Make Vassal Degrees of Freedom Be Determined by the De Facto Liege's Laws, Please

[Nick B II]

Bloody Sabor of Krizevci happend on THIS DAY! And Croatian national television had a documentary about it.
Sigismund got away with it. There was an immediate reaction from Croatian army just outside of Krizevci but his army fought long enough so bitch got away, then his army followed in suit. He basically conquered our land threw wholesale elimination of our nobility. That is not just assassination, he broke law his word and never had any justification about it. Later his army returned in strenght and easily conquered our leaderless people. Nobody did anything like that in our history!

He got away with it, he was in a regency war, he remained in a regency war, he basically won that war because of this.
Every action has SOME reaction. Just because there was a reaction doesn't mean he didn't get away with it.
You don't have logic son.

Ah ad hominem. And illogical accusations of illogic. "Getting away with it" by definition means no reactions. That's kinda the entire point.

Also nationalistic history. The bloody sabor was not what conquered Croatia. The invitation of the Hungarian King to take the Croatian throne did that three centuries earlier.

Yes those rulers really crossed the line by not asking their subject tax or requireing them not to slaughter one another... that's really pushing it. :rofl:

Give us all examples of a count in a realm ruled by an independant ruler who paid 30% tax to him although all other vassals paid less or nothing AND his ruler didn't ask that tax, but he did it persistently anyhow just because Byzantine law is like that. GIVE US AN EXAMPLE

Not Byzantine, but hey. The King of Scotland had very little control over his nobles in Scotland. However he was English Earl of Huntington, and his vassals there freely gave him much higher taxes then his Scots vassals did.

Moreover it would really behoove the guy whose calling people illogical if he'd read the posts of his opponents. I've never said BYZA's de jure borders make sense. If you asked to change those I won't argue with you.

But you have chosen to focus on a side-effect of Paradox's decision to make BYZA huge, which has led you to demand feature changes that will break the game in both France and the British Isles because so many of them include land in different kingdoms that has to obey different Crown Laws.

Nick

 

[Keanon]

I don't always agree with Nick, but he is easily the one with the best arguments and the most logical responses(Even when I disagree with him.), insulting him is only discrediting yourself.

 

[unmerged(382585)]

Ah ad hominem. And illogical accusations of illogic. "Getting away with it" by definition means no reactions. That's kinda the entire point.

Also nationalistic history. The bloody sabor was not what conquered Croatia. The invitation of the Hungarian King to take the Croatian throne did that three centuries earlier.

Not Byzantine, but hey. The King of Scotland had very little control over his nobles in Scotland. However he was English Earl of Huntington, and his vassals there freely gave him much higher taxes then his Scots vassals did.

Moreover it would really behoove the guy whose calling people illogical if he'd read the posts of his opponents. I've never said BYZA's de jure borders make sense. If you asked to change those I won't argue with you.

But you have chosen to focus on a side-effect of Paradox's decision to make BYZA huge, which has led you to demand feature changes that will break the game in both France and the British Isles because so many of them include land in different kingdoms that has to obey different Crown Laws.

My ad hominem is a observation I stand by and no insult btw. I debate many socialists for instance who all don't thing logically enough to comprehend for instance that big government makes things work less efficiently. But they are not stupid people, they can always think of something to say back because they got imagination for it.

Ah resorting to semantics... :rofl: How about this, a curtain person was cought in violent action at a curtain parade, (part of a full division mustered by local gang) and he was put in a prison for one night, later at trial it was revealed that policeman who cought him misplaced evidence so he was released. You wouldn't say that is getting away with it?
Since Croatian nobility swore loyalty to another liege, thus taking of Croatia by s. can be interpreted as outright conquest.

You don't read what I say.
I said that it's acceptable for the starting situation to include that, but the game should give an option to change (erase) those de jure borders or their effect like there is in RL. Either a time period of transition or ANYTHING! It isn't realistic that those 'traditions' ain't changable by any means that's ridiculous.

 

[jpr123]

I don't always agree with Nick, but he is easily the one with the best arguments and the most logical responses(Even when I disagree with him.), insulting him is only discrediting yourself.

Agreed, I don't think I've ever seen Nick lose an argument on this forum and he certainly knows his history.

OT: I like how the de jure system works at the moment. It reminds me this isn't just a sandbox game where I can run about doing as I please, but a historical simulation, where I have to follow the laws just like medieval rulers would have had to do, even if it isn't 100% accurate and very simplified. Yes it can be frustrating when it messes up my plans, but at the end of the day its another nice obstacle to prevent you from just painting the map your colour. My only gripe is that de jure borders aren't dynamic, and I'd rather see them changing if you have owned land that directly borders your de jure title and you've owned them for 100+ years or so.

 

[unmerged(382585)]

My only gripe is that de jure borders aren't dynamic, and I'd rather see them changing if you have owned land that directly borders your de jure title and you've owned them for 100+ years or so.

You don't read what I say.
I said that it's acceptable for the starting situation to include that, but the game should give an option to change (erase) those de jure borders or their effect like there is in RL. Either a time period of transition or ANYTHING! It isn't realistic that those 'traditions' ain't changable by any means that's ridiculous.

 

[jpr123]

Admittedly I just skimmed through the posts

I'm not really sure what your arguing about then..

 

[barny]

The Crown Authority is completely stupid. Now I have to play a Duke in a HRE that is an absolute monarchy and all of the other dukes are okay with it, because the malus on that is a joke. :angry: