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The most recent version seems to disable build orders for nations. I played to 1939 danzig and the following countries had the following division count:

Japan 52 total division (other versions they were at 150+ at this point). Likewise Japans lack of divisions basically meant it had stoped expansion in china.

USA is at 4 divisions (no build order from default).

Soviets are at 185, which i think is default.

etc

Many other nations are missing build orders as well.
 
The most recent version seems to disable build orders for nations. I played to 1939 danzig and the following countries had the following division count:

Japan 52 total division (other versions they were at 150+ at this point). Likewise Japans lack of divisions basically meant it had stoped expansion in china.

USA is at 4 divisions (no build order from default).

Soviets are at 185, which i think is default.

etc

Many other nations are missing build orders as well.

I'll look into that but it's extremely puzzling - short of heavy modifying of scenario files and especially AI files, I can't think of something that could influence building divisions. Not in this mod at least, but there may always be some undocumented behavior creeping in.

Anyway, I'll run a hands-off game and post my results later.
 
It all looks great.

During the cold war The US and Soviet (and France, GB and China to an extent) provided technology and gave military equipment to all their allies and "friends".

All of Latin America, western Europe and some countries in Asia was given or bought American equipment. Some of it, like naval vessels, was obsolete in from an American perspective, but was however of great use to the receiver. Some of this giving of military equipment abroad was a part of the marshal plan.

Norway for example, did not produce as good as anything (I can think of) but different types of ammunition during the cold war. Everything, the air force, the navy and the army was American built. Something was bought and something was given for free. The situation was the very same in a lot of "western" countries- all was received from the US.

The situation among the Soviet satellite states (and her ideologic freinds around the globe) was alike. Most military equipment was received from Soviet, or built on the basis of Soviet technology. I suppose you are more familiar with situation in the Eastern Bloc than I am though...

The situation was (and still is) somehow chaotic and unstable from a political perspective in most former colonies. They did however not produce any military equipment themselves and received all directly from The US or Soviet or indirectly from a third-party.

It will probably mean a crapload of work, but a system, or basically more events, to reflect the give away, selling and licensing of technology and equipment from "the masters" to their allies is kind of essential and indeed interesting in a cold war getting hot scenario. Events to cover the marshal plan is also an idea
 
OK, so the sum-up for today:

First of all, great thanks for bestmajor for providing a sizeable batch of photos that make their way into 0.6.3 version! That's exactly what can help me managing all that huge numbers of ministers. As for Khanjian - that's primarily because of some (sometimes very big) simplifications I make not to become bogged down in details:
- elections and nomination generally take place at the beginning of the year and yearly at most; possibly if a guy died halfway through a year, in game he gets bonus time to live;
- in most cases only HoS and HoG are provided, other ministerial posts only if they are already provided in files and even then, with little research;
- individual death dates are not tracked down to disable ministers.
I'd be happy to provide more detail but for now there are many other things to do and it would be best to have some volunteers really knowledgeable on these matters (I cannot account for all the countries and sometimes even making out clear division between leftist and rightist parties is not so easy). So if you have more facts at hands, share them! I plan to make a second run through all the countries once they are complete in this basic way.

And at this point, what vanilla AoD proposes outside typical 1936 setup requires many corrections. Sometimes proposed leaders are not even alive (Armenian one - OK, I know it's tough - died in 1927, the guy is interesting though, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andranik_Ozanian). 1945 setup is not much better. Generations of HoI2/AoD players learned that after WW2 Communist Poland was presided over by "Norbert Barlicki". Not only did he die in 1941, but was a relatively little known Socialist pre-war politician (left-wing radical at most, he wasn't in Communist Party of Poland so why stalinist?). By any means, this guy is the correct choice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolesław_Bierut.

So, step after step at least such things as sorting out presidents/prime ministers needs to be done.

@Hickz:
I was much relieved running a hands-off game and looking how it develops:
1936: SOV 136, GER 40, USA 6, ENG 33, JAP 65
1937: SOV 144, GER 44, USA 8, ENG 38, JAP 100
1938: SOV 169, GER 89, USA 19, ENG 46, JAP 128
1939: SOV 211, GER 166, USA 24, ENG 50, JAP 146
Nothing out of normal (USA and UK don't really shine but it's also to be expected I think). What is interesting is that USA and Japan on 1936-1-1 have more divisions than in your game in 1939 :confused: Does anybody else have similar problems?

One thing that didn't make me happy was unexpected firing of Fate of Chinese Dragon event (maybe that's why you asked me about it :) ). 0.6.4 will have China taken care of above all so it shouldn't be a problem.

