II
1 x Pz III
1 x Pz 35t
1 x Pz 38t
3 x Pz IV
= 34 Pz-Bns
The Pz-Is are 50/50 model IA and IB – both armed with 2x MG13
The Pz-IIs are from models a1(10), a2(15), a3(50), b(25), c(200), A(100), B(200), C(100), D(80), and E(163) – all armed with 20mm 30 L/55 + 1 MG34
The Pz-IIIs are from models A(10), B(15), C(15), D(30) and E(96) – all armed with 37mm 36 L/46,5 + 3x MG34
The Pz-IVs are from models A(35), B(42) and C(134) armed with 75mm 37 L/24 + 2 MG34 for A and + 1 MG34 for B and C
That is 20 models in 34 battalions. So how do the 20 models help me play DH? I don’t know how to use them. This is company level stuff. I am beginning to think that I need to model the RGT level based on the proper model mix:
PZ-RGT model 1 = Pz I + Pz II
PZ-RGT model 2 = Pz 35t/38t + Pz II
PZ-RGT model 3 = Pz II + Pz III + Pz IV
This is the real way the units were used.
Or do it by battalion of one model broken down only by armament type but not sub models.
Pz I 2x MG13
Pz II 20mm 30 L/55
Pz II 20mm 38 L/55
Pz III 37mm 36 L/46,5
Pz III 50mm 38 L/42
Pz III 50mm 39 L/60
Pz III 75mm 37 L/24
Pz IV 75mm 37 L/24
Pz IV 75mm 40 L/43
Pz IV 75mm 40 L/48
Pv V Panther 75mm 42 L/70
Pz VI Tiger 88mm 36 L/71
Pz VI Tiger II 88mm 43 L/71
Pz 35t 37mm 34 L/40
Pz 38t 37mm 38 L/47,8
Anyway, I am wondering how you are going to actually use all of the little sub models of the various units. Do you have some trick up your sleeve?
 
OK, Hendricks thanks for asking a very good question.

First thing, this is a mod "in development", meaning I'm still working on ideas and trying to get them to work in the game.
Lots of guys want much more detail on tanks and especially the German and Russian types. I share that itch.

On the itch to have much more details, as regards possibly gun type, different model of panzer etc and have THAT have an effect in the game. It can be done.

Please realise that right now in dh, when you research an armour tech, you are ONLY researching a new model. It does nothing other than give you a new model. That new model is only different in the parameters set up in the unit files, which can be very small effects. Go look in the tech files!

If I remember correctly, the most common German tank in ww2 was the PzIV, yet in the dh tech tree, it hardly gets a mention and it may even be sharing its mention with the PzIII? What use is that? Lots of tanks are simply missed or passed over.

Anyway...

So, to your question, what difference will having one model of tank or another make to the mod?

Well I have all the tanks books and information I need to make a good job of this. First the player will need to research the SdKfz101 to get a Pz1A. If he leaves the model at A and does not progress to model B, which had a longer chassis and one more wheel, he will not be able to have all those variants of other units which used the PzI model B chassis: 15cm sIG33 40, the Panzerjaeger PaK 40 come to mind, among others being possibly flamethrower and munition carrier models?

If the player does not invade and conquer CZE, he will not have the Pz35(t)/Pz38(t) and all the models that came from that: The Marder III and the Grille etc.

Going from say a 7.5cm KwK L/24 to a 7.5cm KwK L/48 for the PzIV, gave the gun a higher velocity, so it could take on the enemy tanks and destroy them, whereas with the L/24 it could not so easily. So, this will be reflected in the PzIV having a higher hard_attack rating with the new L/48 gun.

I don't as yet have all the answers, even to my own questions, why? well I've been working on solving one major problem and yesterday I solved it to my satisfaction. I could have just used decisions and events to have the different models, but for the player, he has no record of what model he is on, so that is why I needed to have some reference on the tech page.

All tanks will have to be researched as prototypes, then as different models if the player chooses to. He does not HAVE to. It is up to him. So for the later tanks like the Tiger I, he may choose to take the earlier prototype models instead and build them, giving him a heavy tank at an earlier date in the game.