@Easy1
As much as I look like a do-everything-through-events guy, I wouldn't like to put everything into them, at least not by design. There's an entry in AI files at least for sharing blueprints:
Code:
tech_sharing = { embargo = { GER ITA JAP SLO HUN } favored = { FRA = 100 CAN = 100 AST = 100 NZL = 100 USA = 100 SAF = 100 BEL = 90 HOL = 90 SPR = 30 POL = 20 CZE = 20 TUR = 10 IRQ = 100 PER = 100 POR = 10 CHI = 10 } prioritized = { 5020 = 100 5030 = 100 5040 = 100 1310 = 100 1320 = 100 1330 = 100 1340 = 100 1350 = 100 1360 = 100 5050 = 100 5060 = 100 5070 = 100 5080 = 100 5090 = 100 5100 = 100 5110 = 100 5120 = 100 5130 = 100 5150 = 100 5180 = 100 4190 = 100 4200 = 100 4210 = 100 1230 = 100 1240 = 100 1250 = 100 2070 = 100 2080 = 100 2090 = 100 2020 = 100 2030 = 100 2040 = 100 2050 = 100 2060 = 100 4220 = 100 4230 = 100 4240 = 100 } }

So I'll try this first. If it's not enough or in special cases there may be a place for events. And it's not necessarily that hard, I already did some automation in similar events repeating for many countries.

Enough for today, I'm uploading 0.6.3 with events ids correction and rudimentary 1945 scenario and will take care of China on the next occasion. Thanks for the input!
 
Bizon said:
First of all, great thanks for bestmajor for providing a sizeable batch of photos that make their way into 0.6.3 version! That's exactly what can help me managing all that huge numbers of ministers.

hi, actually as i have done this work more than one time (Bulgaria, Croatia and Italy are my work in AoD, in AoD 1.02 Germany as well which you can extract easily by searching for the TAG "_ger" in your pics folder; the german CSV, however is only available if you copy it out of the 1.02 version - similar to FIN, which has been made by another user).

just one advice, if i may: try to focus on one country, its less confusing then.

if you need the stuff i have already done for CORE HoI1, Japan (Arm/AoD) or ROM (AoD/Arm) you're of course welcome. nothing is perfect there but in all countries a lot of leaders have been deleted while it is still more than vanilla and no pic uses those L - numbers but "Lastname_Firstname_COUNTRYTAG" (eg Hitler_Adolf_ger - like in hoi1). - stuff is in my signature.

now one comment about the eastern minors (as i think those are really hard to model): i wouldnt take commies for those ones as those would be included in the USSR anyway (honestly i dont have a solution for eg BLR; UKR; AZB; etc, they are either commies or half-german nazis or theres nobody; the commies make no sense, though)

well, again, good luck and keep up the good work!

(i already stated this in nomonhans thread: i think you two should make a coop)

EDIT: for persons etc, i think its worth to check the tech teams mod here in this forum, there are a lot of new persons as TTs in it
 
Bizon,
I was tipped off about your mod and would like to make a request to use some material (with due credit of course!)
Would offer same in exchange
 
Bizon,
I was tipped off about your mod and would like to make a request to use some material (with due credit of course!)
Would offer same in exchange

Sure, while I prepare 1945-1963 events and ministers with making Grand Campaign plays last longer, any use in Cold War mod (I presume you are asking for that) is welcome and in fact intended! You can include them as they are or edit them to your liking.

In return I'd use any researched ministers for the said period. Also if you decide to make changes to the files from my mod, like events, I'd be interested in porting those changes back to NWO mod. It's much possible that some things could be designed better, after all. Anyway, I'll ask first in such a case.

About new release:
I talked about new version this weekend, with China reworked and countries beginning with "C" researched. Well, it's kind of half-done, I was quite busy, so no new ministers this time. But fall of China will be included and as a bonus streamlined and working End of Colonialism events!
 
Bizon,

I was thinking of a way to simulate nationalist/partisan movements in occupied territory once it is taken over by someone, let me know what you think:

Idea:

Basically you set up a random event that has a small chance to fire (say 10 percent every week).

This event sets conditions that if a set of provinces are controlled by the non-partisan/nationalist faction/country then the result is a increase to dissent of the controller country and the partisan activity in the actual set of provinces.

Each time the event fires there should be an option to release the occupied country as an independent country, this independent country should have a negative view of the former controller to set the stage for conflict.