THE TECH PAGES:

I am leaving the original techs as they are, simply because the AI and events are all tied to these. Some pages will be extended, for instance the Armour tech page will have all the GER and SOV tanks listed, Possibly the USA and ENG as well, if I have room. This is in addition to the vanilla techs. So the new techs for the GER player will give him the abiity to:

build the exact model of panzer
have panzer brigades and regiments as they were historically
fight solely panzer to soviet tank battles
panzer regiments and brigades as individual units on the map, not just attached, I mean free units
different models of gun giving varying hard_attack, or whatever
different chassis gives historical variants
as much as I can: build the historical panzer divisions with regiments of tanks and brigades of mot etc.
only have tank divisions available as they were historically, near the end of ww2
GER has panzer divisions in ? 1938
everyone else has ARM only as attachments to infantry units for most of the war.

So Yes, I too want to have all the technical details included and having varying effects happen in the game. If you have any more questions or if I have missed out on something, please let me know. Right now, I'm full steam ahead on this mod as I have overcome the major problem that was holding me back.

I've been researching and trying different ideas for months now. But nothing was fully satisfactory to me until yesterday.But all this does is give the player a choice to do this, he does not have to. He can play dh in the E3 map as vanilla, or with all the extra detail, it is up to him.

Yes I do have other new ideas as how I am going to do this. It works!

Cheers

EDIT: To build a panzer division:

I can build a Pz1 regiment and keep it in my locker.
I can build a PzII regiment and also keep it.
I can build an MOT brigade and keep it.
I can build a PzI HQ unit to include all the other sub-units like logistics, medical etc.
I can build one other (total is 5) unit as I desire.

These are all in my locker, waiting.

I can then build a REGT or BRIG or DIV recruit unit and put this on the map.
To make my panzer division, I then simply attach the above to this recruit unit.
I now have a panzer division including all the desired and historical parts, as much as I possibly can do in dh.
I can see the different parts of the panzer division unit, as their "brigade" icons are visible in the unit gui. I can even swap them out as desired, a PzI for another PzII...

Other than this, I CAN simply place the unit on the map and it is now a free, independent unit, which for instance as an Arm Regt, I can go chase partizans, or go guard a port, or go battle a soviet unit of similar size, or whatever I want to do. With the E3 map, I have lots of more choices of where to go.
 
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So is this what you are thinking?

Looking at the PzI from the top down:

sIG33 auf Pz IB tech – these were assigned to PzDiv at company level so no new unit activated but required for 1940 PzDiv tech?
- requires PzIB tech
- requires sIG33 tech (development started 1927/production started 1936)

PzJg I Ausf.B tech – this would activate a new PzJg Bn
- requires PzIB tech
- requires 47mm PaK(t) tech (development 1936/production 1939)

Flakpz I Ausf.A tech – only 24 built and assigned to a InfBn(mot) – so no new unit activated but required for other SPAA techs?
- requires PzIA tech
- requires 20 mm FlaK38 tech (developed 1931?/production 1934)

Pz I Ausf.B – value the same as PzIA so no new unit but enables tech for SP sIG33 and PzJg I
- requires PzIA tech

Pz I Ausf.A – activates PzI tank regiment, enables PzIB tech and Flakpz I tech
- requires MG13 tech (developed 1928/production 1930)

~H
 
I see all the panzer types Pz1, Pz2 and so on, being either independent units on the map or being attached to a larger Brig or Div. They will be Regts.
For a larger map, it does not make sense to have Divs guarding ports, or hunting partizans, so a Regt or Brig sounds more sensible to me. Also with more provinces, you need smaller units to fill the map and enable your armies to be spread over huge areas.

I see their tank chassis being used to create variants of for instance the PzII, spart, td, maybe flamethrower, and HQ variants possibly.

I see the Pz1C being a Recon tank, as it was fast at 80 kmh. The Pz1B being the chassis for variants (whatever was historical I will follow), the Pz1 the same.

I don't see the PzIII having all the different models, just too many. But yes for the main models, the ones that were built the most.