To give a working example of this:
Say the United States overruns the middle eastern countries wholesale, from Turkey all the way to Persia and Oman.

Now as time passes the event fires saying that the nationalist Persian country wishes independence. The US can deny and take a dissent hit followed by increases in partisan activity in the Persian area.
Or
The US can release the Persian country who then has a negative view of the United States.

You can even get fancier by allowing different options for the controller country, from set up puppet (that still has to deal with the dissent event itself), to anti-partisan operations (which mabey cost some resources of some kind).

I think this system could work really well as a way to sort of mold the post-WW2 game so that the world has a more varied amount of countries and seems more active, It would also give players who "paint the world grey/red/blue/etc" a pretty historical handicap to prevent such a huge domination of territory.

Anyway Let me know what you think...
 
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Bizon,
Thank you for your cooperation offer. When you get to the I's you can make use of my Israel minister and tech team files. They are pretty complete. I have a friend working on China files, and when he's done I'll compare and share. another friend is working on USA ministers. N Vietnam, S Vietnam, Laos, Lao PDR, and Kampuchea are done. Would you care to make use of my revolter selections? I'll take a look at your events when I have more time.
 
Hickz,

Yes, it's seems like a good idea to code. I'll certainly think about this at some point as it could realistically take care of ahistorical situations where some countries are "liberated" (that means - a country is beaten and annexed) and should be granted their independence back. It's up to be decided (maybe randomized?) if with friendly or hostile government (releasing can be seen as an act of benevolence and lead to good relations OR as giving in under pressure of unfriendly rebels who take control of situation).

However, it's not that easy or otherwise I would probably implement in at least partially in Europe. To me, the only realistic way of triggering those events is to make them happen to the controller of capital province (=offer/pressure to release Portugal should happen to the owner of Lisbon as long as Portugal doesn't exist), without "country=tag" specified in the body of the event. This way we could have around 150 events or event sets (surely doable), not more than 20000 for combination of every two countries where one would be a controller and another a revolter.

1. Now, from my experience when making European surrender events, I was unable to give "independence" command in such events (without tag of country granting independence set in stone). Don't know why, it didn't work. I suppose I should report this and I'll surely do that soon, when I try this again to make sure it's not my fault. For now, this seems not to be an option.
2. Some commands - at least granting military access (which I would like to have not to let country granting independence cutting out its troops) - must be done in an event happening to the released country. Now in this event that country cannot really assess to which country should grant this access (I have to write specific tag).
3. For quite a time I was unaware of command giving revolt risk in specific province - so I would be forced to give general dissent. Thankfully, I discovered an undocumented "province_revoltrisk" command (it's documented as trigger but not a command).

Really, only the first problem is a gamebreaker (the second issue could be resolved by forcing a puppet status on a released country but then maybe we don't want them to be necessarily puppets?). With proper triggers it should bring a lot of realism even to ahistorical setups.
 
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Bizon,
Thank you for your cooperation offer. When you get to the I's you can make use of my Israel minister and tech team files. They are pretty complete. I have a friend working on China files, and when he's done I'll compare and share. another friend is working on USA ministers. N Vietnam, S Vietnam, Laos, Lao PDR, and Kampuchea are done. Would you care to make use of my revolter selections? I'll take a look at your events when I have more time.

As I'm still some kind of a one-man army I didn't yet have to amass large amount of information about ministers - here you probably are more advanced here. But some events from NWO could be useful and their count grows.

Surely, I'll take a look at revolters in your mod, many thanks!
 
Hickz,


However, it's not that easy or otherwise I would probably implement in at least partially in Europe. To me, the only realistic way of triggering those events is to make them happen to the controller of capital province (=offer/pressure to release Portugal should happen to the owner of Lisbon as long as Portugal doesn't exist), without "country=tag" specified in the body of the event. This way we could have around 150 events or event sets (surely doable), not more than 20000 for combination of every two countries where one would be a controller and another a revolter.

That seems like a more reasonable set up given the sheer amount of events needed for proper simulation. I am not familiar with the constraints of the code itself but can it account for a differentiated ownership of provinces?

I mean if say Soviet Union and Germany take over parts of Poland, and Germany decides to release the puppet because of partisan activity, would this not rip the territory from the soviets? And if it did not is that an acceptable compromise (the compromise being you only release what you have conquered). Or would it in fact rip the territory?

Its sorta an interesting dilemma given those constraints.


Really, only the first problem is a gamebreaker (the second issue could be resolved by forcing a puppet status on a released country but then maybe we don't want them to be necessarily puppets?). With proper triggers it should bring a lot of realism even to ahistorical setups.

I think that puppets does not really change the gameplay would be my only comment. Contextually I think the independence rather then puppetry of a country is an important distinction to the player. I am not sure how that distinction translates into actual game-play differentiation though.
 
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That seems like a more reasonable set up given the sheer amount of events needed for proper simulation. I am not familiar with the constraints of the code itself but can it account for a differentiated ownership of provinces?

I mean if say Soviet Union and Germany take over parts of Poland, and Germany decides to release the puppet because of partisan activity, would this not rip the territory from the soviets? And if it did not is that an acceptable compromise (the compromise being you only release what you have conquered). Or would it in fact rip the territory?

By default, the territory will remain divided and the Soviet possession won't automatically join Poland. I thought about a couple of approaches in such situations in surrender events and it's certainly not easy, and not always because of specific code constraints but generally variety of possibilities:

1. The first approach is to let the country be unified. It should be possible to have following trigger (note: should, I have limited faith in events without specified country receiving the event):
Code:
trigger = {
	OR = {
		owned = POLISHPROV1
		owned = POLISHPROV2
		owned = POLISHPROV3
	}
	exists = POL
}
firing for every other country holding any Polish province. With command to secede all the Polish provinces to newly independent Poland. This seems mostly possibile and this is used in current German surrender system. I personally like this system because the rest of the land, held by the second country, is not artificially left out, possibly in the middle of other independent states, which nobody can do much about. I know it's not the best approach, it's not really fair ("the winner takes it all"), but it's:
a) easiest to code,
b) works great with smaller countries where taking the capital is almost like conquering the whole country,
c) lets form a very clear-looking map, no countries "ripped" apart.

2. It would be more interesting to have possibility to grant independence to two different regimes. Democratic country could release "Republic of Poland", communist country could release "People's Republic of Poland", from the lands they currently possess.
Problem 1: What if there is more than two countries occupying the Polish provinces? What if both are democratic/communist? (This could be helped by having all democratic countries secede provinces in question to its "representantive" - USA, communist to Soviet Union before deciding; not most elegant, a bit problematic but that's how it works with German surrender)
Problem 2: What if one country holds only one (two? three?) worthless province which wouldn't realistically support a separate regime? (I tackled this with releasing both German states: each regime can be based in Berlin, Koeln or Muenchen, otherwise all the Germany is unified under holder of the capital city).
Problem 3: If we don't create a separate state out of this small strip of land, maybe it shouldn't go to the owner of capital (different ideology, hardly our friend) but remain in our hands (will we support it militarily, will it look realistic in the middle of nowhere?) or join country of our bloc (but which one, how to assess?)?
Problem 4: We need two tags for two different countries, with all the basic data in (it's viable; World in Flames came up with Socialist Republic of France for this purpose). But it's quite a lot of work. For Europe alone it means ca. 30 new countries.
Problem 5: It bothers some people (me as well) and is OK for other: if countries are divided along the frontline, the border may look quite crazy. Sometimes with possessions fragmented here and there which are hard (especially for the AI) to man and defend properly and for the young state to transport supplies correctly.

3. An even more intricate system (I used it for Korea) is a variation of the point above but involves firstly analysing ownership of key provinces, then ceding areas around those in bulk to the respective key provinces owners. And then they grant independence to different regimes. Let's say that Germany is divided into parts: if one country holds Muenchen and Berlin but not Koeln it receives the whole of Bavaria and East Germany and gives up the rest (with a view to releasing an independent German states from these lands). On the plus side is making sure that there is enough power base for a regime to be founded, it is reasonably fair (not only holding the capital counts) and the borders won't go completely crazy. The problem is amount of coding, setting flags and again - you have to prepare two different tags for two regimes.

For me the third approach has the best of both worlds but it also involves a lot of work (possibly far too much to make it for all the countries). But as you see, not only coding is problematic but creating a concept of the whole system creates many traps and problems. I'll return to these thoughts when preparing the said system and probably make corrections to the current surrender logic as well. :)
 
Bizon,
Since you're doing the C's you can code events for minister changes for Cuba through 1958 (before Castro takes over), and insert any ministers that may be needed. Version 0.15 has a Cuba file so you can just add to it. BTW have a series of events to simulate the Cuban Revolution. To make use of that you'll have to add UA4 as "July 26 movement". Its members are done.
 
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Such an interesting read!

Thanks for the explanation and thoughts.


I do think the third option is by far the best of the choices. Of course that might be considered wishful thinking since your the only coder right now working on it and it does sound like a super big project.