I see the Pz1 / PzII being a HQ tank. All the Pz units being able to last for the whole of ww2. So a 1944 panzer division may have a PzIII or PzII HQ unit. Models don't upgrade as in dh, I mean automatically.

The same for the soviets, in their historical fashion.

I see a siG33 unit being created from a PzIB chassis and becoming a free or attached unit, so it can be added to a panzer div if the player wants to.

ALL the dh brigades can be independent units, but possibly some are not suited to be.

So, tanks, spart, td, whatever units can be independent units, can be also attached or whatever the player wants to do. So a Grille or Flakpanzer or Hetzer unit on the map.

Later for the Panther or Tiger prototypes, I see the player either following historical choices, or making his own. I mean using the early prototype instead of waiting for Hitler to approve the perfect example. ...

I aim to have the tank suspension and gun type to be a tech which leads to a new tank type or model with different parameters which will make a difference. I am not limited to the dh parameters, but I must respect them as they are already balanced, so I don't want to upset the applecart.. too much.

I'm aiming for lots of detail and more detail. I'm creating units in a different way to achieve this.

TECHS:

I have not settled on a plan yet, as really only yesterday did I get over a hump that was delaying everything.

But in my mind, I see the player researching a Sdkfz 101, which becomes the Pz1, there may be a Pz1 tech team, as long as this tech team exists, the player can build a Pz1 and variants and models, whatever.
Next tech, Sdkfz 121 prototype, gives PzII, more hard-attack, more soft-attack, ability to create new PzII tech team, gives ability to create all the PzII variants.
If you don't invade FRA you don't get any FRA tanks for the marder 1 and marder II etc.
Similar for CZE, you don't get the Pz38(t) unless you take CZE.

If you have any ideas please post them, as I'm not set in stone yet. Cheers

EDIT: I am also doing ALL the tanks, so from ww1 as well, and will possibly carry on after ww2?
For the T34 for instance, I want the player to learn how it came about, what techs and tanks preceeded it. So the player learns from playing as well as just playing and not realising why and what he is doing.

Of course if he does not build a BT-7 and have researched Christie suspension, then he cannot get the T-34.

EDIT 2: Think CORE and Iron Cross as examples of what I want to do.
 
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nova .. thank you for taking time to answer ..
I may ask really stupid questions but I am new to DH so please bear with me. I am trying to understand what the tools are. When you say you will have tank regiments on the map, do you mean you will have a "DH division" rated equivalent to a regiment? You refer to the map - are you using a map different from the out-of-the-box map? I have been looking at some of mod files I downloaded. To change a unit during the game to another model via event, can you change the model by command or must you "remove_division" and either "activate_division" or "add_division"? What mod are you using for your base of operations as you work on your new ideas?

Thanks
~H
 
nova .. thank you for taking time to answer ..
I may ask really stupid questions but I am new to DH so please bear with me. I am trying to understand what the tools are. When you say you will have tank regiments on the map, do you mean you will have a "DH division" rated equivalent to a regiment? You refer to the map - are you using a map different from the out-of-the-box map? I have been looking at some of mod files I downloaded. To change a unit during the game to another model via event, can you change the model by command or must you "remove_division" and either "activate_division" or "add_division"? What mod are you using for your base of operations as you work on your new ideas?

Thanks
~H

I suggest you have a look in the db/units folder. Open up the infantry.txt file and see how the different models are created. See the amounts of trucks and armour etc that make up a division, well you simply reduce these from Div size to Brig and Regt size as needed.
There should be some tutorials in the Tech or DH section of the forum? There was a while back before they changed the forum.

In the dh main folder see the Modding Documentation folder. Inside here you will find lots of useful information as regards modding. Everything can be modded. Here, look for the events-txt file and see the commands to create units or change the names of units etc etc.

I'm using the E3 map, look for the E3 map thread in the forum.

I'm just using darkest hour vanilla and modding from that. So it is all new stuff beyond that.

So my mod will have a panzer regiment of tanks, say PzIV. It will behave just like a normal Armour Division in vanilla, but it will be a regiment and have less values in comparision to those of a division.

Hope this helps.
 
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