The first choice would I think be "ok" but it certainly creates some gamey game-play for players who gun for the capital of a country so they can release the eventual puppet/independent country and rip territory from everyone else. I also think that ends up being a sorta ahistorical and even illogical course of events given the political context of the time. (I mean the actual historical example of a country being dominated by different powers is Germany which got split between soviet/us/UK/france powers. Although it did form only two actual governments).

I digress.

Again love the work so far, ill be starting a new game with the new version up soon, almost finished with the earlier version.
 
Thanks for the thoughts! I'm almost finished with the new batch of ministers and subsequent events. But the next two days I'll be away from home (it's summer here, after all) so I'll complete it in the weekend, Cuba included.

What slowed me down were cosiderations about decolonization process - something I wish to do perfect from the very beginning not to redo it later. My first, barely implemented, system meant forced independence of colonial countries with possible war or not afterwards - something which many players understandably wouldn't appreciate. I'll strive rather towards Hickz' ideas of making a nuisance out of a region because of revolt risk. Still I try out possible ideas to recreate various scenarios where the player will want to try historical way:
- a country generating huge revolt risk but for some reason important to keep (Algeria),
- a country generating minimal revolt risk but anyway is let free,
- countries experiencing long period of rising self-rule before total independence (Indochina in general),
- countries in state of ongoing revolt but usually still under colonial control (Angola).
 
Bizon,
I already have some of your problems solved regarding independence in the Cold War mod. Some of the major countries that used to be part of the British Empire have revolt events coded. Indonesia is an unusual case requiring staged events. Algeria will need to be coded as a proxy war. The rest of the events should in my opinion be coded as automatic, given certain conditions. Once you get India, Burma, Egypt, Jordan and Palestine/Israel, the rest of the British events should be automatic on their assigned date with no right to say no. The French passed a law establishing Overseas Departments, which I have coded as granting France cores on many overseas areas. They still need to give Vanuatu independence on its assigned day. As for Indochina, they actually tried to create a puppet Indochina Union which fell apart. That is coded as the state of Indochina, with that breaking up as Laos and Cambodia secede. The First Indochina War is not specifically included but there is a Dienbienphu event leading to the historical partition of the country. This happens if Communist China is on the border (they gave the Viet Minh critical weapons). Otherwise (let's say the Nationalists win the Chinese Civil War) Diem stages a coup in 56 with the whole country changing the tag from Indochina to Vietnam, and that's the end of it--no Second Indochina War. The Second Indochina War is a special case requiring its own scripted events and I haven't gotten to it. So if I were you I'd just go ahead and code the minor independence events as automatic. The Portuguese colonies were a special case, resulting in a long term colonial war (no need to code this--they didn't become independent until the 1970s and only because of a military coup in Portugal). In Angola this became somewhat hairy and the only reasonable thing is to have two countries form, Angola and UNITA. Belgium should get multiple revolt events if they do not let go of the Congo.
 
You may guess that independence events for colonial countries give me a headache especially as I strive to get a good generic solution which I could personalize to each country (sometimes by giving additional options, sometimes just by altering event descriptions).

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...ZFWWZuRHc&hl=pl&single=true&gid=0&output=html --> Under this address is the most recent approach - colonial empires, usually in the 1950s - will start to receive nasty events enticing them to release their possessions (some of them are going to be more costly to keep, some more peaceful). Giving +10 revoltrisk in colonial provs as it is now is probably far too much but I liked to make it strong to test it. One thing I fear is that provinces under control of partisans are not given to newly released states. Either I'll find a way to give control back from them or change those events.

So currently countries can become independent either by staying under control of partisans long enough or by proper choice in events. If they are granted puppet status (self-rule) it usually means agreeing to the full transfer of power later - breaking this process results in war (low chance for AI to go that way though). In any case wars with post-colonial countries do not involve allies.

Countries like Algeria, Indochina, India, Israel will probably need some further alterations but the general rule should stay the same. Vietnam will need a lot of love to cover all the possibilities but I'll have to read more on that :)

At some point I'll probably think about all abortive attempts of larger unions - you mentioned Indochina, I could throw here Mali Federation as well. Malaysia is another case because it succeeded.

One thing I'm reluctant to do is to introduce new revolters for political factions - like in Angola. Or I might do that if everything else is accomplished. Firstly, it's not the primary aim of this mod to simulate this so closely, secondly in smaller countries such wars are hard to simulate properly. I'd rather go with revolts triggered by events which, if successful (rebels take capital city), change government.